T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

[Chris Porter's Hair]

If Wiggins' contract is indeed this bad, hopefully it will stop people from proposing trades here to obtain him...

[Wolveswin]

If Wiggins' contract is indeed this bad, hopefully it will stop people from proposing trades here to obtain him...

It’s not that they want to obtain him or his contract — rather the compensation Warriors would need to attach to move him.

[Texas Chuck]

If Wiggins' contract is indeed this bad, hopefully it will stop people from proposing trades here to obtain him...

It’s not that they want to obtain him or his contract — rather the compensation Warriors would need to attach to move him.

Yeah its never about fans wanting Wiggins for their team that's for sure. It's either them trying to get the compensation or its like me believing the Warriors could better allocate that money.

Dwight Powell is in as many trades as Wiggins if not more and I promise it you its not because fans really want them some Dwight Powell.

[Cappy_Smurf]

Lmao at that picture of Klay.

He definitely looks a little pissed to be on the list.

[NYG]

Ironically, I don't see any of those teams using assets to dump those players.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

If Wiggins' contract is indeed this bad, hopefully it will stop people from proposing trades here to obtain him...

It’s not that they want to obtain him or his contract — rather the compensation Warriors would need to attach to move him.

Yeah its never about fans wanting Wiggins for their team that's for sure. It's either them trying to get the compensation or its like me believing the Warriors could better allocate that money.

Dwight Powell is in as many trades as Wiggins if not more and I promise it you its not because fans really want them some Dwight Powell.

Yeah, I know that in theory. What I don't know is why I keep coming back here, to be repeatedly met with.
- My team gives a bunch of garbage. The Warriors give Wiggins and a bunch of value.
- ... we have no interest in that
- We're doing you a favor, taking that contract off your hands.
- But we aren't complaining about the contract at all. We're very happy having Wiggins.
- We don't believe you. We think you'd give a lot of value to get rid of him.

[NOLA Glasses]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a real bummer to see guys become toxic contracts because they were great players and are getting older? Something needs to be done in the next CBA, no idea what, but the days of players who are generally not great being the most overpaid (Travis Outlaw getting paid for potential, Gilbert Arenas going crazy and getting out of shape) were better than guys like Horford and Westbrook just having good agents, right?

[shrink]

All it suggests is poor player evaluation.

No, it suggests he radically outperformed his expected value.

We are making these evaluations at a point in time, taking a snapshot. People thought age and injuries would seriously hamper Paul, and that was not a bad bet. It was very unlikely Paul would do so well this year - he deserves credit for proving us wrong.

Dr. Positivity is right, It’s hard to argue with the evaluation when he was actually traded for Westbrook in real life, and it took picks to do it.

"Expected" is a super subjective word and not common. If it was common to this thread, that was a mistake based on poor projection.

Maybe we run in different circles, but “expected value” is certainly common for me. It is almost a necessity in valuations based on future production, whether that’s an investment, a used car, or stat production for an nba player.

When we assess the trade value of a player, we are trying to determine whether his future salary will be worth what his future production will be. An expected value is the sum of all the potential outcomes. Paul could have gotten hurt, and older players before him have been injury prone. He could have seen an age related decline in play, and again, older players before him have seen this happen. Including those outcomes in a projection isn’t a “poor projection,” it is a realistic one.

[Dr Positivity]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a real bummer to see guys become toxic contracts because they were great players and are getting older? Something needs to be done in the next CBA, no idea what, but the days of players who are generally not great being the most overpaid (Travis Outlaw getting paid for potential, Gilbert Arenas going crazy and getting out of shape) were better than guys like Horford and Westbrook just having good agents, right?

I miss the days of the Mozgov Deng Turner type contracts, I'm sure it will come around though

[PistolPeteJR]

No, it suggests he radically outperformed his expected value.

We are making these evaluations at a point in time, taking a snapshot. People thought age and injuries would seriously hamper Paul, and that was not a bad bet. It was very unlikely Paul would do so well this year - he deserves credit for proving us wrong.

Dr. Positivity is right, It’s hard to argue with the evaluation when he was actually traded for Westbrook in real life, and it took picks to do it.

"Expected" is a super subjective word and not common. If it was common to this thread, that was a mistake based on poor projection.

Maybe we run in different circles, but “expected value” is certainly common for me. It is almost a necessity in valuations based on future production, whether that’s an investment, a used car, or stat production for an nba player.

When we assess the trade value of a player, we are trying to determine whether his future salary will be worth what his future production will be. An expected value is the sum of all the potential outcomes. Paul could have gotten hurt, and older players before him have been injury prone. He could have seen an age related decline in play, and again, older players before him have seen this happen. Including those outcomes in a projection isn’t a “poor projection,” it is a realistic one.

That's my point I guess. "Expected value" suggests it is "expected" by someone, or some group of people.

I don't agree with the logic you present in bold, because many players could fit that criteria.

I hear what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that radically exceeding your expected value seems more like an out vs owning up to the fact that the "expected value" was off in the first place.

[Patsfan1081]

As a Mavs fan, I'd say yes KP should be on the list, in place of Draymond. People can dwell on the triple single, but the Warriors are a completely different team when Draymond is not on the court, as in they are much worse. Dallas has had moments where thye are just as good, if not better when KP sites, so he's the answer

Blake absolutely belong son the list, he's utterly useless these days

Dray is one of the weird cases where actual value doesnt translate to trade value. I'd imagine that only a few teams would be willing to take him on, and at that point, his value starts becoming depressed. If he somehow burned all his GSW bridges, could we get an expiring for him? I just dont think we could.. Frankly my list would look a lot different, with Dray/Russell higher and Klay/Wall lower.

Something like

Westbrook - Griffin - DLo - Love - Draymond - Wiggins - Wall - Horford - KP - Morris

think its crazy Klay was #2 and as crazy to have Harris getting votes at all.. not a fan of Kemba being up there as well with Morris/Bertrans sitting out there either.

Kemba makes so much more annually than those 2, I think he absolutely belongs. I mean there he was a time in the Eat when all you needed was one solid player to make the playoffs, and he barely did that. Now factor in his age and injury concerns, you have to put him in there.

I think Kenna deserves to be up there because it’s still a huge question if he’ll get his first step back, but outside Lebron what single all star carried their team in the playoffs? People are gushing about Kyrie, how did theCavs look without Lebron? Wash with just Beal?

[weekend_warrior]

Just 4 months later, but I feel that this list has already changed quite a bit. Anyone interested in revisiting a little? This is the list from February: (I didn't change the years/money on their contracts, ven though for most here the season is over.)

1. Russell Westbrook (3 years, 132.7 million, includes 3rd year 47.1 million player option) -->should probably drop down a little with his better play
2. Klay Thompson (4 years, 157.2 million) --> still ok, big questionmark
3. John Wall (3 years, 133 million, includes 3rd year 47.4 million player option) --> still ok
4. Kevin Love (3 years, 91.5 million) --> still ok, could be even higher, he's absolutely useless now
5. Blake Griffin (2 years, 75.8 million, includes 2nd year 39.0 million player option) --> bought out, drops off the list
6. D'Angelo Russell (3 years, 90.3 million) --> still ok
7. Andrew Wiggins (3 years, 94.7 million) --> drops a bit lower, maybe even to the dishonorable mentions
8. Draymond Green (4 years, 99.6 million, includes 4th year 27.6 million player option) --> should never have made the list
9. Al Horford (2 years, 54.5 million, plus 26.5 million 3rd year with 12 million guaranteed) --> still ok
10. Kemba Walker (3 years, 108 million, includes 37.6 million 3rd year player option) --> should be way higher

Dishonorable mentions:
Tobias Harris --> overpaid, but really good player, should give his spot on that list to others
Davis Bertans --> could move into the worst 10
Marcus Morris --> could move into the worst 10
Buddy Hield --> still ok
Kristaps Porzingis --> should move into the worst 10
Eric Gordon --> should move into the worst 10


I will give this a try for an updated list:

1. Klay Thompson
2. John Wall
3. Kevin Love
4. Kemba Walker
5. Russell Westbrook
6. D'Angelo Russell
7. Kristaps Porzingis
8. Al Horford
9. Eric Gordon
10. Marcus Morris

Dishonorable mentions:

Davis Bertans
Andrew Wiggins
Buddy Hield
Luke Kennard
Kyle Kuzma
CJ McCollum

[vxmike]

Just 4 months later, but I feel that this list has already changed quite a bit. Anyone interested in revisiting a little? This is the list from February: (I didn't change the years/money on their contracts, ven though for most here the season is over.)

1. Russell Westbrook (3 years, 132.7 million, includes 3rd year 47.1 million player option) -->should probably drop down a little with his better play
2. Klay Thompson (4 years, 157.2 million) --> still ok, big questionmark
3. John Wall (3 years, 133 million, includes 3rd year 47.4 million player option) --> still ok
4. Kevin Love (3 years, 91.5 million) --> still ok, could be even higher, he's absolutely useless now
5. Blake Griffin (2 years, 75.8 million, includes 2nd year 39.0 million player option) --> bought out, drops off the list
6. D'Angelo Russell (3 years, 90.3 million) --> still ok
7. Andrew Wiggins (3 years, 94.7 million) --> drops a bit lower, maybe even to the dishonorable mentions
8. Draymond Green (4 years, 99.6 million, includes 4th year 27.6 million player option) --> should never have made the list
9. Al Horford (2 years, 54.5 million, plus 26.5 million 3rd year with 12 million guaranteed) --> still ok
10. Kemba Walker (3 years, 108 million, includes 37.6 million 3rd year player option) --> should be way higher

Dishonorable mentions:
Tobias Harris --> overpaid, but really good player, should give his spot on that list to others
Davis Bertans --> could move into the worst 10
Marcus Morris --> could move into the worst 10
Buddy Hield --> still ok
Kristaps Porzingis --> should move into the worst 10
Eric Gordon --> should move into the worst 10


I will give this a try for an updated list:

1. Klay Thompson
2. John Wall
3. Kevin Love
4. Kemba Walker
5. Russell Westbrook
6. D'Angelo Russell
7. Kristaps Porzingis
8. Al Horford
9. Eric Gordon
10. Marcus Morris

Dishonorable mentions:

Davis Bertans
Andrew Wiggins
Buddy Hield
Luke Kennard
Kyle Kuzma
CJ McCollum

I like your updated list except Westbrook. With his resurgent play he’s easily the best player in your worst 10. Who would you rather have in your team even considering the $$? Give me WB over Wiggins any day even considering the salary difference.

[weekend_warrior]

I like your updated list except Westbrook. With his resurgent play he’s easily the best player in your worst 10. Who would you rather have in your team even considering the $$? Give me WB over Wiggins any day even considering the salary difference.

I can understand your point. I was thinking about a slightly lower position of Westbrook, but I am just not sold on him really.

I think that it's just close to impossible to create a title winning team around him as the dominant player. And the way he plays, he always ends up as the dominant player. That's good enough to drag a team into the first round of the PO but there it pretty much ends. That's worth something and it's for sure entertaining, but there are a bunch of players on this list that I would take over Westbrook on a contending team. Including Wiggins tbh (as a no3 option of course).

I would be okay with a position for Westbrook as low as 7 on this list. But that's really it.

[E S V L]

7. Andrew Wiggins (3 years, 94.7 million) --> drops a bit lower, maybe even to the dishonorable mentions

Wish should not substitute reality. He should stay in this list until his final contract year. I am really sorry.

[NYG]

Arriving to this list soon...

Dennis Schroder
Lauri Markkanen
Tim Hardaway Jr.

[gswhoops]

7. Andrew Wiggins (3 years, 94.7 million) --> drops a bit lower, maybe even to the dishonorable mentions

Wish should not substitute reality. He should stay in this list until his final contract year. I am really sorry.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but the way I see the list there’s a couple truly awful deals right now (Klay, Wall, Love, Dlo) and the rest is really in the eye of the beholder based on team need, positional fit, etc.

One team’s #5 could be another team’s #15 and vice versa

[E S V L]

7. Andrew Wiggins (3 years, 94.7 million) --> drops a bit lower, maybe even to the dishonorable mentions

Wish should not substitute reality. He should stay in this list until his final contract year. I am really sorry.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but the way I see the list there’s a couple truly awful deals right now (Klay, Wall, Love, Dlo) and the rest is really in the eye of the beholder based on team need, positional fit, etc.

One team’s #5 could be another team’s #15 and vice versa

I see your point. He is still making this top-10 easily though.

[Texas Chuck]

Arriving to this list soon...

Dennis Schroder
Lauri Markkanen
Tim Hardaway Jr.

I honestly don't think any of them are going to get contracts big enough for that to happen. Dennis already passed on the best offer he was going to get which would have been a candidate perhaps, but at his actual number just too small.

Lauri and Timmy should both come in under $20M per and right now at least one could argue Tim is worth $18M.

I'm much more worried about guys who are actually going to get big deals. I defend Chris Paul but if he really gets a new 3 year deal gtd. Jimmy Butler signing a 4 year max extension terrifies me. Someone getting silly on Lonzo worries me more. John Collins making $25M over 4 years could age badly.

Medium contracts are hard pressed to make the list.

[weekend_warrior]

Yes, I agree that the top 10 shouldn't be seen as a hard cut. My disHM list pretty much a continuation in order with very little separating some of these candidates.

@ESVL:

I really don't want to make this a discussion about Wiggins. I think it's fair to assume though that he has improved his stock a little: One year less on the contract, so only 2 years left. Has proven himself as a durable player that can fit in offensively on a competitive team and play very solid defense. At this point I consider him overpaid by maybe 10m.

But please elaborate which players should be moved drown the list here so that Wiggins can "easily make the top10". To me that means you see several players in there with higher value. If have a hard time to identify those as there are imo many who are equally overpaid while being less durable (reaching even the "street clothes" label).

Mostly interested to see if my assessment of any of those players is way off.