Ainosterhaspie wrote:How is Dennis Rodman not on this list yet? I can't vote, but hopefully someone who can can do the right thing and vote for him.
5x champion.
8x all defensive team
2x DPOY
In the conversation for best rebounder ever.
Key player on perhaps the greatest team ever.
Key player on only team to beat Jordan in three playoff series.
Yes he isn't a scorer, but he is tremendously valuable as a glue guy who can seamlessly integrate with just about any team you may wish to construct, and be a huge part of the team's success. His greatness is in some ways his not being a scorer. He maximizes other areas of the game which are indespensible when it comes to building a championship team.
Rodman does bring a lot of value, in a variety of ways. He'd be reasonable around now, and I don't doubt he'll have serious traction soon. Couple critiques I'd mention wrt to Rodman, though.....
There's a general rhetoric about Rodman that you'll frequently hear spouted: that he provides GOAT-level rebounding
and GOAT-level PF defense. But outside of perhaps 1-2 seasons (circa-1992), that is simply untrue. He otherwise provided
either GOAT-level rebounding
or GOAT-level PF defense.....but not both at the same time.
Many of his "rebound-centric" years came at the expense of defense: he would often give only token contests (if any) to mid-range and outside shots (opting instead to drift toward the rim to be in position to rebound), or even simply leave his man alone as he wandered near the paint area and again move toward the rim when the shot goes up.
This was particularly noticeable [for me, anyway] during part of his time in San Antonio. Not to totally cherry-pick, but his defense in the '95 WCF was, frankly, outright
bad. He was frequently going rogue and leaving Robert Horry alone, not bothering to track him along the perimeter at all, or contest his outside shot. Bear in mind this is one of the years the 3pt line was 22', and Horry was a dangerous 37.9% 3pt% that year; but you'd think it was Andre Roberson out there by the way Rodman ignored him, practically turning Horry into an All-Star for that series: Horry averaged 10.2 ppg @ 55.6% TS (with the 37.9% 3pt% on 3.5 3PA/g) in the rs, with 3.4 apg and 1.9 topg.......in the series against SA (
with Rodman being the primary defender guarding him in the series), Horry averaged 14.5 ppg @ 58.3% TS (despite actually shooting poor at the FT-line), dropping 42.5% on 6.7 3PA/g, with 2.7 apg and just 1.0 topg.
SA lost the series 4-2. They lost game 1 by a single point; with Houston down 93-92, Horry hit a WIDE open 18-footer with 6.5 seconds remaining after Rodman had left him [like literally 5-6 seconds earlier in the play] and made no attempt to recover him after. I did a play-by-play of that game and 1-2 other games in the series (I think one of them was G6) a year or so ago; there were actually quite a few similar defensive possessions for Rodman.
SA lost game 6 by 5 points; Horry scored 22 on 63.5% TS in that one (6 of 11 from trey).
Let me be clear that I'm not trying to paint Rodman as a bad defender. I'm merely pointing out that his good defensive reputation wasn't consistently earned, particularly in those years he was having those GOAT-level rebounding numbers (and in the above instance, his failings occurred at pretty much the worst possible time). SIDE NOTE: I actually think he was probably more valuable on the OFFENSIVE end than the defensive through the late stages of his career (in Chicago and after, possibly in SA, too) due to his offensive rebounding. RAPM supports this, fwiw.
And that series also illustrates another concern which rubs against the statement that he integrates seamlessly with any team. Rodman is an emotional and eccentric guy with more than his share of demons. And in that series he had an unprofessional utter meltdown (again: worst possible time): not coming to team huddles, ignoring coach and teammates, making disdainful gestures to his team, and largely making a public spectacle of his discontent. At that place, at that time, there's no real excuse for it. You're a well-paid professional (or even just a grown-up): act like it.
And there's speculation that without a strong and forceful/vocal leader (Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan [who also came with Phil Jackson--->a proven ego manager]), Rodman carried the potential for similar meltdowns throughout his career.
These are things that may hold him back for some.
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
