LAL - PHI - ORL

[Karmaloop]

I don't think the trade gets done without Orlando. Clarkson the third most valuable piece in the trade and Kelly probably has negative value. Lakers fans should stop including him in offers.

I swear these forum hyperboles are going to be the death of me.

Ryan Kelly isn't a negative value, if anything he's a neutral value. He's not a negative value because he's not a toxic contract or a toxic person. He's an expiring contract, and a big body. At the end of the day, he's a salary filler which unless you're going to call like 100 other players like him negative value as well.

And Clarkson being the 3rd most valuable piece is debatable at best. As big a fan of Hezonja as I am, he's been underwhelming this year. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, it's just there's a bigger learning curve than I think most people thought there would be. He hasn't shot the ball very well, and he hasn't really found a way to impact the game in other ways. He hasn't been great at limiting turnovers, and he's not doing the little stuff either yet. At this point, we have a pretty good idea of what Nerlens Noel is and there's value in what he is. Not insane value, but still significant of value. Clarkson, on the other hand, has shown an expansive game averaging 15/3/2 shooting efficiently despite playing in a horrible rotation under Byron Scott.

[HornetJail]

What the hell... Philly gets annihilated in this deal. This is awful

[Spens1]

Absolutely not, Clarkson is one of our better players and is 23, Hezonja hasn't looked great has he now, i like him but not for Clarkson, Russell or Randle (which sadly leaves us with not much to offer)

[warren weel im]

Yes please cut the Lakers out of this deal.

[jbk1234]

I don't think the trade gets done without Orlando. Clarkson the third most valuable piece in the trade and Kelly probably has negative value. Lakers fans should stop including him in offers.

I swear these forum hyperboles are going to be the death of me.

Ryan Kelly isn't a negative value, if anything he's a neutral value. He's not a negative value because he's not a toxic contract or a toxic person. He's an expiring contract, and a big body. At the end of the day, he's a salary filler which unless you're going to call like 100 other players like him negative value as well.

And Clarkson being the 3rd most valuable piece is debatable at best. As big a fan of Hezonja as I am, he's been underwhelming this year. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, it's just there's a bigger learning curve than I think most people thought there would be. He hasn't shot the ball very well, and he hasn't really found a way to impact the game in other ways. He hasn't been great at limiting turnovers, and he's not doing the little stuff either yet. At this point, we have a pretty good idea of what Nerlens Noel is and there's value in what he is. Not insane value, but still significant of value. Clarkson, on the other hand, has shown an expansive game averaging 15/3/2 shooting efficiently despite playing in a horrible rotation under Byron Scott.

I wasn't being even remotely hyperbolic.

Ryan Kelly isn't a good basketball player. He can't offer a positive contribution on the court. The fact that his contract is small helps another team accept him as a piece in a trade. But if he wasn't "filler" and you tried to trade him straight up, the other team would want something for taking him.

Clarkson's in the last year of his rookie contract. Hezonja is in his first. Clarkson is the better player now. Hezonja's ceiling is considerably higher. If you were to poll fans of other teams as to which asset they would prefer, it wouldn't be all that close. Teams that needed a PG might prefer Clarkson right now, but everyone else would prefer the guy with the higher ceiling who has the potential to play multiple positions.

[Smitty731]

I wouldn't want to be put in the position of paying or matching an offer for Jordan Clarkson when we've never seen him play meaningful minutes in the NBA. By the time he started playing last year, the Lakers were a mess. They've been a mess from day one this year.

I think Clarkson has a role in the NBA. He's probably a scoring combo guard off the bench for a good team. I don't think he's a starter on a quality team. There isn't anything wrong with that either. I just don't think that is worth all that much in trade.

[LApwnd]

I wouldn't want to be put in the position of paying or matching an offer for Jordan Clarkson when we've never seen him play meaningful minutes in the NBA. By the time he started playing last year, the Lakers were a mess. They've been a mess from day one this year.

I think Clarkson has a role in the NBA. He's probably a scoring combo guard off the bench for a good team. I don't think he's a starter on a quality team. There isn't anything wrong with that either. I just don't think that is worth all that much in trade.

if thats rational to judge players value on bad team, then wouldnt noel value decrease as well?

[Kings2013]

Very generous to Orlando, Hezonja hasn't shown much yet

[gom]

Very generous to Orlando, Hezonja hasn't shown much yet

I'm pretty sure Magic fans are patient enough to wait for him to develop. He has enormous potential. Also, as others have stated, Orlando doesn't need a defensive center. Dewayne Dedmon is a good player and a RFA. They have Vucevic and Dedmon. Why add Nerlens Noel?

[Kings2013]

Very generous to Orlando, Hezonja hasn't shown much yet

I'm pretty sure Magic fans are patient enough to wait for him to develop. He has enormous potential. Also, as others have stated, Orlando doesn't need a defensive center. Dewayne Dedmon is a good player and a RFA. They have Vucevic and Dedmon. Why add Nerlens Noel?

That may be true, just commenting on the value from a neutral. But I may be behind the times when it comes to Noel's value since I watch no Sixers, seems he's losing value

[gom]

Very generous to Orlando, Hezonja hasn't shown much yet

I'm pretty sure Magic fans are patient enough to wait for him to develop. He has enormous potential. Also, as others have stated, Orlando doesn't need a defensive center. Dewayne Dedmon is a good player and a RFA. They have Vucevic and Dedmon. Why add Nerlens Noel?

That may be true, just commenting on the value from a neutral. But I may be behind the times when it comes to Noel's value since I watch no Sixers, seems he's losing value

I don't think that's true at all. He still has excellent value. He's just not a player that Orlando needs. Even though they have Hibbert the Lakers could use him more than Orlando.

This is a more logical trade (just cutting Orlando out) however Noel is a better asset (because of his contract locked in until 2016-7) than Clarkson (locked in only until 2015-6. On the other hand both are RFAs.

Clarkson + remove the 1-3 protection on Lakers pick + 2016 2nd (which is probably in the 31-35 range) for Nerlens Noel?

Philadelphia will probably want a first instead of the high 2nd, but it seems like overpay. Clarkson is a good player.

[LApwnd]

I'm pretty sure Magic fans are patient enough to wait for him to develop. He has enormous potential. Also, as others have stated, Orlando doesn't need a defensive center. Dewayne Dedmon is a good player and a RFA. They have Vucevic and Dedmon. Why add Nerlens Noel?

That may be true, just commenting on the value from a neutral. But I may be behind the times when it comes to Noel's value since I watch no Sixers, seems he's losing value

I don't think that's true at all. He still has excellent value. He's just not a player that Orlando needs. Even though they have Hibbert the Lakers could use him more than Orlando.

This is a more logical trade (just cutting Orlando out) however Noel is a better asset (because of his contract locked in until 2016-7) than Clarkson (locked in only until 2015-6. On the other hand both are RFAs.

Clarkson + remove the 1-3 protection on Lakers pick + 2016 2nd (which is probably in the 31-35 range) for Nerlens Noel?

Philadelphia will probably want a first instead of the high 2nd, but it seems like overpay. Clarkson is a good player.

Who in their right mind would give up a top 3 pick for noel? Id argue hes not evem worth a top 5 pick given his current production this yr. If we didnt owe the pick id only offer a top 6 protected pick and not even include clarkson

[Smitty731]

I wouldn't want to be put in the position of paying or matching an offer for Jordan Clarkson when we've never seen him play meaningful minutes in the NBA. By the time he started playing last year, the Lakers were a mess. They've been a mess from day one this year.

I think Clarkson has a role in the NBA. He's probably a scoring combo guard off the bench for a good team. I don't think he's a starter on a quality team. There isn't anything wrong with that either. I just don't think that is worth all that much in trade.

if thats rational to judge players value on bad team, then wouldnt noel value decrease as well?

I don't think Noel's value is at any crazy height or anything. But it is far easier for a guard who has the ball a lot to put up stats than it is for a big. There is a reason guards dominate All-Star games. They have the ball all the time. Same scenario with a bad team.

NBA history is littered with guards on bad teams putting up good stats. Then the team's, or their own, situation improves from a competitiveness standpoint and the guy all of a sudden isn't good.

Like I've said before, Clarkson is a good player. But he's not a borderline All-Star or anything. Until he proves he can put up stats and play well for a good team, I don't want to be the one committing a bunch of money to him.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Very generous to Orlando, Hezonja hasn't shown much yet

Hasn't shown much in 23 games of his rookie season playing behind Harris/Dipo/Fournier AND Gordon?!

RealGM Logic

[gom]

Clarkson + remove the 1-3 protection on Lakers pick + 2016 2nd (which is probably in the 31-35 range) for Nerlens Noel?

Philadelphia will probably want a first instead of the high 2nd, but it seems like overpay. Clarkson is a good player.

Who in their right mind would give up a top 3 pick for noel? Id argue hes not evem worth a top 5 pick given his current production this yr. If we didnt owe the pick id only offer a top 6 protected pick and not even include clarkson

You gave up the top 3 pick for Steve Nash and the fact that you have to pay it back now when your team is so poor is just a detail. You owe the pick and there's a good chance no matter where you finish that you'll pay it back this year. All this costs is removal of the protection and a high second. It gives you back an asset that you can develop (maybe a better one than you draft) next to Julius Randle who can learn from Hibbert. It also puts D'angelo Russell on the court more (essentially it's him and Marcelinho as your PG.)

[LApwnd]

I wouldn't want to be put in the position of paying or matching an offer for Jordan Clarkson when we've never seen him play meaningful minutes in the NBA. By the time he started playing last year, the Lakers were a mess. They've been a mess from day one this year.

I think Clarkson has a role in the NBA. He's probably a scoring combo guard off the bench for a good team. I don't think he's a starter on a quality team. There isn't anything wrong with that either. I just don't think that is worth all that much in trade.

if thats rational to judge players value on bad team, then wouldnt noel value decrease as well?

I don't think Noel's value is at any crazy height or anything. But it is far easier for a guard who has the ball a lot to put up stats than it is for a big. There is a reason guards dominate All-Star games. They have the ball all the time. Same scenario with a bad team.

NBA history is littered with guards on bad teams putting up good stats. Then the team's, or their own, situation improves from a competitiveness standpoint and the guy all of a sudden isn't good.

Like I've said before, Clarkson is a good player. But he's not a borderline All-Star or anything. Until he proves he can put up stats and play well for a good team, I don't want to be the one committing a bunch of money to him.

he plays with 2 other ball dominant guards in Russell and Kobe and has to contend with shot attempts with Kobe as well and has managed to post similar stats as last year, improved his TS% and his 3pt % fg, while Noel hasn't done anything to show any growth and only way to make him currently appealing is to cherry pick his stat where he plays C without ok4 around at all.

[LApwnd]

Clarkson + remove the 1-3 protection on Lakers pick + 2016 2nd (which is probably in the 31-35 range) for Nerlens Noel?

Philadelphia will probably want a first instead of the high 2nd, but it seems like overpay. Clarkson is a good player.

Who in their right mind would give up a top 3 pick for noel? Id argue hes not evem worth a top 5 pick given his current production this yr. If we didnt owe the pick id only offer a top 6 protected pick and not even include clarkson

You gave up the top 3 pick for Steve Nash and the fact that you have to pay it back now when your team is so poor is just a detail. You owe the pick and there's a good chance no matter where you finish that you'll pay it back this year. All this costs is removal of the protection and a high second. It gives you back an asset that you can develop (maybe a better one than you draft) next to Julius Randle who can learn from Hibbert. It also puts D'angelo Russell on the court more (essentially it's him and Marcelinho as your PG.)

there's a good chance we dont give up the pick and if we do its the 4th one, why would we improve phi odds and give up a valuable player in return for a player who hasn't played well at all this season just because of what he did last year? Clarkson, while not a star or anything at the very least is replicating his success last season regardless of the position he's playing now, unlike Noel who has to use the he's not playing C excuse