All-Time Top 20 Position Peaks: Small Forward

[penbeast0]

Tmac is a SF now?

And durant is clearly better then Scottie

TMac had seasons at both SF and SG; look at the other wings he was primarily playing with to determine what he was in a particular season since this is about 1 season peaks.

[Notanoob]

Hill and Pippen were great players who made everyone around them better Dr. j and Durant didn't have that effect they were great scorers but didn't have nearly the overall effect that Hill, Pippen and Hondo had. Where ever you rate Durant, King should be rated along side him they are virtually the same player.

Ahhh, ok, you're trolling. Got it.

Ahhh, so anyone who doesn't rate Durant as high as you do is trolling. Got it.

I think he decided that you were a troll when you called King an identical player to Durant. That's just...come on. Durant is a better player now than King ever was.

Personally though?
1. LeBron James
2. Larry Bird
3. Julius Erving
4. Elgin Baylor
5. Grant Hill
6. Scottie Pippen
7. Tracy McGrady (I honestly consider him a SG)
8. Rick Barry
9. John Havlicek
10. Dominique Wilkins

[D Nice]

Marion and Kirilenko are good borderline choices, I may be inclined to replace Peja with Andre, I've called him a GOAT-level utility player myself. And as for KD (and current players in general) I see no problem with assessing them in a historical context as long as the analysis is restricted to what has occurred, which in Durant's case I haven't seen people have too much of a problem with (in this particular thread).

[NaturalThunder]

Ahhh, ok, you're trolling. Got it.

Ahhh, so anyone who doesn't rate Durant as high as you do is trolling. Got it.

I think he decided that you were a troll when you called King an identical player to Durant. That's just...come on. Durant is a better player now than King ever was.

Personally though?
1. LeBron James
2. Larry Bird
3. Julius Erving
4. Elgin Baylor
5. Grant Hill
6. Scottie Pippen
7. Tracy McGrady (I honestly consider him a SG)
8. Rick Barry
9. John Havlicek
10. Dominique Wilkins

That, and the notion that Durant and Dr. J don't make their teammates better were my two biggest gripes. Are either one great or elite playmakers? No, but that' doesn't mean they weren't decent at it to some degree. I can't really speak on Dr. J, but Durant is a very willing passer, too. And the attention he draws on the offensive end alone makes his teammates better. But (and someone already said this) he's also an elite, supremely efficient scorer who can score at a high volume by playing off the ball. In some team settings, depending on the rest of the roster, having someone like that who can primarily play off the ball and still score 28-30 a night, can be very valuable.

[Wizenheimer]

I'd agree that Durant is pretty good right now...high up on the list. Not sure about top-5 though...yet

if you happen to believe that defense is rather important, Then Pippen should be higher up on the lists. I mean, in one of his peak seasons he was really close to averaging 22 points, 9 rebounds 6 assists, and 3 steals. And not too many SF's can point to being a main cog in 6 championships

there was nearly a 2 year period when Bernard King was essentially unstoppable. He wasn't that good on defense though

[fatlever]

quick glance...

i would like to see some context behind the stats. mcgrady putting up great numbers on a team getting knocked out of the 1st round each year moves him down. conversely guys like pippen and havlicek putting up lesser stats on championship level teams, while playing elite defense is more impressive to me.

move tmac way down, move pippen and havlicek up, move hill down slightly, move king up slightly.

perhaps more like
1. lebron
2. bird
3. baylor
4. erving
5. barry
6. havlicek
7. pippen
8. durant
9. mcgrady
10. hill
11. king
12. mullin
13. wilkins
14. pierce

also, we need some clarification on billy cunningham. if you consider him a small forward, then he should be close to the top 10. if you consider him a power forward, well, hopefully we will see him properly ranked in the next thread.

[sixerswillrule]

I think peak Kirilenko was CLEARLY better than peak Stojakovic (both in 2004).

Stojakovic got more attention that year, because he was lighting it up from downtown and was 2nd in the league in scoring and his team won a ton of games...but that supporting cast was awesome, and offensively...Stojakovic was basically a 6'9", poor man's version of Ray Allen. He was never THAT great of a player, just a phenomenal shooter. Compare that to what Kirilenko did in 2004, leading a Jazz team that people thought would be terrible to a .500 record in a ridiculously stacked Western Conference, while being a DPOY-caliber player from the SF position, while being a great offensive player through his slashing, finishing, and passing ability...no question I'd rather have peak Kirilenko over peak Stojakovic.

Kirilenko actually played PF that season.

[CaliBullsFan]

Ahhh, so anyone who doesn't rate Durant as high as you do is trolling. Got it.

No, saying he and Bernard King are essentially the same player, or that Durant and Dr. J didn't make everyone around them better is why I say that.

King worked more inside, played less defense, and was generally a much more me first player both in game and personality than Durant. Durant also has much better size though King was more aggressive.

Both King and Durant were amazing scorers(Durant more outside, King almost exclusively mid-range) who could get ridiculously hot. What separates them from say Carmelo Anthony is they are able to score in the flow of the game, not needing to hold the ball before they make a move. Scoring is 90% of their contributions unlike Hill, Pippen and Hondo who's contribution maybe 50% scoring

[D Nice]

I guess Billy Cunningham should be on this list. His game was always more PF-oriented to me but I guess when you play next to two centers and are 6'5 you're technically the SF. I'll insert him. Also going to move Scottie ahead of Hill.

[Illhavethelary]

My top 10

Bron
Bird
Dr. J
Durant
McGrady
King
Baylor
Pippen
Barry
Hill

[ThunderDan9]

1. Bird
2. James
3. Erving
4. Durant
5. Barry
6. Baylor
7. King
8. Hill
9. Pippen
10.Havlicek

I consider T-Mac a SG, so he is not included.

[penbeast0]

quick glance...

i would like to see some context behind the stats. mcgrady putting up great numbers on a team getting knocked out of the 1st round each year moves him down. conversely guys like pippen and havlicek putting up lesser stats on championship level teams, while playing elite defense is more impressive to me.

move tmac way down, move pippen and havlicek up, move hill down slightly, move king up slightly.

perhaps more like
1. lebron
2. bird
3. baylor
4. erving
5. barry
6. havlicek
7. pippen
8. durant
9. mcgrady
10. hill
11. king
12. mullin
13. wilkins
14. pierce

also, we need some clarification on billy cunningham. if you consider him a small forward, then he should be close to the top 10. if you consider him a power forward, well, hopefully we will see him properly ranked in the next thread.

Again, like with Tmac, what peak year are you talking about. If it is ABA MVP year, he was playing mainly PF with Caldwell playing SF; if it is his best years with Philly, by then he was mainly the SF next to Jim Washington or Bill Bridges though he would move to PF at times. I don't think any year but 73 is going to compete for top 20 peak though. He was good, tough, and multi-skilled but not a particularly efficient scorer or particularly outstanding defender nor was he elite as a rebounder or playmaker. Just a guy who was pretty good at everything with good physical tools who worked hard. Love guys like him but not up to Shawn Marion in 2006, even in the NBA he never surpassed Chet Walker's Chicago peak as Chet's defense was better.

[Swagalicious]

I don't think people realize just how special Durant is.

Scoring at his volume and his efficiency, WHILE playing off-ball, but also being capable of playing on-ball and creating for himself, WHILE being a secondary playmaker, WHILE being an elite rebounder for his position, WHILE being a positive impact defender...is not something that can be swept aside. It's absolutely making his teammates better.

Durant just had a season where he scored near 30 ppg on 65% TS. That's prime Charles Barkley territory.

KD making teammates better is a myth. Because his scoring rarely draws defensive attention (this is not a knock, it's just the way he gets his points - off ball) and he sucks dick as a playmaker unless you want him averaging 5 TO, his impact on the offensive side of the floor is actually lower than what his numbers suggest. His entire supporting cast was shut down pretty badly vs Memphis.

[NaturalThunder]

KD making teammates better is a myth. Because his scoring rarely draws defensive attention (this is not a knock, it's just the way he gets his points - off ball) and he sucks dick as a playmaker unless you want him averaging 5 TO, his impact on the offensive side of the floor is actually lower than what his numbers suggest. His entire supporting cast was shut down pretty badly vs Memphis.

Really?

[Gregoire]

1.Lebron
2.Bird
3.TMac
4.Doctor
5.Hill
6.Baylor
7.Pippen

[Warspite]

The reason DrJ is #1 is because not only did he lead the league in scoring but he was the best defensive player as well. The GOAT shot blocking SF. He could anchor your defense and be the weak side shotblocker.

Birds peak could have been better but Magic and MJ were so inferior that he wasnt challenged by them and starting doing things like only shooting left handed or with his eyes closed.

[NaturalThunder]

KD making teammates better is a myth. Because his scoring rarely draws defensive attention (this is not a knock, it's just the way he gets his points - off ball) and he sucks dick as a playmaker unless you want him averaging 5 TO, his impact on the offensive side of the floor is actually lower than what his numbers suggest. His entire supporting cast was shut down pretty badly vs Memphis.

I just wanted to actually hit on the stupidity of this post instead of a snarky one-word response.

I can tell by just the first line of the post that you either don't watch OKC games period, or you halfheartedly watch 10-15 of the 20+ OKC games that are nationally televised, see Durant not drawing attention off the ball in 3-5 of them, and come to the conclusion that that's the norm. I also know there's no way you watched the playoffs this year and come to the conclusion that the way Durant scored his points wasn't drawing extra defensive attention even when he didn't have the ball in his hands, because he almost always had two players glued to him or an extra defender shaded towards him.

And he certainly doesn't "suck dick" as a playmaker. Is he great at it? No, but he's adequate and improving. Sure, he averaged more turnovers in the playoffs after Westbrook went down trying to assume the primary facilitator role, but his actual TOV% increased by 0.2% from the regular season; his TOV% was 13.7% in the regular season and 13.9% in the 9 playoff games without Westbrook. But, even if he wasn't a half-decent passer/playmaker, he'd still be better than "sucks dick" because he's a willing passer. He's a guy who can drop 30+ in his sleep on unbelievable efficiency, but he's not a constant ball-stopper. He's actually willing to get his teammates involved which, in and of itself, is very valuable. He makes a conscious effort to get his teammates involved. He understands the importance of building their confidence, especially during these weeks they won't have Westbrook. Could he shoot 22-25 times a game and average 30+ PPG? Sure, but he willingly and actively involves his teammates because he understands how important it is for them to be confident in their abilities, especially come playoff time.


I can't tell if you're just blindly and irrationally hating Durant for whatever reasons, or if you're just trolling to see who you can annoy. Either way, judging by this post, it's pretty obvious you don't actually watch OKC games.

[ShaqAttack3234]

TMac had seasons at both SF and SG; look at the other wings he was primarily playing with to determine what he was in a particular season since this is about 1 season peaks.

Yeah, the SG/SF positions were pretty interchangeable. Pierce played a lot of 2, and Vince Carter played a lot of 3 to name a couple of examples. That said, T-Mac is a shooting guard to me since he played that position more, including during his peak in 2003. He played more SF his first season in Houston, though.

[trex_8063]

1. Lebron James
2. Larry Bird
3. Elgin Baylor
4. Kevin Durant
5. Julius Erving (early 80's)
6. Rick Barry ('67 and mid-70's both amazing; wonder what he'd have done in late 60's in NBA.....)
7. Grant Hill (around '97-99)
8. Scottie Pippen (mid 90's)
9. John Havlicek (early 70's; super-close to Pippen, imo; pretty much inter-changeable)
10. Paul Arizin
11. Bernard King (like 1985 just before his injury, obv)
12. Adrian Dantley (all thru early 80's; very poor defender, I know, but avg >30 ppg on >62% TS% for 4 consecutive years)
13. Dominique Wilkins (circa 1990)
14. Carmelo Anthony (2013)
15. Paul Pierce
16. Alex English (circa 1983)
17. Chris Mullin (circa 1990)
18-20. jeez, I can't decide....pick three of: Mark Aguirre, Shawn Marion ('06), Connie Hawkins, James Worthy, Peja Stojakovic ('06), Chet Walker ('72), John Drew, or Andrei Kirilenko (circa 2005).

Both Marion and Kirilenko clearly function better as a "Robin", AND generally not first-option scorers (sometimes not even 2nd-option)--->which kinda makes me think they should be left out. otoh, they had some CRAZY productive years in the mid-2000's. Whoever is left out are my honorable mentions.

[AdagioPace]

2014/2017 Durant should replace 2013 Durant , 2017 Kawhi enters the competition, ...
not much else in the last few years.

all-star caliber players like Hayward, Paul George don't move the needle even though I would think about some version of PG over Melo