Where would 1996 Jordan Rank Today?

[Jjab430]

lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

Why are you bringing 2011 LeBron James into this?

Insecurity.

[Pelly24]

Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line

Space today would make him even more letha on offensel. The more perimeter oriented offense today would make him more lethal on defense. He would be up there as no 1

No it wouldn't because he can't handcheck as much now as he could then and his reduced footspeed would stand out more vs modern NBA athletes than it did in 96 vs depleted post-Expansion pre-international rosters. I do suspect his help defense would be above Danny Green level as a 2 Guard tho

LOL at the bolded. MJ would be by far the most all-around athletic shooting guard, and likely No. 2 most athletic guard in the league as well.

[NbaAllDay]

lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

Why are you bringing 2011 LeBron James into this?

Insecurity.

I love this dude, probably the most insecure 'Jordan stan' on this entire board.
Pops up in any thread related to Jordan and bites at the thought that Jordan is anything but a God.
He could at least try and bit a little bit objective.

Even if you were to concede Jordan as the best player in the 2017-2018 season, he makes it sound like Jordan is better than the next 3 layers combined.

[Trophy Husband]

Probably top 5, dont let 72 wins fool you. He relied heavily on his fadeaway. I don't expect his fg% to be higher than 47 in todays era. Id put him behind lebron, giannis, harden for sure.. toss up between curry, kd, and mj

Sent from my MIX using RealGM mobile app

[Pg81]

lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

Jordan got bested in the first round.

[mysticOscar]

No it wouldn't because he can't handcheck as much now as he could then and his reduced footspeed would stand out more vs modern NBA athletes than it did in 96 vs depleted post-Expansion pre-international rosters

Watch his games in '96. He was extremely quick still that year. Bulls dominated and got to that 72 wins was predominantly built on there defense due to the league moving to perimeter offense from shortened line.

His defensive impact today would be even more emphasised with guards doing predominantly doing the bulk of the scoring rather than front court players.

I'm sure he was but it's also relative to the athleticism of wings in that particular era. I actually think his defensive impact in a vacuum would be higher because MJ in a free safety role would be devastating. But this is not in a vacuum, because he's also being transported to the 2017-18 season; where his perimeter defense wouldn't be as impressive relative to League average due to the competition he's playing against now.

His offense would certainly be far less impactful even if he was on a team with 4 shooters because he's less of a willing passer than someone like LeBron, Harden, or Steph so the defense can easily bait him into taking a substantial number of bad shots. Because that's what he frequently did on those Bulls teams, but the level of team defense in this era is too great for his playstyle to work. Especially because teams would liberally shade guys over to him due to how less threatening of a passer he is. Not to mention his shooting woes would cramp spacing and limit the lineups you can trot out around him in the playoffs much like with Derozan and Westbrook

Which is why I put him on par or below Steph and Harden imo because those guys are having like the best offensive seasons ever.

What a silly argument. Todays league is catered for perimeter. Rules and offensive schemes are catered for high volume perimeter scoring.

The rise of the perimeter scoring is strongly correlated to the rule changes in the mid 00's. We didnt all of a sudden have a crambian explosion of efficient perimeter scorers from 2005 without a cause.

You literally now have rookie perimeters or any guards that are given the ball able to now score 30+ pts today with some efficiency.

[mysticOscar]

I just find it hilarious fans are comparing stats today to stats in the 90s like nothing has changed.

It boggles my mind how naive some ppl are

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833257-michael-jordan-could-he-really-score-50-with-the-hand-check-rules-in-place

[iggymcfrack]

‘96 Jordan was below peak but still pretty close. He’d be behind MVP candidates Harden and LeBron but ahead of the rest of the league. Giannis is the 3rd best player in the league right now and he can’t make 3s either and I definitely wouldn’t want him over MJ in a playoff series.

[iggymcfrack]

I just find it hilarious fans are comparing stats today to stats in the 90s like nothing has changed.

It boggles my mind how naive some ppl are

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833257-michael-jordan-could-he-really-score-50-with-the-hand-check-rules-in-place

I find it hilarious how Jordan stans desperately cling to the hand-checking thing while completely ignoring that illegal defense is at least as big of a factor as not only proven statistically but also stated by no less than Jordan himself.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

[mysticOscar]

I just find it hilarious fans are comparing stats today to stats in the 90s like nothing has changed.

It boggles my mind how naive some ppl are

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833257-michael-jordan-could-he-really-score-50-with-the-hand-check-rules-in-place

I find it hilarious how Jordan stans desperately cling to the hand-checking thing while completely ignoring that illegal defense is at least as big of a factor as not only proven statistically but also stated by no less than Jordan himself.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

Please show me stats that prove getting rid of illegal defense made it more difficult cause i can easily show u the opposite

[iggymcfrack]

I just find it hilarious fans are comparing stats today to stats in the 90s like nothing has changed.

It boggles my mind how naive some ppl are

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833257-michael-jordan-could-he-really-score-50-with-the-hand-check-rules-in-place

I find it hilarious how Jordan stans desperately cling to the hand-checking thing while completely ignoring that illegal defense is at least as big of a factor as not only proven statistically but also stated by no less than Jordan himself.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

Please show me stats that prove getting rid of illegal defense made it more difficult cause i can easily show u the opposite

Average ORtg by year:

1990-91: 107.9
1991-92: 108.2
1992-93: 108.0
1993-94: 106.3
1994-95: 108.5
1995-96: 107.6
1996-97: 106.7
1997-98: 105.0
1998-99: 102.2
1999-00: 104.1
2000-01: 103.0
2001-02: 104.5
2002-03: 103.6
2003-04: 102.9
2004-05: 106.1
2005-06: 106.2
2006-07: 106.5
2007-08: 107.5
2008-09: 108.3

As you can see, when the rules were changed on hand-checking in 99-00 and again in 04-05, they still didn’t have a big enough effect to make the general scoring environment as good for the offense as it was during the Jordan dynasty era. The offensive ratings didn’t begin to reach that level again until players started making 3s at a much higher rate than they did during the 90s.

[r0drig0lac]

Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line

Space today would make him even more letha on offensel. The more perimeter oriented offense today would make him more lethal on defense. He would be up there as no 1

word

[iggymcfrack]

Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line

Space today would make him even more letha on offensel. The more perimeter oriented offense today would make him more lethal on defense. He would be up there as no 1

Competing against more skilled players on offense from a wider player pool would make his offense stand out less and make his defense less effective. Competing against more skilled players on defense would make his defense stand out less and his offense less effective. Like I said, I’d still have him as a Top 3 player in the league but there’s no way that playing in the global era with tons of international superstars would make him more dominant than he was in the 90s.

Players who could bomb 40% from 3 and dish like an elite PG the way Harden and LeBron do didn’t exist in Jordan’s day. It’s not going to be easier to outplay them than it was to outplay Barkley and Malone to be the best in the league.

[Dr Spaceman]

Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line. And much like 18 LeBron isn't peak LeBron but only looks like it due to him playing the optimal position in the smallball era, 96 MJ isn't peak MJ but only looks like it due to playing in the massively watered down late 90s

Watered down late 90s? Was that a joke?

I'd be surprised if Lebron is even top 3 in the 90s, with Jordan, Hakeem, and Shaq, dominating more than anyone in the league today.
Watered down, with handchecking, physicality, and elite big men waiting in the lane?

Anyway, curious - who's number does Lebron wear and why? Who's picture does he have on his phone wallpaper?

Yeah, Hakeem sure was dominant in 98. He and Barkley on the same team- they sure wrecked the league.

[mysticOscar]

I find it hilarious how Jordan stans desperately cling to the hand-checking thing while completely ignoring that illegal defense is at least as big of a factor as not only proven statistically but also stated by no less than Jordan himself.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

Please show me stats that prove getting rid of illegal defense made it more difficult cause i can easily show u the opposite

Average ORtg by year:

1990-91: 107.9
1991-92: 108.2
1992-93: 108.0
1993-94: 106.3
1994-95: 108.5
1995-96: 107.6
1996-97: 106.7
1997-98: 105.0
1998-99: 102.2
1999-00: 104.1
2000-01: 103.0
2001-02: 104.5
2002-03: 103.6
2003-04: 102.9
2004-05: 106.1
2005-06: 106.2
2006-07: 106.5
2007-08: 107.5
2008-09: 108.3

As you can see, when the rules were changed on hand-checking in 99-00 and again in 04-05, they still didn’t have a big enough effect to make the general scoring environment as good for the offense as it was during the Jordan dynasty era. The offensive ratings didn’t begin to reach that level again until players started making 3s at a much higher rate than they did during the 90s.

ORating was higher in the 80s early 90s because scoring was done predominantly more from the post which in turn increases ftr (more free throws due to physicality of trying to score in post) hence higher ORating. Look at ftr throughout the seasons.

The MJ and Bulls influence and the shortening of the 3 pt line accelerated the move to more perimeter oriented offense (the league was trying to replicate Jordan)...watch the effeciency of the league and the scoring dry up when they then took away the shortened 3pt line while teams stuck with high scoring perimeter players. Have a look at players with most shot attempts in early 90s and then compare it to late 90s and early 00s and today.

They got rid of illegal defense in '02 and the effeciency and offensive rating went up (even tho it was trending down). Even tho teams in the league predominantly had perimeter volume scorers already at this stage. The real impact happened when they eliminated completely the handcheck in '05.....everything started to go back up even tho the league has fully shifted to the perimwter.

MJ dominated in an era when it wasnt as perimeter friendly as it is today

MJ was a big boon for the league....the league wanted to create more MJs....the league changes was designed to ensure that happens.....

And u guys think....a league that caters for MJ type of players would make MJ struggle??

[bledredwine]

I just find it hilarious fans are comparing stats today to stats in the 90s like nothing has changed.

It boggles my mind how naive some ppl are

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833257-michael-jordan-could-he-really-score-50-with-the-hand-check-rules-in-place

Yep. It's idiotic. And to the young posters - insecurity about 6 championships 10 scoring titles and 43 playoff records? XD nope, it's just obvious that the PC board has an overwhelming amount of Lebron homers trying to degrade Jordan. You guys keep making threads like "who is better the 3rd best player in the league or michael jordan". Now that is insecure. It's actually pathetic. It was the same in the Kobe days. If Lebron knew how to hit midrange shots and didn't rely on other players in the clutch, maybe I wouldn't mind the comparison. But these threads are stupid. Obviously jordan would be the best player today. Any actual NBA players, coaches or legends would tell you that. And LOL@ stat comparisons. KD>Lebron this last finals

[MisterHibachi]

Jordan's too good a player to have fans this pathetic. It's sad.

[Johnny Firpo]

Anywhere from 1-4 I guess, he would be awesome in this era too, but maybe not as dominant as he was in the 90s. Jordan thrived on ISOs both offensively and defensively, he would have to work far harder today on defense, and on offense as well. Without an elite three point shot, it is hard to imagine him being as dominant, but it is also hard to imagine him being lower than 4th, but really more like 3rd. There is no way Giannis is better, come on guys. It's Lebron, Curry, and MJ in the top 3, not necessarily in that order.

[eminence]

3rd was my gut reaction (LeBron/Curry), waiting a bit on Harden. But much closer to that top level than to anyone behind them.

[Franco]

Top 3, with a really good argument for being number 1.

And saying that Durant outplayed LeBron is:

a) Irrelevant, considering that has nothing to do with 2018 LeBron.
b) Wrong, because LeBron WAS the best player in the Finals last year.