RealGM

birdlives_ma wrote:I don't know why some people are concerned with tanking for the 2020 draft when we haven't even had the 2019 lottery yet.

This seems to completely avoid the point...

There is NO elite talent coming by almost anyone's estimation coming out of this draft, with the lone exception according to some being Zion.

If you think Zion is elite, okay. (I don't.) But at least it is reasonable to see not only if you somehow win the #1 pick on your own, but if there might be a deal that can be struck to get him.

And the comment also seems to presume someone is advocating for a trade before the lottery happens. Who, though? Not me. Someone else?

High 5 wrote:For real. That early 2000's wait-til-next-next year vibe creeping back in, haha. And by the way, the 2020 draft is pretty weak too. I like Wiseman, but other than that, it's guards. the wings are meh in my eyes so far.

Well, first, the 2019 draft is what it is, of course. There's no getting around that.

There is, however, a lot of room left for assessing what's coming out in 2020. Far too early to be making those kinds of conclusions. History tells us, as it has even this year, you really have to wait until December and January to be getting a good idea of how much the top talent has developed. So much can happen for a 17 year-old or an 18 year-old or a 19 year-old kid in the space of a year... both here, and internationally.

But again... contrary to the "creeping" comment... judging Schlenk by his own words before and his own actions currently and this new report... he believes Young is elite... and if you believe you already have gained your elite player capable of delivering a championship, then yeah, you go ahead and just collect more pieces.

I'm just not persuaded that Young is that guy. You can be responsible for a lot of offense, and still give up so much on defense that your team loses. NBA history is littered with great scorers and great passers who proved incapable of taking their team to championship contention.

To me, he's an excellent piece, as-is Collins. But you still have to add that one more absolute NBA elite player from somewhere, and by Schlenk's own words, parroting what most of us have tended to believe, the Atlanta NBA franchise must add that player from the draft b/c we're just not blessed with the mystique of a handful of other teams that can attract an elite free agent.

To me, this sounds like we might go out and add a Paul Milsap-like player in free agency.

Sounds great for people who just want to get back into playoff territory, content to exit after the second round. I thought we were doing this, though, because we had decided this was the path to, at least, perennial Eastern Conference championship contention, if not NBA Finals contention.

I hate to think we've just went through what we've just went through, ONLY to get back to WHERE WE WERE when we launched into the tank era. But that seems like what's about to happen.

jayu70 wrote:Even if you have eyes for a top elite FA, you still make your pick.

Few, including Schlenk himself based on what he has said, believe we should expect we can gain an elite FA.

So, yes, you make your pick... if... IF... you believe you can actually obtain what you believe you need, ie, an elite FA.... or, yes, as you said in the following statement...

jayu70 wrote:Even if you think Trae is 'the guy' you still make your pick.

...certainly if you already have your elite talent in Trae, then yes, you go ahead and use your picks.

But if you are, like me, persuaded that Trae is going to be one of the NBA's best point guards over the course of his career, but NOT that elite player capable of putting a team on his back, and winning the hard games necessary to leading the charge to the top...

Then it SERVES NO PURPOSE to use your draft pick ammunition on adding more players who ALSO do not appear likely to be that kind of player.

None. If they expanded the game to be 6 or 7 players on the floor at a time, maybe it would make sense, but if they continue with just 5 on the floor at a time, then NBA history says you have to get that elite guy.

Maybe Schlenk is right to believe Trae is going to live up to the Curry comparisons. But there's little doubt at this point that is, indeed, how he's thinking about it.

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:There is NO elite talent coming by almost anyone's estimation coming out of this draft, with the lone exception according to some being Zion.

1) Zion is considered an elite talent by the vast majority. It's not some fringe idea.

2) The draft isn't that simple. The last 3 MVPs were selected after some crappy players and Giannis is the favorite to win this year. George and Leonard are both in the running. Hell, the way Trae has played lately he may find himself in the MVP discussion down the road. It's not always obvious who the elite talents are.

High 5 wrote:I don't know why some people are concerned with tanking for the 2020 draft when we haven't even had the 2019 lottery yet.

What blows my mind is that people are already writing the 2019 as a weak class. Meanwhile, I see a gang of future NBA players - like high quality contributors. I can probably pick out 10-15 players I know will be at minimum solid NBA players. About 4-5 that I’m pretty sure will make a All Star game.

We have 2 potential chances to pick in the lottery. Why do we need to tank ? The treadmill we were on we had to really hit a homer run at about pick #17-#25.

The idea that we shouldn’t try to pursue the best FAs because we need to lose more does not make sense to me whatsoever.

We’ve got an All NBA caliber prospect in Trae Young and fringe All Star in John Collins.

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

jayu70 wrote:Even if you have eyes for a top elite FA, you still make your pick.

Few, including Schlenk himself based on what he has said, believe we should expect we can gain an elite FA.

So, yes, you make your pick... if... IF... you believe you can actually obtain what you believe you need, ie, an elite FA.... or, yes, as you said in the following statement...

jayu70 wrote:Even if you think Trae is 'the guy' you still make your pick.

...certainly if you already have your elite talent in Trae, then yes, you go ahead and use your picks.

But if you are, like me, persuaded that Trae is going to be one of the NBA's best point guards over the course of his career, but NOT that elite player capable of putting a team on his back, and winning the hard games necessary to leading the charge to the top...

Then it SERVES NO PURPOSE to use your draft pick ammunition on adding more players who ALSO do not appear likely to be that kind of player.

None. If they expanded the game to be 6 or 7 players on the floor at a time, maybe it would make sense, but if they continue with just 5 on the floor at a time, then NBA history says you have to get that elite guy.

Maybe Schlenk is right to believe Trae is going to live up to the Curry comparisons. But there's little doubt at this point that is, indeed, how he's thinking about it.

That player simply does not exist.

Your opinion that this is a “weak” draft class isn’t consensus.

Elite FAs picked up can usually elevate teams if the fit is right. Let me rephrase that.

If we could add a KD-level FA, that kind of addition would instantly put our team in contention as it is currently formed.

Then you add two more lottery caliber prospects. That’s a slam dunk. I’m so confused..

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

birdlives_ma wrote:I don't know why some people are concerned with tanking for the 2020 draft when we haven't even had the 2019 lottery yet.

This seems to completely avoid the point...

There is NO elite talent coming by almost anyone's estimation coming out of this draft, with the lone exception according to some being Zion.

If you think Zion is elite, okay. (I don't.) But at least it is reasonable to see not only if you somehow win the #1 pick on your own, but if there might be a deal that can be struck to get him.

And the comment also seems to presume someone is advocating for a trade before the lottery happens. Who, though? Not me. Someone else?

High 5 wrote:For real. That early 2000's wait-til-next-next year vibe creeping back in, haha. And by the way, the 2020 draft is pretty weak too. I like Wiseman, but other than that, it's guards. the wings are meh in my eyes so far.

Well, first, the 2019 draft is what it is, of course. There's no getting around that.

There is, however, a lot of room left for assessing what's coming out in 2020. Far too early to be making those kinds of conclusions. History tells us, as it has even this year, you really have to wait until December and January to be getting a good idea of how much the top talent has developed. So much can happen for a 17 year-old or an 18 year-old or a 19 year-old kid in the space of a year... both here, and internationally.

But again... contrary to the "creeping" comment... judging Schlenk by his own words before and his own actions currently and this new report... he believes Young is elite... and if you believe you already have gained your elite player capable of delivering a championship, then yeah, you go ahead and just collect more pieces.

I'm just not persuaded that Young is that guy. You can be responsible for a lot of offense, and still give up so much on defense that your team loses. NBA history is littered with great scorers and great passers who proved incapable of taking their team to championship contention.

To me, he's an excellent piece, as-is Collins. But you still have to add that one more absolute NBA elite player from somewhere, and by Schlenk's own words, parroting what most of us have tended to believe, the Atlanta NBA franchise must add that player from the draft b/c we're just not blessed with the mystique of a handful of other teams that can attract an elite free agent.

To me, this sounds like we might go out and add a Paul Milsap-like player in free agency.

Sounds great for people who just want to get back into playoff territory, content to exit after the second round. I thought we were doing this, though, because we had decided this was the path to, at least, perennial Eastern Conference championship contention, if not NBA Finals contention.

I hate to think we've just went through what we've just went through, ONLY to get back to WHERE WE WERE when we launched into the tank era. But that seems like what's about to happen.

I think you’re over-emphasizing the importance of individual defense in the modern NBA. You have to go all the way back to the Miami Heat teams to see a champion that has what could be considered even an average/above average defender (Chalmers). It’s overblown. Having a team that can play good defense anchored by a versatile perimeter defender who’s switchable AND a high quality help defender is more important than having a team of good individual defenders.

High 5 wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:There is NO elite talent coming by almost anyone's estimation coming out of this draft, with the lone exception according to some being Zion.

1) Zion is considered an elite talent by the vast majority. It's not some fringe idea.

I said "some." I'd say that's a whole lot more accurate than "vast majority," but to each his own since I'm not aware of any polling of any authoritative source to say one way or the other.

I can only say that in what I've read, there is no shortage of skepticism... not saying that he won't be good, but that he won't be elite.

High 5 wrote:2) The draft isn't that simple. The last 3 MVPs were selected after some crappy players and Giannis is the favorite to win this year. George and Leonard are both in the running. Hell, the way Trae has played lately he may find himself in the MVP discussion down the road. It's not always obvious who the elite talents are.

No doubt.

But the point is that if you're tanking, the whole idea has been to give yourself the best shot at the most likely elite talents. And if you do an analysis like I did, charting the draft slots of all NBA All-Stars... so, an even wider net... of the last several years... you find that the concentration of perennial All-Stars... to THE SURPRISE OF ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, of course... is in the top 3 picks by far. (And once you dip below #15, there are hardly any at all.)

So, it is MINDLESS to put all this "anti-effort" for lack of a better term into tanking, only to end up with not much better opportunities to acquire primo talent.

If you're playing poker... and there's a lot of that to this... you have to know when hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em and hopefully exchange 'em for some better cards in the next go-round.

EazyRoc wrote:

High 5 wrote:I don't know why some people are concerned with tanking for the 2020 draft when we haven't even had the 2019 lottery yet.

What blows my mind is that people are already writing the 2019 as a weak class. Meanwhile, I see a gang of future NBA players - like high quality contributors. I can probably pick out 10-15 players I know will be at minimum solid NBA players. About 4-5 that I’m pretty sure will make a All Star game.

That's fine, but what we need is NOT just another high quality contributor or ASG participant.

That's not just me saying so, that's what Schlenk has said, and for that matter, what many others of us have said, agreeing.

What we need is an elite player.

Now, going back to the original premise... it appears Schlenk believes Young is his elite piece.

If you agree with that, then of course, yes, draft away.

If you don't agree with that... and unless you foresee us obtaining Zion if you're one of those who think Zion is elite... then, it boggles the mind why a person would favor drafting in this draft instead of parlaying those picks forward to another draft where there is AT LEAST some new chance to pick up that elite player that you believe is not yet on the roster.

We'll be making our 2 2019 lottery picks this offseason.
Trade Prince for a future 2020 pick.
We have our own 1st pick 2020.
We have OKC's 1st pick in 2020.
$40 mil in cap in the 2019 offseason to pursue a top FA.
Baze and Plumlee contracts off the books in 2020 - pursue another top FA.

No reason to overthink, get cute and outsmart ourselves.

EazyRoc wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

jayu70 wrote:Even if you have eyes for a top elite FA, you still make your pick.

Few, including Schlenk himself based on what he has said, believe we should expect we can gain an elite FA.

So, yes, you make your pick... if... IF... you believe you can actually obtain what you believe you need, ie, an elite FA.... or, yes, as you said in the following statement...

jayu70 wrote:Even if you think Trae is 'the guy' you still make your pick.

...certainly if you already have your elite talent in Trae, then yes, you go ahead and use your picks.

But if you are, like me, persuaded that Trae is going to be one of the NBA's best point guards over the course of his career, but NOT that elite player capable of putting a team on his back, and winning the hard games necessary to leading the charge to the top...

Then it SERVES NO PURPOSE to use your draft pick ammunition on adding more players who ALSO do not appear likely to be that kind of player.

None. If they expanded the game to be 6 or 7 players on the floor at a time, maybe it would make sense, but if they continue with just 5 on the floor at a time, then NBA history says you have to get that elite guy.

Maybe Schlenk is right to believe Trae is going to live up to the Curry comparisons. But there's little doubt at this point that is, indeed, how he's thinking about it.

That player simply does not exist.

Your opinion that this is a “weak” draft class isn’t consensus.

Elite FAs picked up can usually elevate teams if the fit is right. Let me rephrase that.

If we could add a KD-level FA, that kind of addition would instantly put our team in contention as it is currently formed.

Then you add two more lottery caliber prospects. That’s a slam dunk. I’m so confused..

You're confused? I'm confused.

Elite players have always had their vital support players, but virtually no one fails to recognize that that player has existed in the form of LeBron... in the form of Curry... in the form of Leonard.

And, when the money's the same, elite players have not come to ATL in the past, hence Schlenk's sober observation long ago that we would need to obtain that elite talent in the draft.

He's right about that much.

I'm less certain that he's right that Trae is going to be elite... in case that horse was still breathing.

When we discuss Trae's potential, we also can't forget to add in that the PG spot is the least important defensive position on the floor.

Right now, he isn't, but if he improves to merely below average instead of putrid on defense, he has top 20 player potential. That's the same as being an All NBA player.

For now I don't see why not on that. He doesn't have his man strength right now and is learning about how he can affect the game defensively. He'll never be good defensively but he can be better and it's not impossible.

Collins' defense is more worrisome, tbh.

jayu70 wrote:We'll be making our 2 2019 lottery picks this offseason.

Yes. It appears we will. And if you honestly believe Trae is elite, you can be very happy with that. If you don't, and especially if you also don't regard Zion as having an elite future, you should be really disappointed with that.

jayu70 wrote:Trade Prince for a future 2020 pick.

No untouchables on this roster.

No one I'm anxious to trade either, though.

jayu70 wrote:We have our own 1st pick 2020.

Yes.

jayu70 wrote:We have OKC's 1st pick in 2020.

No.

We have CLE's 11-20 pick in 2020. We have OKC's 15-30 pick in 2022.

jayu70 wrote:$40 mil in cap in the 2019 offseason to pursue a top FA.

Right. And again... if you think Trae is elite, then an infusion of Milsap-like talent could be huge.

And again... few fail to understand the unlikely scenario that an unproven team in a non-prime market will obtain an elite FA... so if you don't think Trae is elite, then this could be hugeeeeee...lyyyyy disappointing in the end analysis.

jayu70 wrote:Baze and Plumlee contracts off the books in 2020 - pursue another top FA.

Right.

jayu70 wrote:No reason to overthink, get cute and outsmart ourselves.

Not sure where this supposed overthinking lies...

It ALL SIMPLY pivots on whether one believes with Schlenk that Trae Young is on the cusp of Steph Curry likeness.

If you believe that, then one course of direction makes sense, and the other doesn't. And the converse is also true.

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

EazyRoc wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:
Few, including Schlenk himself based on what he has said, believe we should expect we can gain an elite FA.

So, yes, you make your pick... if... IF... you believe you can actually obtain what you believe you need, ie, an elite FA.... or, yes, as you said in the following statement...



...certainly if you already have your elite talent in Trae, then yes, you go ahead and use your picks.

But if you are, like me, persuaded that Trae is going to be one of the NBA's best point guards over the course of his career, but NOT that elite player capable of putting a team on his back, and winning the hard games necessary to leading the charge to the top...

Then it SERVES NO PURPOSE to use your draft pick ammunition on adding more players who ALSO do not appear likely to be that kind of player.

None. If they expanded the game to be 6 or 7 players on the floor at a time, maybe it would make sense, but if they continue with just 5 on the floor at a time, then NBA history says you have to get that elite guy.

Maybe Schlenk is right to believe Trae is going to live up to the Curry comparisons. But there's little doubt at this point that is, indeed, how he's thinking about it.

That player simply does not exist.

Your opinion that this is a “weak” draft class isn’t consensus.

Elite FAs picked up can usually elevate teams if the fit is right. Let me rephrase that.

If we could add a KD-level FA, that kind of addition would instantly put our team in contention as it is currently formed.

Then you add two more lottery caliber prospects. That’s a slam dunk. I’m so confused..

You're confused? I'm confused.

Elite players have always had their vital support players, but virtually no one fails to recognize that that player has existed in the form of LeBron... in the form of Curry... in the form of Leonard.

And, when the money's the same, elite players have not come to ATL in the past, hence Schlenk's sober observation long ago that we would need to obtain that elite talent in the draft.

He's right about that much.

I'm less certain that he's right that Trae is going to be elite... in case that horse was still breathing.

LeBron has never won anything of significance carrying a whole team “on his back” nor has Curry nor has Leonard.

That’s a lazy narrative perpetuated by lazy sports media.

You’re right about elite players not coming to ATL historically. That still should not deter you from pursuing guys who could turn your franchise around. That’s a defeatist mentality.

If you don’t think Trae is going to elite..then I don’t know what else to say.

EazyRoc wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

EazyRoc wrote:LeBron has never won anything of significance carrying a whole team “on his back” nor has Curry nor has Leonard.

What I said... "Elite players have always had their vital support players, but virtually no one fails to recognize that that player has existed in the form of LeBron... in the form of Curry... in the form of Leonard."

I stand by that.

Even among a given championship team's best core players, there is always one that has stood out for making the clutch plays at vital moments repeatedly with especially high efficiency.

I stand by that, as does Schlenk based on what he's said, as does a whole whole whole lotta others who get paid for their opinions.

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

EazyRoc wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

What I said... "Elite players have always had their vital support players, but virtually no one fails to recognize that that player has existed in the form of LeBron... in the form of Curry... in the form of Leonard."

I stand by that.

Even among a given championship team's best core players, there is always one that has stood out for making the most clutch plays at vital moments repeatedly.

Well, again. It’s a lazy narrative.

That player was just as much, if not more, Kyrie Irving than LeBron according to your criteria. Just as much Klay and Draymond as Curry. I’m not arguing that LeBron et al aren’t elite. It seems to me like you’re applying artificial qualifications towards what an elite player is and isn’t. Even by your own qualifications though, I feel Trae has had enough moments thus far to easily be seen as having potential to become a elite by your own measure.

EazyRoc wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

EazyRoc wrote:

What I said... "Elite players have always had their vital support players, but virtually no one fails to recognize that that player has existed in the form of LeBron... in the form of Curry... in the form of Leonard."

I stand by that.

Even among a given championship team's best core players, there is always one that has stood out for making the most clutch plays at vital moments repeatedly.

Well, again. It’s a lazy narrative.

That player was just as much, if not more, Kyrie Irving than LeBron according to your criteria. Just as much Klay and Draymond as Curry. I’m not arguing that LeBron et al aren’t elite. It seems to me like you’re applying artificial qualifications towards what an elite player is and isn’t. Even by your own qualifications though, I feel Trae has had enough moments thus far to easily be seen as having potential to become a elite by your own measure.

You're welcome to call it whatever you want for your own reasons. It's widely held, and that might even be an understatement.

And I won't even argue with you about Kyrie or Klay... you could make the argument that on occasion a team has been blessed with two of those kinds of players at the same time.

And I also won't even argue with you that Trae has had moments that suggest he has the potential to be elite.

None of that wounds my assertion here.

A team needs at least one top tier elite player. Schlenk appears to believe Trae is that guy for us. Given that, that prescribes a different outlook for this off-season than some of us anticipated... because... a lot of us aren't persuaded that Trae is that guy for us... but it is what it is. We'll see.

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

jayu70 wrote:We'll be making our 2 2019 lottery picks this offseason.

Yes. It appears we will. And if you honestly believe Trae is elite, you can be very happy with that. If you don't, and especially if you also don't regard Zion as having an elite future, you should be really disappointed with that.

jayu70 wrote:Trade Prince for a future 2020 pick.

No untouchables on this roster.

No one I'm anxious to trade either, though.

jayu70 wrote:We have our own 1st pick 2020.

Yes.

jayu70 wrote:We have OKC's 1st pick in 2020.

No.

We have CLE's 11-20 pick in 2020. We have OKC's 15-30 pick in 2022.

jayu70 wrote:$40 mil in cap in the 2019 offseason to pursue a top FA.

Right. And again... if you think Trae is elite, then an infusion of Milsap-like talent could be huge.

And again... few fail to understand the unlikely scenario that an unproven team in a non-prime market will obtain an elite FA... so if you don't think Trae is elite, then this could be hugeeeeee...lyyyyy disappointing in the end analysis.

jayu70 wrote:Baze and Plumlee contracts off the books in 2020 - pursue another top FA.

Right.

jayu70 wrote:No reason to overthink, get cute and outsmart ourselves.

Not sure where this supposed overthinking lies...

It ALL SIMPLY pivots on whether one believes with Schlenk that Trae Young is on the cusp of Steph Curry likeness.

If you believe that, then one course of direction makes sense, and the other doesn't. And the converse is also true.

Wether I think Trae is elite or not, I'm still making our two picks this year. You don't stop looking for young prospects to develop on the cheap while keeping your FA options.
The team still needs an infusion of young talent to develop alongside and behind Trae and John regardless of the FAcy approach.
NOP is a cautionary tale, they got Davis as their elite prospect and have spent the bulk of his next 8 years not using 1st round picks to fill in the roster around him, looked for quick fixes that didn't amount to squat.

jayu70 wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

jayu70 wrote:We'll be making our 2 2019 lottery picks this offseason.

Yes. It appears we will. And if you honestly believe Trae is elite, you can be very happy with that. If you don't, and especially if you also don't regard Zion as having an elite future, you should be really disappointed with that.

jayu70 wrote:Trade Prince for a future 2020 pick.

No untouchables on this roster.

No one I'm anxious to trade either, though.

jayu70 wrote:We have our own 1st pick 2020.

Yes.

jayu70 wrote:We have OKC's 1st pick in 2020.

No.

We have CLE's 11-20 pick in 2020. We have OKC's 15-30 pick in 2022.

jayu70 wrote:$40 mil in cap in the 2019 offseason to pursue a top FA.

Right. And again... if you think Trae is elite, then an infusion of Milsap-like talent could be huge.

And again... few fail to understand the unlikely scenario that an unproven team in a non-prime market will obtain an elite FA... so if you don't think Trae is elite, then this could be hugeeeeee...lyyyyy disappointing in the end analysis.

jayu70 wrote:Baze and Plumlee contracts off the books in 2020 - pursue another top FA.

Right.

jayu70 wrote:No reason to overthink, get cute and outsmart ourselves.

Not sure where this supposed overthinking lies...

It ALL SIMPLY pivots on whether one believes with Schlenk that Trae Young is on the cusp of Steph Curry likeness.

If you believe that, then one course of direction makes sense, and the other doesn't. And the converse is also true.

Wether I think Trae is elite or not, I'm still making our two picks this year. You don't stop looking for young prospects to develop on the cheap while keeping your FA options.
The team still needs an infusion of young talent to develop alongside and behind Trae and John regardless of the FAcy approach.
NOP is a cautionary tale, they got Davis as their elite prospect and have spent the bulk of his next 8 years not using 1st round picks to fill in the roster around him, looked for quick fixes that didn't amount to squat.

I don't know why this is even debated.

If you're the GM and you believe that the one element you're missing is an elite talent, then... self-evidently... you focus on that.

And so, you have to use the assets at your disposal to get THAT.... not a consolation prize of some kind.

If you use up your assets just getting more talent that is high quality but will never be that ELEMENT YOU KNOW YOU'RE MISSING... who's kidding whom?

You're engaging the hamster wheel.

Worse, you're consciously doing so, seemingly unaffected by rational thought.

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

EazyRoc wrote:

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:
What I said... "Elite players have always had their vital support players, but virtually no one fails to recognize that that player has existed in the form of LeBron... in the form of Curry... in the form of Leonard."

I stand by that.

Even among a given championship team's best core players, there is always one that has stood out for making the most clutch plays at vital moments repeatedly.

Well, again. It’s a lazy narrative.

That player was just as much, if not more, Kyrie Irving than LeBron according to your criteria. Just as much Klay and Draymond as Curry. I’m not arguing that LeBron et al aren’t elite. It seems to me like you’re applying artificial qualifications towards what an elite player is and isn’t. Even by your own qualifications though, I feel Trae has had enough moments thus far to easily be seen as having potential to become a elite by your own measure.

You're welcome to call it whatever you want for your own reasons. It's widely held, and that might even be an understatement.

And I won't even argue with you about Kyrie or Klay... you could make the argument that on occasion a team has been blessed with two of those kinds of players at the same time.

And I also won't even argue with you that Trae has had moments that suggest he has the potential to be elite.

None of that wounds my assertion here.

A team needs at least one top tier elite player. Schlenk appears to believe Trae is that guy for us. Given that, that prescribes a different outlook for this off-season than some of us anticipated... because... a lot of us aren't persuaded that Trae is that guy for us... but it is what it is. We'll see.

OK.

Neither Kyrie or Klay individually fit the criteria. That’s why the idea is fallacious.

It’s not that complicated. You do whatever you can to improve your team. The hamster wheel we were on was significantly different then our current position. We have 2 (likely)lottery picks and the ability to add a superstar to our very good young core. The position we are in is precisely where most of us envisioned being when we started.

But whatever..I’m not really even sure what point your making anymore.

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:

birdlives_ma wrote:I don't know why some people are concerned with tanking for the 2020 draft when we haven't even had the 2019 lottery yet.

This seems to completely avoid the point...

There is NO elite talent coming by almost anyone's estimation coming out of this draft, with the lone exception according to some being Zion.

If you think Zion is elite, okay. (I don't.) But at least it is reasonable to see not only if you somehow win the #1 pick on your own, but if there might be a deal that can be struck to get him.

And the comment also seems to presume someone is advocating for a trade before the lottery happens. Who, though? Not me. Someone else?

High 5 wrote:For real. That early 2000's wait-til-next-next year vibe creeping back in, haha. And by the way, the 2020 draft is pretty weak too. I like Wiseman, but other than that, it's guards. the wings are meh in my eyes so far.

Well, first, the 2019 draft is what it is, of course. There's no getting around that.

There is, however, a lot of room left for assessing what's coming out in 2020. Far too early to be making those kinds of conclusions. History tells us, as it has even this year, you really have to wait until December and January to be getting a good idea of how much the top talent has developed. So much can happen for a 17 year-old or an 18 year-old or a 19 year-old kid in the space of a year... both here, and internationally.

But again... contrary to the "creeping" comment... judging Schlenk by his own words before and his own actions currently and this new report... he believes Young is elite... and if you believe you already have gained your elite player capable of delivering a championship, then yeah, you go ahead and just collect more pieces.

I'm just not persuaded that Young is that guy. You can be responsible for a lot of offense, and still give up so much on defense that your team loses. NBA history is littered with great scorers and great passers who proved incapable of taking their team to championship contention.

To me, he's an excellent piece, as-is Collins. But you still have to add that one more absolute NBA elite player from somewhere, and by Schlenk's own words, parroting what most of us have tended to believe, the Atlanta NBA franchise must add that player from the draft b/c we're just not blessed with the mystique of a handful of other teams that can attract an elite free agent.

To me, this sounds like we might go out and add a Paul Milsap-like player in free agency.

Sounds great for people who just want to get back into playoff territory, content to exit after the second round. I thought we were doing this, though, because we had decided this was the path to, at least, perennial Eastern Conference championship contention, if not NBA Finals contention.

I hate to think we've just went through what we've just went through, ONLY to get back to WHERE WE WERE when we launched into the tank era. But that seems like what's about to happen.

Bro... Bro, bro, bro that is a lot of fear and speculation in your post. I don't see that anywhere in what Schlenk says. I am reading that we are going after big guns to play with Trae and Collins.. Huerter as well ( yes I still believe this guy is legit, he just needs to learn to pull the trigger and shoot as well as get healthy) Relax brother and