Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

[DCZards]

...White progressives need to take a HARD look at themselves given that this is the absolute best they can do.

I really think they need their own party. This would be very difficult to achieve but it needs to happen (IMO, for the good of the country). They need to be unchained with their ideas constantly in the forefront and not locked on the back burner.

If they started their party now, the would have Bernie and the gang as immediate members. If they voted with the Ds in this next election cycle (and actually tried to build coalitions) it would bode well for them long-term.

That would give us roughly equal splits of Rs, Ds, Ps and Is, IMO.

But this is a pipe dream....

I don't think it's a pipe dream, I think it's an inevitability. Since Citizens United, both parties have become utterly corrupted by corporate influence, which is antithetical to Democracy.

The Dems should (and do) have a big tent...and progressives shouldn't leave it to start their own party anymore than far-right conservatives should leave the Repubs to start their own party. Some progressives, particularly many of those that support Bernie, just need to be less obstinate and recognize that at the end of the day, like it or not, politics is the art of compromise.

[TGW]

this is your typical white democrat, right here:

Read on Twitter

This is why I'll never, ever, ever, ever become a Democrat.

[TGW]

I really think they need their own party. This would be very difficult to achieve but it needs to happen (IMO, for the good of the country). They need to be unchained with their ideas constantly in the forefront and not locked on the back burner.

If they started their party now, the would have Bernie and the gang as immediate members. If they voted with the Ds in this next election cycle (and actually tried to build coalitions) it would bode well for them long-term.

That would give us roughly equal splits of Rs, Ds, Ps and Is, IMO.

But this is a pipe dream....

I don't think it's a pipe dream, I think it's an inevitability. Since Citizens United, both parties have become utterly corrupted by corporate influence, which is antithetical to Democracy.

The Dems should (and do) have a big tent...and progressives shouldn't leave it to start their own party anymore than far-right conservatives should leave the Repubs to start their own party. Some progressives, particularly many of those that support Bernie, just need to be less obstinate and recognize that at the end of the day, like it or not, politics is the art of compromise.

Really Zards? Where have the moderates compromised?

Again, this is a warning to the Democratic establishment. If Biden is the guy they want to nominate, people are staying home and Trump wins. Period.

[Wizardspride]

I don't think it's a pipe dream, I think it's an inevitability. Since Citizens United, both parties have become utterly corrupted by corporate influence, which is antithetical to Democracy.

The Dems should (and do) have a big tent...and progressives shouldn't leave it to start their own party anymore than far-right conservatives should leave the Repubs to start their own party. Some progressives, particularly many of those that support Bernie, just need to be less obstinate and recognize that at the end of the day, like it or not, politics is the art of compromise.

Really Zards? Where have the moderates compromised?

Again, this is a warning to the Democratic establishment. If Biden is the guy they want to nominate, people are staying home and Trump wins. Period.

So in essence if "my guy isn't the nominee I'll sulk and stay home".

Cool

[montestewart]

I don't know if Biden could do it, but that would be an excellent approach.

Don't respond directly to extreme allegations from Trump and proxies, with an "I'm talking with people who want to save this country from insanity" approach perhaps.

Man, I don't know what level you guys are on, but this sounds like complete insanity to me. This is literally, I repeat, literally, what Hillary Clinton did in 2016. It did not work!



Ignoring Trump's insane attacks just lets him control the narrative. It's wild how people learned nothing from 2016. We are so ****ed.

Clinton did not do what I am suggesting, and she was likely incapable of doing so. Biden likely lacks the charisma, but at least is a little more plain spoken, or pretends to be. Sanders maybe has what it takes, because he's quick, sharp, spontaneous, and not so contrived and reserved.

Trump's campaigning is a bunch of white noise. Offer a clearly articulated alternative, but never let go of the accompanying theme of Trump. There's a lot to work with, a lot more than in 2016. Trump (like Rush and similar) is little more than a thin-skinned and unfunny comedian with an undemanding audience. It's not ignoring him, it's smacking him down. Just because few politicians do it successfully, doesn't mean that Trump is good at it, it just seems so because he's not good at too much, and his posse eats it up.

I'll bet you could do it. Why aren't you running for something?

PS: To these "Bernie Bros" characterizations, people I know who don't support Sanders often invoke that characterization, but people I know who do support Sanders (including me) don't act like that. So, other than TGW, where are the Bros hiding?

[DCZards]

The Dems should (and do) have a big tent...and progressives shouldn't leave it to start their own party anymore than far-right conservatives should leave the Repubs to start their own party. Some progressives, particularly many of those that support Bernie, just need to be less obstinate and recognize that at the end of the day, like it or not, politics is the art of compromise.

Really Zards? Where have the moderates compromised?

Again, this is a warning to the Democratic establishment. If Biden is the guy they want to nominate, people are staying home and Trump wins. Period.

So in essence if "my guy isn't the nominee I'll sulk and stay home".

I can't understand that thinking....not with the pos traitor we have in the WH

Young voters stayed home on Super Tuesday. African-Americans and older voters turned out in record numbers on Super Tuesday. Is there any wonder why Biden won the most states on Super Tuesday...and why most Dems (and not just the "establishment") don't believe Sanders can beat Trump in November.

[montestewart]

The Dems should (and do) have a big tent...and progressives shouldn't leave it to start their own party anymore than far-right conservatives should leave the Repubs to start their own party. Some progressives, particularly many of those that support Bernie, just need to be less obstinate and recognize that at the end of the day, like it or not, politics is the art of compromise.

Really Zards? Where have the moderates compromised?

Again, this is a warning to the Democratic establishment. If Biden is the guy they want to nominate, people are staying home and Trump wins. Period.

So in essence if "my guy isn't the nominee I'll sulk and stay home".

Cool.

I believe there are moderate Democrats who will switch parties or simply not vote if Sanders is the candidate. It's not good for the end game, but it happens. Whoever wins has to find a way to enthuse followers of the loser, rather than simply relying on confidence in reason, with beating Trump as the offered incentive.

If you're in a slam dunk state like Utah or Massachusetts, vote your conscience, like I do in DC. If you're in a battleground state, like Nevada or Pennsylvania, make sure your side wins, even if you're not fully on that side, like I used to do in Virginia.

[Kanyewest]

This is why I'll never, ever, ever, ever become a Democrat.

But Nina Turner is a member of the Democratic Party

[Kanyewest]

On my facebook feed, Warren supporters are pretty bitter, they say they don't want to support either Biden or Bernie.

[Wizardspride]

On my facebook feed, Warren supporters are pretty bitter, they say they don't want to support either Biden or Bernie.

No time to sulk like a child.

The sole goal should be to remove Trump from office.

Once that's done, advocate like hell for your beliefs.

And this is coming from a Warren supporter.

[montestewart]

On my facebook feed, Warren supporters are pretty bitter, they say they don't want to support either Biden or Bernie.

I supported Warren u till her recent plummet. Some will take longer to move on, but there is eight months until the election to come to terms.

[I_Like_Dirt]

The sole goal should be to remove Trump from office.

Once that's done, advocate like hell for your beliefs.

And this is coming from a Warren supporter.

Yeah, most Warren supporters I've seen are relatively rational about the whole thing, particularly when compared with supporters of some other candidates. I do think that a lot of them definitely sort of want to support Bernie but Bernie's supporters have been out en masse, from what I've seen, making sure they're about as unwelcoming as possible and right there to pat themselves on the back when they point out that people who don't support Bernie are willing to let millions of people die just because someone was mean to them on the internet, as though they're actually reasonable in this whole ordeal.

[Ruzious]

And she's got plenty of time to choose who to support - maybe even negotiate for one of her projects in the meantime.

[Pointgod]

Re: Warren. Warren was and is fundamentally a bad candidate. Unlike Kamala Harris, who sort of ran a bad campaign, Elizabeth Warren is a bad candidate, and has always been a bad candidate. She had zero connections to Black voters anywhere. She *routinely* underperformed the top of the ticket in her home state, even as an incumbent! Her own state never liked her as much as the top of the ticket. She was a one note candidate who leveraged anger at the banks, until she got young activists to write most of the platform, which is exciting to young activists on twitter and nobody else. She also has a history of attacks and clapbacks on Hillary and Obama. And she tried to win Bernie Sanders voters without being Bernie Sanders (side note: Bernie Sanders as a phenomenon is not about policy, it is a Stalinist cult of personality) which to be fair a lot of dumbasses did.

White progressives need to take a HARD look at themselves given that this is the absolute best they can do.

I keep hearing this about all the female candidates. Warren was bad, supposedly Clinton was horrible yet these two were more accomplished and arguably better candidates than anyone from either party who have run from either side. Maybe we should take a look at what’s incentivized and how certain candidates are covered. Mayor Pete was probably the least qualified person running except for Marianne Williamson and Tom Steyer yet he won Iowa and lasted until Super Tuesday. You can’t honestly tell me with a straight face that Donald Trump or Ben Carson are even remotely qualified to be President. I hear you that Warren failed to attract black voters, she tried to align too close to Bernie but she showed her homework on how to pay for M4A while Bernie has never been pressed on it. She handily won the majority of debates and destroyed Mike Bloomberg into a 1000 pieces, yet she can’t go up against Trump? I’m not buying that she was some horrible candidate.

[gtn130]

On my facebook feed, Warren supporters are pretty bitter, they say they don't want to support either Biden or Bernie.

wow, sounds really toxic

[Pointgod]

And she's got plenty of time to choose who to support - maybe even negotiate for one of her projects in the meantime.

And I’m sure Bernie supporters will react completely rationally and not toxic at all if Warren doesn’t support either Bernie or Biden.

[gtn130]

The sole goal should be to remove Trump from office.

Once that's done, advocate like hell for your beliefs.

And this is coming from a Warren supporter.

Yeah, most Warren supporters I've seen are relatively rational about the whole thing, particularly when compared with supporters of some other candidates. I do think that a lot of them definitely sort of want to support Bernie but Bernie's supporters have been out en masse, from what I've seen, making sure they're about as unwelcoming as possible and right there to pat themselves on the back when they point out that people who don't support Bernie are willing to let millions of people die just because someone was mean to them on the internet, as though they're actually reasonable in this whole ordeal.

Are they wrong? Sounds 100% correct to me. If you're supporting Biden over Bernie singularly because Bernie supporters were mean to you, you're a sad and weak person without any conviction whatsoever.

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

Like this is legitimately some of the most pathetic nonsense I've seen maybe in my lifetime. This guy who is otherwise ostensibly a smart and respectable human being is advocating people should totally abandon their policy positions and support the candidate who doesn't have mean twitter followers.

[dckingsfan]

Speaking about the role that gender played in the campaign, Warren said: “Gender in this race, you know that is the trap question for every woman. If you say, ‘Yeah, there was sexism in this race,’ everyone says, ‘Whiner!’ And if you say, ‘No, there was no sexism,’ about a gazillion women say, ‘What planet do you live on?’

https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/helen-ubinas-elizabeth-warren-drops-out-diversity-inclusion-bernie-biden-20200306.html

[Kanyewest]

On my facebook feed, Warren supporters are pretty bitter, they say they don't want to support either Biden or Bernie.

wow, sounds really toxic

One of my friends was asking who to support after supporting Warren.

Person 1: If she cared at all about her own policies, it'd be Bernie

Person 2(replying to person 1): Bernie is the same as Trump and so are you


My facebook feed is like some paradox from Twitter and Reddit (although probably I could find some similar train of thought on Twitter if I went looking for it)