Milwaukee/Philadelphia/Denver

[HartfordWhalers]

Bucks fans overrate Jabari Parker so much. He isn't necessary on offense when you have Giannis and his defense is atrocious.

The first comment goes no where useful and comes across as attacking an entire fan base. Don't do that.


If you however, you are free to argue that "Jabari isn't necessary on offense when you have Giannis and his defense is atrocious" without the first part and hopefully it will be a better discussion.

[bryanwithawhy]

No, not trading Jabari for this. Never trading a top prospect along with contracts for less return, that is stupid. Not even close.

1. Jamal Murray will be better than Parker in 3 years.
2. Noel is a beast defensively
3. You have no way of acquiring a legitimate center of point guard with your current cap situation. (Delly, Telly, and Plumlee are terrible contracts.)

[Ron Swanson]

I hope you guys realize that Milwaukee is never seriously trading Parker on his rookie deal. We just have a few incredibly vocal posters who are adamant that Jabari will never be anything more than the love child of Derrick Williams and Shareef Abdur-Rahim. It's a bit embarrassing.

There's absolutely no way I trade Parker for that package, and I really like Jamal Murray.

[buckboy]

Delly and Telly are bad contracts

No. They really aren't.

I would definitely trade Parker in the right deal. I'm on the lower end of Bucks' fans spectrum for him. I wouldn't make this deal though.

I really don't like Murray at all.

[JayMKE]

No, not trading Jabari for this. Never trading a top prospect along with contracts for less return, that is stupid. Not even close.

1. Jamal Murray will be better than Parker in 3 years.
2. Noel is a beast defensively
3. You have no way of acquiring a legitimate center of point guard with your current cap situation. (Delly, Telly, and Plumlee are terrible contracts.)

Good luck with that foresight, I like Noel but I am not giving up Jabari for him, and I disagree we have no way of acquiring a legitimate center or that we need a 'legitimate pg' with Giannis. I am fine with Delly and see no reason to trade him, we're not trading Jabari to dump contracts.

[M-C-G]

No, not trading Jabari for this. Never trading a top prospect along with contracts for less return, that is stupid. Not even close.

1. Jamal Murray will be better than Parker in 3 years.
2. Noel is a beast defensively
3. You have no way of acquiring a legitimate center of point guard with your current cap situation. (Delly, Telly, and Plumlee are terrible contracts.)

Delly and Telly contracts have now moved from bad to terrible contracts? How so?

PG contracts for comparison
Lin 3/36
Bayless 3/27
Augustin 4/29
Dova 4/38
Etuan Moore 4/34
Austin Rivers 3/35

If anything that is a market deal maybe below market depending on your preferences.

Telly 3/30
Powell 4/37
Leuer 4/42
Dudley 3/30
Ryan Anderson 4/80

There is no way you can convince that isn't a market deal at worst.

[bryanwithawhy]

I think it's clear how much Noel is underrated and Jabari is overrated. He is a liability on defense and a redundant fit on offense -- especially when his 3 PT shooting is mediocre.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Delly and Telly are bad contracts

You have to be a pretty damn bad player for a $9m or $10m contract to be "bad" in this cap climate, and Delly and Telly are not pretty damn bad players. The only reason Telly's contract might swing from "average/reasonable" to "not great" is his age and even that's sort of a reach considering he'll probably be the exact same player in 2018-19.

Signing guys like delly and telly who are barely above replacement level players for $10 million is a bad contract. You are burning 10 million on guys who provide very little incremental benefit (compared to minimum level guys).

$10m is bench player money nowadays. You're treating that figure like it's some exorbitant amount when it isn't. I challenge you to put those contracts in context by comparing other similar players with similar contract situations. It's easy to say "you can get those guys for minimum deals!" without having anything to back that notion up.

[bryanwithawhy]

No, not trading Jabari for this. Never trading a top prospect along with contracts for less return, that is stupid. Not even close.

1. Jamal Murray will be better than Parker in 3 years.
2. Noel is a beast defensively
3. You have no way of acquiring a legitimate center of point guard with your current cap situation. (Delly, Telly, and Plumlee are terrible contracts.)

Delly and Telly contracts have now moved from bad to terrible contracts? How so?

PG contracts for comparison
Lin 3/36
Bayless 3/27
Augustin 4/29
Dova 4/38
Etuan Moore 4/34
Austin Rivers 3/35

If anything that is a market deal maybe below market depending on your preferences.

Telly 3/30
Powell 4/37
Leuer 4/42
Dudley 3/30
Ryan Anderson 4/80

There is no way you can convince that isn't a market deal at worst.

Your justification for bad contracts is showing terrible contracts? Last offseason was not the time to enter the free agent market. Too many teams with too much cap space.

[MiltownHawkeye]

1. Jamal Murray will be better than Parker in 3 years.
2. Noel is a beast defensively
3. You have no way of acquiring a legitimate center of point guard with your current cap situation. (Delly, Telly, and Plumlee are terrible contracts.)

Delly and Telly contracts have now moved from bad to terrible contracts? How so?

PG contracts for comparison
Lin 3/36
Bayless 3/27
Augustin 4/29
Dova 4/38
Etuan Moore 4/34
Austin Rivers 3/35

If anything that is a market deal maybe below market depending on your preferences.

Telly 3/30
Powell 4/37
Leuer 4/42
Dudley 3/30
Ryan Anderson 4/80

There is no way you can convince that isn't a market deal at worst.

Your justification for bad contracts is showing terrible contracts? Last offseason was not the time to enter the free agent market. Too many teams with too much cap space.

Okay, so name some better contracts so we can either tell you why those comparisons are bunk. Either that or we'll end up coming to the conclusion that these deals are middle-of-the-road, not "bad" as you're so adamantly arguing.

[M-C-G]

1. Jamal Murray will be better than Parker in 3 years.
2. Noel is a beast defensively
3. You have no way of acquiring a legitimate center of point guard with your current cap situation. (Delly, Telly, and Plumlee are terrible contracts.)

Delly and Telly contracts have now moved from bad to terrible contracts? How so?

PG contracts for comparison
Lin 3/36
Bayless 3/27
Augustin 4/29
Dova 4/38
Etuan Moore 4/34
Austin Rivers 3/35

If anything that is a market deal maybe below market depending on your preferences.

Telly 3/30
Powell 4/37
Leuer 4/42
Dudley 3/30
Ryan Anderson 4/80

There is no way you can convince that isn't a market deal at worst.

Your justification for bad contracts is showing terrible contracts? Last offseason was not the time to enter the free agent market. Too many teams with too much cap space.

No, I am showing you market price, given it is obvious you didn't adjust your expectations to the new cap. What is your justification?

[nomansland]

I always liked Denver/Milwaukee trades. They usually ended up pretty fair for both teams.

Is there any combination of assets that could get Parker to Denver without including Jokic, Murray and Denver's 1st rounder? Willing to take back bad contracts and willing to do up to a 3-for-3 trade.

Gallo
Chandler
Faried
Harris
Nurkic
Memphis 2017 1st
Barton
Hernangomez
Beasley (Malik)
Nelson
Cornelie (Eurostash C- but we know Denver scouts are good at picking Eurostash centers)

[MiltownHawkeye]

I always liked Denver/Milwaukee trades. They usually ended up pretty fair for both teams.

Is there any combination of assets that could get Parker to Denver without including Jokic, Murray and Denver's 1st rounder?

Nah, I think even the biggest Jabari skeptics among us would absolutely require one of those assets back.

[sixerswillrule]

9.6 million per year for Delly from 2017/18 - 2019/20 is equal to about 6 million per year from 2013/14 - 2015/16. I definitely wouldn't call that terrible. That said, I think this is a good deal for the Bucks. Murray/Middleton/Covington/Giannis/Noel is a great, balanced young lineup.

[buckboy]

Referring to Delly as a bad contract shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the Bucks team.

[M-C-G]

Delly and Telly are bad contracts

You have to be a pretty damn bad player for a $9m or $10m contract to be "bad" in this cap climate, and Delly and Telly are not pretty damn bad players. The only reason Telly's contract might swing from "average/reasonable" to "not great" is his age and even that's sort of a reach considering he'll probably be the exact same player in 2018-19.

Signing guys like delly and telly who are barely above replacement level players for $10 million is a bad contract. You are burning 10 million on guys who provide very little incremental benefit (compared to minimum level guys).

A minimum guy that gives you about replacement level player production is an insanely good contract. I think your spectrum is just warped.

When factoring in a contract, you might be the first person that openly dismisses market value when determining if it is good or not. I really don't think I have seen that before. Perhaps you are a savant that is just seeing something 99.9% of others don't or perhaps your really far off base. I know which I think, but I'll try to keep an open mind.

[MrPerfect1]

I think it's clear how much Noel is underrated and Jabari is overrated. He is a liability on defense and a redundant fit on offense -- especially when his 3 PT shooting is mediocre.

Not sure how Jabari is overrated. 19.5/5.6/2.1/1.2 on 54.4 TS% and 35.1 3PT% for a 21 year old in basically his 2nd year
playing is quite good. His turnovers at only 1.6/game is pretty good as well. Yeah, he needs work defensively but also
isn't a complete disaster and has improved some.

Not sure how Jabari is redundant on the Bucks. Him and Giannis fit pretty well together offensively.