[Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Nuggets

[Odinn21]

1. 2019 Nikola Jokic
The clear cut #1 choice in here. He was a slightly better player in 2020 but in terms of complete season, this one takes the cake for me.

2. 1994 Dikembe Mutombo
Well, as I said earlier, I had Mutombo as my #2 initially. I looked at some important postseason games, and I have to say that the gap between him and the others are even bigger. Yeah, the competition is indeed stiff with Billups, Jones, English, Iverson and a couple of others. But this was legit "Bill Russell in modern day" type of sh.t. If anything, watching those games made me have Deke closer to Jokic.

3. 1985 Alex English
One of the great scoring machines of the '80s at his very best. It was quite a significant season from him. He led his team to a top 5 offense without giving up more on defense. His performance, his output were quite good.

4. 1976 Bobby Jones
In terms of sheer quality, he was better than English, one could even make a case for him over Deke for that. But total value of a season, with total playtime in mind, is not looking that great for him. Well, obviously great enough to have him over the others but not great enough to have him over English.

5. 2009 Chauncey Billups
I had Billups, Iverson, Anthony, Issel and Lever in mind for this spot. Iverson, Anthony and Issel had bigger box numbers but less impact, and looking at the gaps in box numbers and impact numbers, Billups is the winner of the bunch. 1988 Lever was the last man standing against Billups. The decider for that was Lever missing 4 of 11 postseason games. If there wasn't any missed games, I'd probably prefer Lever over Billups.

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This one has a little more than 5 hours left on the clock.

[HeartBreakKid]

1) 2020 Nikola Jokic - It seems like during the top 100 I found out that some people don't think that Jokic has been a superstar for a while and that this is his first year. I've had Jokic as the 2nd best player in the league since 2019, and this year he might even be THE best (though it doesn't count obviously). I mean the reasons are pretty obvious, and there is no other superstar in Nuggets history that can even really challenge him.

2) 1994 Dikembe Mutumbo - Monster defensive impact, like top 5, top ten at a minimum level. He averaged 6 blocks per game in the playoffs, and upset the 8th seed as the 1st with no other major players on his team. Jokic is pretty much the only championship centerpiece in the Nuggets history, so you're looking at who can be the best #2 - and an all time great defender is pretty hard to overlook here.

3) 2009 Chauncey Billups - I actually think Chauncey was underrated in the late 2000s. I suppose a mix of him not really being a true star and being old makes it easy to overlook him. I thought Billups around this time played like a real pass first PG but because he has other well rounded attributes (like Frazier) he never got this distinction as a great passer. Anyway, he does everything at a high level. Good defense, shooting, passing, floor generalship, leadership, decent scorer. He is an 18 PPG on 60 TS% guy in a time when the average was like 54 %, and in the playoffs he averaged 66 TS% on higher volume on route to the WCF. His utility as well as his overall playoff effectiveness make him a more valuable player than a lot of the guys who are too slanted toward huge volume scoring like English, Thompson, Issel, Iverson and Anthony.

4) 1978 Bobby Jones - Might be a top 5 defender at his position. His vertical movement and motor would be a wonder to see int today's game. He played very good team basketball, never held the ball too long, wasn't shy to put the ball in the hoop when he was expected to, he kept moving for cuts and so forth. Kind of an ultimate glue guy. Again, he seems more useful than the big volume scoring Nuggets.

5) 1985 Alex English - His scoring seems no less effective than the other scorers. Guys like Thompson, Anthony and Iverson don't have the best playoff resumes scoring wise. Not only is English arguably a better scorer than everyone left, but he is also a bit more versatile. He can play off ball better than most of half of the other big time scorers left, and he is a better defender than all of them pretty much. His passing is decent enough.


In addition to the scorers I mentioned I think I'd give a major honorable mention to Fat Lever who I see as a mini Jason Kidd. I actually think I might give Fat Lever my 6th place vote.

I'm going to change my 5th place vote from 1985 Alex English to 1988 Fat Lever.

I'm not really going to punish Fat for missing a few post season games. After watching a couple of games I feel like he controls the pace of those Nuggets teams very well. His scoring is whatever, but everything else he does is really damn good. A very unique player.

Kind of a coin flip with him and English, but my gut is saying go with Lever.

[HeartBreakKid]

1. 2019/20 Nikola Jokic - his RS wasn't amazing, but I think he's been improving every year since his rookie season, so I decided to go with 2020 over 2019.

2. 1993/94 Dikembe Mutombo - this is one of the most underrated individual seasons in NBA history. He's overshadowed by Hakeem and Admiral, a bit like Gobert is now with Jokic and Embiid. His postseason is among the greatest defensive carryjobs I've ever seen. People don't realize how impactful he was because he didn't put up high scoring numbers, but I'd take that run over 95% of offensive anchors easily. Russell-esque season, unfortunately Nuggets were never good enough to reach the finals.

To be honest, I'm shocked that some people don't have Mutombo inside top 5...

3. 1976/77 Bobby Jones - I always felt that he was the most important player for this team. Spectacular defender and good all-around offensive player who didn't need the ball in his hands.

4. 2008/09 Chauncey Billups - very strong offensive season from consistent PG.

5. 1984/85 Alex English - I thought about Thompson, Haywood and Melo, but I decided to go with the player with the best skillset all-around. English was comparable scorer to Melo and unlike Anthony, he could do other things well on the court.

Haywood could be slightly underrated because of lack of footage, but from what I've seen he wasn't a good defender and he wasn't that smart either. He was very athletic when he was young, but I'm afraid his stats overrates him a bit. I'd probably take Melo and Thompson over him.

Before I changed my vote from Alex English to Fat Lever our list was almost exactly the same. Just swap Bobby Jones and Chauncey Billups place.

[70sFan]

1. 2019/20 Nikola Jokic - his RS wasn't amazing, but I think he's been improving every year since his rookie season, so I decided to go with 2020 over 2019.

2. 1993/94 Dikembe Mutombo - this is one of the most underrated individual seasons in NBA history. He's overshadowed by Hakeem and Admiral, a bit like Gobert is now with Jokic and Embiid. His postseason is among the greatest defensive carryjobs I've ever seen. People don't realize how impactful he was because he didn't put up high scoring numbers, but I'd take that run over 95% of offensive anchors easily. Russell-esque season, unfortunately Nuggets were never good enough to reach the finals.

To be honest, I'm shocked that some people don't have Mutombo inside top 5...

3. 1976/77 Bobby Jones - I always felt that he was the most important player for this team. Spectacular defender and good all-around offensive player who didn't need the ball in his hands.

4. 2008/09 Chauncey Billups - very strong offensive season from consistent PG.

5. 1984/85 Alex English - I thought about Thompson, Haywood and Melo, but I decided to go with the player with the best skillset all-around. English was comparable scorer to Melo and unlike Anthony, he could do other things well on the court.

Haywood could be slightly underrated because of lack of footage, but from what I've seen he wasn't a good defender and he wasn't that smart either. He was very athletic when he was young, but I'm afraid his stats overrates him a bit. I'd probably take Melo and Thompson over him.

Before I changed my vote from Alex English to Fat Lever our list was almost exactly the same. Just swap Bobby Jones and Chauncey Billups place.

I was thinking if I don't underrate English a bit. Did you find anything notabel during rewatching these games recently, that made you leave English off the list? Or is it because of bigger impression of Lever?

[Odinn21]

The Nuggets results;

Code: Select all

1. 9-0-0-0-0 / 90 points / 1.000 share / '19 Nikola Jokic
2. 0-2-4-3-0 / 43 points / 0.478 share / '77 Bobby Jones
3. 0-4-1-0-1 / 34 points / 0.378 share / '94 Dikembe Mutombo
4. 0-1-1-2-4 / 22 points / 0.244 share / '85 Alex English
5. 0-1-1-2-3 / 21 points / 0.233 share / '09 Chauncey Billups

6. 0-0-1-1-3 /  8 points / 0.089 share / '88 Fat Lever
7. 0-1-0-0-0 /  7 points / 0.078 share / '70 Spencer Haywood
8. 0-0-1-0-0 /  5 points / 0.056 share / '78 David Thompson
9. 0-0-0-1-1 /  4 points / 0.044 share / '08 Allen Iverson

Results on Google Sheet

[Odinn21]

Sorry for the speed bump.

Mutombo not being #2 in here, especially him being left off of 3 in 9 ballots, that went down as one of my bigger disagreements in this project.

By the way, can we please go back to 10+ votes per threads? I couldn't participate as much as I'd like to but come on.

[Dr Positivity]

I'm surprised I'm the only one to vote Thompson. Seems like a toss up with English to me.

[KobesScarf]

Billups does not belong in even the top 15

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I'm actually really surprised that not a single person gave even a #4 or #5 vote to Melo.

[70sFan]

I'm surprised I'm the only one to vote Thompson. Seems like a toss up with English to me.

I think it's because of playoffs, Thompson never proved to be as resiliant as English.

[Owly]

Billups does not belong in even the top 15

This seems unlikely.

But lets see

We'll take the actual votes board minus Billups who was at 5
1 '19 Nikola Jokic
2 '77 Bobby Jones
3 '94 Dikembe Mutombo
4 '85 Alex English
5 '88 Fat Lever
6 '70 Spencer Haywood
7 '78 David Thompson
8 '08 Allen Iverson

Anyone else mentioned ...
9 Issel
10 Carmelo
11 Natt
12 Vandeweghe
13 Nene
14 Murray

Assuming you have all those ahead and he's not top 15 you have to have at least one more. Gallo? Lawson? Camby? Miller? McDyess? Adams? McGinnis? Larry Jones?

Maybe you could make that case ... but without the case, without the process of how you came to differ wildly from the group it's hard to get much from telling them they're wrong.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm actually really surprised that not a single person gave even a #4 or #5 vote to Melo.

Me too. I'm notoriously low on Melo but I still almost voted for him. Thought others would be higher.

[wojoaderge]

Billups does not belong in even the top 15

This seems unlikely.

But lets see

We'll take the actual votes board minus Billups who was at 5
1 '19 Nikola Jokic
2 '77 Bobby Jones
3 '94 Dikembe Mutombo
4 '85 Alex English
5 '88 Fat Lever
6 '70 Spencer Haywood
7 '78 David Thompson
8 '08 Allen Iverson

Anyone else mentioned ...
9 Issel
10 Carmelo
11 Natt
12 Vandeweghe
13 Nene
14 Murray

Assuming you have all those ahead and he's not top 15 you have to have at least one more. Gallo? Lawson? Camby? Miller? McDyess? Adams? McGinnis? Larry Jones?

Maybe you could make that case ... but without the case, without the process of how you came to differ wildly from the group it's hard to get much from telling them they're wrong.

Ralph Simpson
Mack Calvin

[Dr Positivity]

Melo's best playoff run (09) doesn't really coincide with his best regular season with Nuggets, not to mention it's pretty debatable whether he was ever good enough anyways, I prefer English and Thompson pretty handily.

[HeartBreakKid]

1. 2019/20 Nikola Jokic - his RS wasn't amazing, but I think he's been improving every year since his rookie season, so I decided to go with 2020 over 2019.

2. 1993/94 Dikembe Mutombo - this is one of the most underrated individual seasons in NBA history. He's overshadowed by Hakeem and Admiral, a bit like Gobert is now with Jokic and Embiid. His postseason is among the greatest defensive carryjobs I've ever seen. People don't realize how impactful he was because he didn't put up high scoring numbers, but I'd take that run over 95% of offensive anchors easily. Russell-esque season, unfortunately Nuggets were never good enough to reach the finals.

To be honest, I'm shocked that some people don't have Mutombo inside top 5...

3. 1976/77 Bobby Jones - I always felt that he was the most important player for this team. Spectacular defender and good all-around offensive player who didn't need the ball in his hands.

4. 2008/09 Chauncey Billups - very strong offensive season from consistent PG.

5. 1984/85 Alex English - I thought about Thompson, Haywood and Melo, but I decided to go with the player with the best skillset all-around. English was comparable scorer to Melo and unlike Anthony, he could do other things well on the court.

Haywood could be slightly underrated because of lack of footage, but from what I've seen he wasn't a good defender and he wasn't that smart either. He was very athletic when he was young, but I'm afraid his stats overrates him a bit. I'd probably take Melo and Thompson over him.

Before I changed my vote from Alex English to Fat Lever our list was almost exactly the same. Just swap Bobby Jones and Chauncey Billups place.

I was thinking if I don't underrate English a bit. Did you find anything notabel during rewatching these games recently, that made you leave English off the list? Or is it because of bigger impression of Lever?

Just came away thinking higher of Lever.

[KobesScarf]

Billups does not belong in even the top 15

This seems unlikely.

But lets see

We'll take the actual votes board minus Billups who was at 5
1 '19 Nikola Jokic
2 '77 Bobby Jones
3 '94 Dikembe Mutombo
4 '85 Alex English
5 '88 Fat Lever
6 '70 Spencer Haywood
7 '78 David Thompson
8 '08 Allen Iverson

Anyone else mentioned ...
9 Issel
10 Carmelo
11 Natt
12 Vandeweghe
13 Nene
14 Murray

Assuming you have all those ahead and he's not top 15 you have to have at least one more. Gallo? Lawson? Camby? Miller? McDyess? Adams? McGinnis? Larry Jones?

Maybe you could make that case ... but without the case, without the process of how you came to differ wildly from the group it's hard to get much from telling them they're wrong.

The app kept crashing when I was trying to edit that post. Not top 15 is maybe a slight exaggeration

Melo Thompson Issel Mutombo Murray Jokic Haywood English Lever Iverson Vandeweghe Calvin Sampson all clearly better seasons. Could make the case for Lawson and Jones too.

[Owly]

Billups does not belong in even the top 15

This seems unlikely.

But lets see

We'll take the actual votes board minus Billups who was at 5
1 '19 Nikola Jokic
2 '77 Bobby Jones
3 '94 Dikembe Mutombo
4 '85 Alex English
5 '88 Fat Lever
6 '70 Spencer Haywood
7 '78 David Thompson
8 '08 Allen Iverson

Anyone else mentioned ...
9 Issel
10 Carmelo
11 Natt
12 Vandeweghe
13 Nene
14 Murray

Assuming you have all those ahead and he's not top 15 you have to have at least one more. Gallo? Lawson? Camby? Miller? McDyess? Adams? McGinnis? Larry Jones?

Maybe you could make that case ... but without the case, without the process of how you came to differ wildly from the group it's hard to get much from telling them they're wrong.

The app kept crashing when I was trying to edit that post. Not top 15 is maybe a slight exaggeration

Melo Thompson Issel Mutombo Murray Jokic Haywood English Lever Iverson Vandeweghe Calvin Sampson [sic] all clearly better seasons. Could make the case for Lawson and Jones too.

I'm struck by two things here ...

1) You do realize - and you posted after the thread finished - Jones who you are unsure on came second and doubled Billups's vote share. Billups thus seems a curious primary point of contention, any reason you focus on him?
2) You have Simpson "clearly" better? 1972: 20.0 PER, .115 WS/48. Or 1975: 17.3 PER, .120 WS/48, 1.4 BPM? Or both?