Wilt Chamberlain vs Colorado

[70sFan]

Remember that going full out puts a lot more strain on large people with a lot of mass especially on the knees. There are some jaw dropping blocks out though on WiltChamberlainArchive YT channel, you should check them out if you have not done so already. Furthermore Wilt was a bit too self-conscious about his rather freakish athleticism and size and decided early that he wanted to dominate more with skill than physically. Wilt was also a great track and field athlete who won a competition despite never really committing to the sport. Lastly the league did everything in its power to limit Wilt's dominance as opposed to Shaq who, as Wilt put it, got away with murder during his peak years.

Wilt's high jump record in track and field events was 6 foot 6 inches. The world record is 8 foot 1/4 inches. His historically mind boggling track and field is highly exaggerated. There are high school athletes 12 inches shorter than Wilt that clear high jumps higher than his records. The high school high jump record is 7 foot 7 inches, to put into perspective.

They don't jump with the same technique though.

[70sFan]

I don't understand why people expect Wilt to jump above the rim consistantly. We have so few footage from that era and even today it'a not common. How many times did James do this? Or Shaq? Jordan? Yeah, exactly and we have much more footage with them than with Wilt.

[aura]

I don't understand why people expect Wilt to jump above the rim consistantly. We have so few footage from that era and even today it'a not common. How many times did James do this? Or Shaq? Jordan? Yeah, exactly and we have much more footage with them than with Wilt.

No one thinks Jordan or Shaq were jumpers in the sense of Kemp or Dominique (they were more athletic in other ways), let alone Gerald Green or Diallo, let along LeBron James. But he's always presented in a way that he would out-jump anybody in today's age. Ps,

[70sFan]

I don't understand why people expect Wilt to jump above the rim consistantly. We have so few footage from that era and even today it'a not common. How many times did James do this? Or Shaq? Jordan? Yeah, exactly and we have much more footage with them than with Wilt.

No one thinks Jordan or Shaq were jumpers in the sense of Kemp or Dominique (they were more athletic in other ways), let alone Gerald Green or Diallo, let along LeBron James. But he's always presented in a way that he would out-jump anybody in today's age. Ps,

Only for people who believe in exaggarated numbers. I doubt Wilt had higher vertical than James, but he showed enough on available tape that it's likely he has higher vertical than any legit 7 footer.

Again - how many photos like this we have for James? How many photos we have of Wilt in game actions? 0.5% of all James photos? Maybe even less.

[aura]

Only for people who believe in exaggarated numbers. I doubt Wilt had higher vertical than James, but he showed enough on available tape that it's likely he has higher vertical than any legit 7 footer.

Again - how many photos like this we have for James? How many photos we have of Wilt in game actions? 0.5% of all James photos? Maybe even less.

Then nothing I said is directed at you. You would be surprised how many believe in the mythology around Wilt.

[Pg81]

Remember that going full out puts a lot more strain on large people with a lot of mass especially on the knees. There are some jaw dropping blocks out though on WiltChamberlainArchive YT channel, you should check them out if you have not done so already. Furthermore Wilt was a bit too self-conscious about his rather freakish athleticism and size and decided early that he wanted to dominate more with skill than physically. Wilt was also a great track and field athlete who won a competition despite never really committing to the sport. Lastly the league did everything in its power to limit Wilt's dominance as opposed to Shaq who, as Wilt put it, got away with murder during his peak years.

Wilt's high jump record in track and field events was 6 foot 1 inches. The world record is 8 foot 1/4 inches. His historically mind boggling track and field is highly exaggerated. There are high school athletes 12 inches shorter than Wilt that clear high jumps higher than his records. The high school high jump record is 7 foot 7 inches, to put into perspective.

Evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/9akkos/debunking_most_every_wilt_chamberlain_track_field/

They did not have the Fosbury Flop technique yet so no, other high schoolers did not clear the bar much higher than Wilt. And again Wilt did this part time and was not fully commited to track and field.

[70sFan]

Only for people who believe in exaggarated numbers. I doubt Wilt had higher vertical than James, but he showed enough on available tape that it's likely he has higher vertical than any legit 7 footer.

Again - how many photos like this we have for James? How many photos we have of Wilt in game actions? 0.5% of all James photos? Maybe even less.

Then nothing I said is directed at you. You would be surprised how many believe in the mythology around Wilt.

I don't think that saying Wilt had ~40 inch vertical at his physical peak is exxagaration. Of course 48-50 inch vertical is not acceptable.

[Pg81]

Only for people who believe in exaggarated numbers. I doubt Wilt had higher vertical than James, but he showed enough on available tape that it's likely he has higher vertical than any legit 7 footer.

Again - how many photos like this we have for James? How many photos we have of Wilt in game actions? 0.5% of all James photos? Maybe even less.

Then nothing I said is directed at you. You would be surprised how many believe in the mythology around Wilt.

I don't think that saying Wilt had ~40 inch vertical at his physical peak is exxagaration. Of course 48-50 inch vertical is not acceptable.

People are more likely to believe that Wilt dominated sub 6 foot white guys than they believe him having a vertical approaching 50 from my experience.

[aura]

Only for people who believe in exaggarated numbers. I doubt Wilt had higher vertical than James, but he showed enough on available tape that it's likely he has higher vertical than any legit 7 footer.

Again - how many photos like this we have for James? How many photos we have of Wilt in game actions? 0.5% of all James photos? Maybe even less.

Then nothing I said is directed at you. You would be surprised how many believe in the mythology around Wilt.

I don't think that saying Wilt had ~40 inch vertical at his physical peak is exxagaration. Of course 48-50 inch vertical is not acceptable.

It most definitely is given the evidence we have through video or photo. Here is 6'2 guard Russell Westbrook (11 inches shorter than Wilt) getting his head closer to the rim than we've ever seen Wilt's, and his recorded max vert at the 2008 draft combine was 36.5 inches. And keep in mind, Westbrook's entire draft stock came out of his athletic performance at the combine, so its not like he wasn't trying.



I will give it to you for not buying those stories about him grabbing pennies off the top of the backboard, but even a 40 inch vertical for someone 7'1 would routinely show in the many videos and photos we have of Wilt. There is not a single 7 footer in the history of the draft combine who's measured in a 40 inch vertical. So that might be something to keep in mind.

[70sFan]

Then nothing I said is directed at you. You would be surprised how many believe in the mythology around Wilt.

I don't think that saying Wilt had ~40 inch vertical at his physical peak is exxagaration. Of course 48-50 inch vertical is not acceptable.

It most definitely is given the evidence we have through video or photo. Here is 6'2 guard Russell Westbrook (11 inches shorter than Wilt) getting his head closer to the rim than we've ever seen Wilt's, and his recorded max vert at the 2008 draft combine was 36.5 inches. And keep in mind, Westbrook's entire draft stock came out of his athletic performance at the combine, so its not like he wasn't trying.



I will give it to you for not buying those stories about him grabbing pennies off the top of the backboard, but even a 40 inch vertical for someone 7'1 would routinely show in the many videos and photos we have of Wilt.

But why would Wilt need to jump as high as possible in games situations? He had 7'8 wingspan and was 7'1 without the shoes. To block shots he didn't have to jump that high. To dunk he almost didn't have to jump at all. Comparing him to Westbrook is terrible way to judge his athletic feats.

Also, we have total of 2 (incomplete) games of prime Wilt from 60s along with random documentary footage. We have hundrets of games with Westbrook available. How can you even compare it?

[aura]

But why would Wilt need to jump as high as possible in games situations? He had 7'8 wingspan and was 7'1 without the shoes. To block shots he didn't have to jump that high. To dunk he almost didn't have to jump at all. Comparing him to Westbrook is terrible way to judge his athletic feats.

Also, we have total of 2 (incomplete) games of prime Wilt from 60s along with random documentary footage. We have hundrets of games with Westbrook available. How can you even compare it?

Well, at least you can admit there is literally no evidence of it. For perspective, Dwight Howard measured in at 6'9 at the draft combine, recorded a max 35.5 inch vertical, and is kissing the rim in college pictures. A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical would be getting his eyes above the rim, we haven't even seen wilt get within 6 inches of the rim with the top of his head.

A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical, even if he wasn't trying would routinely get his head higher than a 6'2 dude who has a 5 inch shorter vert than him. Dwight, being about 3-4 inches shorter than him, with also an apparently 5 inch weaker vertical, displayed feats of athleticism game in and game out that out-did Wilt, with respects to how high he got.

Maybe its just possible that people in the 60s exaggerated things?

[70sFan]

But why would Wilt need to jump as high as possible in games situations? He had 7'8 wingspan and was 7'1 without the shoes. To block shots he didn't have to jump that high. To dunk he almost didn't have to jump at all. Comparing him to Westbrook is terrible way to judge his athletic feats.

Also, we have total of 2 (incomplete) games of prime Wilt from 60s along with random documentary footage. We have hundrets of games with Westbrook available. How can you even compare it?

Well, at least you can admit there is literally no evidence of it. For perspective, Dwight Howard measured in at 6'9 at the draft combine, recorded a max 35.5 inch vertical, and is kissing the rim in college pictures. A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical would be getting his eyes above the rim, we haven't even seen wilt get within 6 inches of the rim with the top of his head.

A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical, even if he wasn't trying would routinely get his head higher than a 6'2 dude who has a 5 inch shorter vert than him. Dwight, being about 3-4 inches shorter than him, with also an apparently 5 inch weaker vertical, displayed feats of athleticism game in and game out that out-did Wilt, with respects to how high he got.

Maybe its just possible that people in the 60s exaggerated things?

Shaq had his max reach measured in 1992 - 12'5. His standing reach - 9'5. That means that he had 36 inches max verical - already better than Dwight.

Wilt had his max reach measured in 1968 by his team coaching staff - 12'9. His standing reach - 9'6. That means that he had 39 inches max vertical - keep in mind that he was already over 30 at that point.

Wilt also had his max reach measured in 1956 as a kid - 12'6. If he hadn't grown up since then, that also means he had higher vertical leap than Dwight when he was younger.

You may not believe in these numbers, but we don't have footage from that era and these numbers are not some random stories about him. If you don't believe that Wilt could have 39 inches vertical then I doubt that you've seen enough footage of him. He blocked some of the most impossible shots to blocks I've ever seen and he looked effortless doing that. We don't have anything in-game suggesting that Shaq had 36 inches vertical either. Big guys don't need jumping that high in basketball, besides jumping that high for a 300 lbs monsters like Wilt or Shaq can cause serious injuries.

[dorandragic]

I think it is safe to say college Wilt would hold his own against prime Shaq.

As amazing as this video is, prime Shaq would demolish this version of Wilt if they played in early 2000s.

Now if they were to play in the 60s, this would be completely different but under the 2000 rules Shaq would be able to get post ups under the rim all the time and then simply drop step and dunk.

I'd take the strongest and the heaviest version of Wilt against prime Shaq - not sure whether that's Warriors or Lakers version.

The way to counter Shaq imho would be using the weight and low center of gravity, not size and athleticism. Shaq had some issues going against Rodman at times and he also wasn't able to physically bully Sabonis the way he could let's say Mutombo, because Sabonis was probably about the same weight and could use his body to leverage Shaq's weight a bit.

[aura]

But why would Wilt need to jump as high as possible in games situations? He had 7'8 wingspan and was 7'1 without the shoes. To block shots he didn't have to jump that high. To dunk he almost didn't have to jump at all. Comparing him to Westbrook is terrible way to judge his athletic feats.

Also, we have total of 2 (incomplete) games of prime Wilt from 60s along with random documentary footage. We have hundrets of games with Westbrook available. How can you even compare it?

Well, at least you can admit there is literally no evidence of it. For perspective, Dwight Howard measured in at 6'9 at the draft combine, recorded a max 35.5 inch vertical, and is kissing the rim in college pictures. A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical would be getting his eyes above the rim, we haven't even seen wilt get within 6 inches of the rim with the top of his head.

A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical, even if he wasn't trying would routinely get his head higher than a 6'2 dude who has a 5 inch shorter vert than him. Dwight, being about 3-4 inches shorter than him, with also an apparently 5 inch weaker vertical, displayed feats of athleticism game in and game out that out-did Wilt, with respects to how high he got.

Maybe its just possible that people in the 60s exaggerated things?

Shaq had his max reach measured in 1992 - 12'5. His standing reach - 9'5. That means that he had 36 inches max verical - already better than Dwight.

Wilt had his max reach measured in 1968 by his team coaching staff - 12'9. His standing reach - 9'6. That means that he had 39 inches max vertical - keep in mind that he was already over 30 at that point.

Wilt also had his max reach measured in 1956 as a kid - 12'6. If he hadn't grown up since then, that also means he had higher vertical leap than Dwight when he was younger.

You may not believe in these numbers, but we don't have footage from that era and these numbers are not some random stories about him. If you don't believe that Wilt could have 39 inches vertical then I doubt that you've seen enough footage of him. He blocked some of the most impossible shots to blocks I've ever seen and he looked effortless doing that. We don't have anything in-game suggesting that Shaq had 36 inches vertical either. Big guys don't need jumping that high in basketball, besides jumping that high for a 300 lbs monsters like Wilt or Shaq can cause serious injuries.

Can you provide any evidence for these claims. For one, the NBA draft combine didn't start measuring for athleticism until 2000-2001, so whatever 3rd party source you have on those numbers, I'd love to see it. Not to sound harsh, but everything you're relying on for your position comes from word-of-mouth sources, or claims from their inner-camps. Shaq did not have a 36 inch vertical by any means, he cannot jump higher than Russell Westbrook. The Chamberlain stats just don't reflect his movement and how he showcased his athleticism in any video, so I'll take his coach's word of mouth with a grain of salt.

[JN61]

Remember that going full out puts a lot more strain on large people with a lot of mass especially on the knees. There are some jaw dropping blocks out though on WiltChamberlainArchive YT channel, you should check them out if you have not done so already. Furthermore Wilt was a bit too self-conscious about his rather freakish athleticism and size and decided early that he wanted to dominate more with skill than physically. Wilt was also a great track and field athlete who won a competition despite never really committing to the sport. Lastly the league did everything in its power to limit Wilt's dominance as opposed to Shaq who, as Wilt put it, got away with murder during his peak years.

Wilt's high jump record in track and field events was 6 foot 1 inches. The world record is 8 foot 1/4 inches. His historically mind boggling track and field is highly exaggerated. There are high school athletes 12 inches shorter than Wilt that clear high jumps higher than his records. The high school high jump record is 7 foot 7 inches, to put into perspective.

Evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/9akkos/debunking_most_every_wilt_chamberlain_track_field/

Sigh... Of course because they use modern technic to jump and have padding bellow...

[Pg81]

Remember that going full out puts a lot more strain on large people with a lot of mass especially on the knees. There are some jaw dropping blocks out though on WiltChamberlainArchive YT channel, you should check them out if you have not done so already. Furthermore Wilt was a bit too self-conscious about his rather freakish athleticism and size and decided early that he wanted to dominate more with skill than physically. Wilt was also a great track and field athlete who won a competition despite never really committing to the sport. Lastly the league did everything in its power to limit Wilt's dominance as opposed to Shaq who, as Wilt put it, got away with murder during his peak years.

Wilt's high jump record in track and field events was 6 foot 1 inches. The world record is 8 foot 1/4 inches. His historically mind boggling track and field is highly exaggerated. There are high school athletes 12 inches shorter than Wilt that clear high jumps higher than his records. The high school high jump record is 7 foot 7 inches, to put into perspective.

Evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/9akkos/debunking_most_every_wilt_chamberlain_track_field/

Sigh... Of course because they use modern technic to jump and have padding bellow...

Well that and also modern shoes, better training methods, medicine, rehab for injuries, etc. Seriously has anyone ever tried to to sports in Converse shoes? It is not pleasant.

[JN61]

I don't understand why people expect Wilt to jump above the rim consistantly. We have so few footage from that era and even today it'a not common. How many times did James do this? Or Shaq? Jordan? Yeah, exactly and we have much more footage with them than with Wilt.

No one thinks Jordan or Shaq were jumpers in the sense of Kemp or Dominique (they were more athletic in other ways), let alone Gerald Green or Diallo, let along LeBron James. But he's always presented in a way that he would out-jump anybody in today's age. Ps,

You don't remember nickname air Jordan? It was because he hanged up there, seemingly jumping higher than anyone before him. Jordan was absolutely known of his leaping ability.

[JN61]

Then nothing I said is directed at you. You would be surprised how many believe in the mythology around Wilt.

I don't think that saying Wilt had ~40 inch vertical at his physical peak is exxagaration. Of course 48-50 inch vertical is not acceptable.

It most definitely is given the evidence we have through video or photo. Here is 6'2 guard Russell Westbrook (11 inches shorter than Wilt) getting his head closer to the rim than we've ever seen Wilt's, and his recorded max vert at the 2008 draft combine was 36.5 inches. And keep in mind, Westbrook's entire draft stock came out of his athletic performance at the combine, so its not like he wasn't trying.



I will give it to you for not buying those stories about him grabbing pennies off the top of the backboard, but even a 40 inch vertical for someone 7'1 would routinely show in the many videos and photos we have of Wilt. There is not a single 7 footer in the history of the draft combine who's measured in a 40 inch vertical. So that might be something to keep in mind.

To be fair, Westbrook has gotten more athletic after his rookie year. He's also closer to 6'4" than 6'2". And whole picture is from other side of the court creating good 5-10 cm illusion to make him look to be higher than he really is.

Speaking of touching on top of the backboard. Haven't Dwight Howard touched that height? As 3-4 inches shorter player. Wouldn't put that out of Wilt's reach, especially considering blocking footage there is where he jumps higher than bare minimum to dip ball in.

[70sFan]

Well, at least you can admit there is literally no evidence of it. For perspective, Dwight Howard measured in at 6'9 at the draft combine, recorded a max 35.5 inch vertical, and is kissing the rim in college pictures. A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical would be getting his eyes above the rim, we haven't even seen wilt get within 6 inches of the rim with the top of his head.

A 7'1 dude with a 40 inch vertical, even if he wasn't trying would routinely get his head higher than a 6'2 dude who has a 5 inch shorter vert than him. Dwight, being about 3-4 inches shorter than him, with also an apparently 5 inch weaker vertical, displayed feats of athleticism game in and game out that out-did Wilt, with respects to how high he got.

Maybe its just possible that people in the 60s exaggerated things?

Shaq had his max reach measured in 1992 - 12'5. His standing reach - 9'5. That means that he had 36 inches max verical - already better than Dwight.

Wilt had his max reach measured in 1968 by his team coaching staff - 12'9. His standing reach - 9'6. That means that he had 39 inches max vertical - keep in mind that he was already over 30 at that point.

Wilt also had his max reach measured in 1956 as a kid - 12'6. If he hadn't grown up since then, that also means he had higher vertical leap than Dwight when he was younger.

You may not believe in these numbers, but we don't have footage from that era and these numbers are not some random stories about him. If you don't believe that Wilt could have 39 inches vertical then I doubt that you've seen enough footage of him. He blocked some of the most impossible shots to blocks I've ever seen and he looked effortless doing that. We don't have anything in-game suggesting that Shaq had 36 inches vertical either. Big guys don't need jumping that high in basketball, besides jumping that high for a 300 lbs monsters like Wilt or Shaq can cause serious injuries.

Can you provide any evidence for these claims. For one, the NBA draft combine didn't start measuring for athleticism until 2000-2001, so whatever 3rd party source you have on those numbers, I'd love to see it. Not to sound harsh, but everything you're relying on for your position comes from word-of-mouth sources, or claims from their inner-camps. Shaq did not have a 36 inch vertical by any means, he cannot jump higher than Russell Westbrook. The Chamberlain stats just don't reflect his movement and how he showcased his athleticism in any video, so I'll take his coach's word of mouth with a grain of salt.

12 feet 6 inches is cited as Wilt's max reach in a few associated press articles in 1956 - as a Sophomore at KU
13 feet is cited as Wilt's max reach in 1960 - other descriptive words used in a few articles that season are that he "can literally touch the top of a backboard" -
12 feet 9 inches is cited as Wilt's max reach in one article in 1968 and it is mentioned by Celtics player Larry Siegfried I believe, who compared it with Bill Russell's 12 feet 7 inches.

9 feet 6 inches flat footed standing reach is also a 1956 number, mentioned in a KU video documentary on Wilt Chamberlain. This number by the way, could likely be 9 feet 7 inches in modern shoes. According to draftexpress standing reach figures are always taken in shoes, and modern shoes are much thicker than converse all-star era footwear so this is important to note here.

I can't find anything specific, but here is the quote from WCA guy who did this research. Can't find anything about Shaq at the moment, but it was some kind of pre-draft measurement (probably not official one).

Russell Westbrook doesn't have that impressive vertical leap to be honest, especially compared to other freak athletes of his size. Besides, for someone like Westbrook it's much easier to gather quickly to jump as high as possible than for a behemot like Shaq.

You may be sceptical, but then you have to assume that all sources from 60s and 70s are fake and people just had an agenda to make Wilt look better than he was. Maybe it's true, personally I don't care because Wilt showed on tape that he was more athletic than 99.9% of centers even if he had 30 inches of max vertical. You can't say that something didn't happen just because we don't have visual evidences from 60 years ago. I know that people now are used to cameras but back then it wasn't that common. Today even non-impressive feats are filmed. Back then Wilt's 100 point game wasn't even filmed.

[INKtastic]