Where would Peak Kevin Garnett Rank today?

[70sFan]

So KG wouldn't be better than Harden or Doncic because he didn't score enough? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. I'm not buying Davis > KG either.

[feyki]

So KG wouldn't be better than Harden or Doncic because he didn't score enough? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. I'm not buying Davis > KG either.

They are much, much better offensive players. Much better playmakers, much better scorers, had much higher creations, Harden also had much better efficiency.

Davis is better offensive player and this is a 115 offensive rating league, but I didn't say AD is better than 04 KG in todays game. I would rank Giannis,KG and AD equally for the 2021. But would rank KG above than the two for the 2004.

[70sFan]

So KG wouldn't be better than Harden or Doncic because he didn't score enough? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. I'm not buying Davis > KG either.

They are much, much better offensive players. Much better playmakers, much better scorers, had much higher creations, Harden also had much better efficiency.

Davis is better offensive player and this is a 115 offensive rating league, but I didn't say AD is better than 04 KG in todays game. I would rank Giannis,KG and AD equally for the 2021. But would rank KG above than the two for the 2004.

So you have Doncic and Harden ahead of Giannis, right? Then there is no point to continue this discussion, as we have much different views on the basics of basketball.

[feyki]

So KG wouldn't be better than Harden or Doncic because he didn't score enough? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. I'm not buying Davis > KG either.

They are much, much better offensive players. Much better playmakers, much better scorers, had much higher creations, Harden also had much better efficiency.

Davis is better offensive player and this is a 115 offensive rating league, but I didn't say AD is better than 04 KG in todays game. I would rank Giannis,KG and AD equally for the 2021. But would rank KG above than the two for the 2004.

So you have Doncic and Harden ahead of Giannis, right? Then there is no point to continue this discussion, as we have much different views on the basics of basketball.

Switch Doncic and Giannis teams and see what happens.

[70sFan]

They are much, much better offensive players. Much better playmakers, much better scorers, had much higher creations, Harden also had much better efficiency.

Davis is better offensive player and this is a 115 offensive rating league, but I didn't say AD is better than 04 KG in todays game. I would rank Giannis,KG and AD equally for the 2021. But would rank KG above than the two for the 2004.

So you have Doncic and Harden ahead of Giannis, right? Then there is no point to continue this discussion, as we have much different views on the basics of basketball.

Switch Doncic and Giannis teams and see what happens.

Bucks would have to wait another decades for the first ring. Did I get it right?

[feyki]

So you have Doncic and Harden ahead of Giannis, right? Then there is no point to continue this discussion, as we have much different views on the basics of basketball.

Switch Doncic and Giannis teams and see what happens.

Bucks would have to wait another decades for the first ring. Did I get it right?

Imagine Doncic with two all star and one of the best rotiation in the league and Giannis with Porzingis, Hardaway and one of the worst rotation in the league.

Bucks easily would be 10+ SRS team.

[70sFan]

Switch Doncic and Giannis teams and see what happens.

Bucks would have to wait another decades for the first ring. Did I get it right?

Imagine Doncic with two all star and one of the best rotiation in the league and Giannis with Porzingis, Hardaway and one of the worst rotation in the league.

Bucks easily would be 10+ SRS team.

Doncic played with one of the best benches in the league and better spacing in 2020. His team was elite offensively without him on the floor, yet he didn't turn them into 10+SRS team.

I'm not denying that Doncic had worse team last year than Giannis, but I see no reason to believe that Doncic would turn them into GOAT level. Luka isn't that impactful even on his team.

[70sFan]

Switch Doncic and Giannis teams and see what happens.

Bucks would have to wait another decades for the first ring. Did I get it right?

Imagine Doncic with two all star and one of the best rotiation in the league and Giannis with Porzingis, Hardaway and one of the worst rotation in the league.

Bucks easily would be 10+ SRS team.

Doncic played with one of the best benches in the league and better spacing in 2020. His team was elite offensively without him on the floor, yet he didn't turn them into 10+SRS team.

I'm not denying that Doncic had worse team last year than Giannis, but I see no reason to believe that Doncic would turn them into GOAT level. Luka isn't that impactful even on his team.

[feyki]

Bucks would have to wait another decades for the first ring. Did I get it right?

Imagine Doncic with two all star and one of the best rotiation in the league and Giannis with Porzingis, Hardaway and one of the worst rotation in the league.

Bucks easily would be 10+ SRS team.

Doncic played with one of the best benches in the league and better spacing in 2020. His team was elite offensively without him on the floor, yet he didn't turn them into 10+SRS team.

I'm not denying that Doncic had worse team last year than Giannis, but I see no reason to believe that Doncic would turn them into GOAT level. Luka isn't that impactful even on his team.

Yep, his team elite but when he played worse by his standards Clippers beat them by 25. Doncic had 5 SRS team without even an above average player. With two all-star and best rotation in the league, easily 10+ SRS team he would have. Even Bucks fourth best player was better than Mavs second best player, it's just ironic to talk it. You're pushing so hard.

[70sFan]

Imagine Doncic with two all star and one of the best rotiation in the league and Giannis with Porzingis, Hardaway and one of the worst rotation in the league.

Bucks easily would be 10+ SRS team.

Doncic played with one of the best benches in the league and better spacing in 2020. His team was elite offensively without him on the floor, yet he didn't turn them into 10+SRS team.

I'm not denying that Doncic had worse team last year than Giannis, but I see no reason to believe that Doncic would turn them into GOAT level. Luka isn't that impactful even on his team.

Yep, his team elite but when he played worse by his standards Clippers beat them by 25. Doncic had 5 SRS team without even an above average player. With two all-star and best rotation in the league, easily 10+ SRS team he would have. Even Bucks fourth best player was better than Mavs second best player, it's just ironic to talk it. You're pushing so hard.

You base your whole argument on single games samples (AD 2 games vs Suns before, one Mavs game vs Clippers now) but I am thr one who pushes so hard?

[ty 4191]

What's the argument against Peak Garnett being a top 5 player today?

I just don't see it. For one, he played his prime in a much lower scoring/volume era, and still averaged 22 points a game for 11 consecutive seasons. The league averaged 95 ppg those years, 110 the last 5 years...he'd probably be averaging 26 ppg, min, for a decade in today's game.

He was tremendous both offensively and defensively. I believe there are only 5 players in NBA history with 90 or more Offensive Win Shares AND 90 or more Defensive Win Shares, career:

Wilt
Kareem
Garnett
Duncan
Malone

He was also extremely adaptable/versatile. He played about 67% of his plays at PF, 25% at C, and 8% at SF.

He has to be a top 5 power forward, all time, no?

[mikejames23]

I would say he's Top 5. He's worse than Steph Curry. He has arguments over Giannis and Jokic. I would predict Jokic outdoes him statistically and dominates all criteria like he has been. Curry on the other hand is the champion that can win you 73 games and dominate the 3 point line. This year, Curry's +/- has wrecked the league in its entirety. Giannis depending on the year can be outstanding in the playoffs and is a perennial MVP type figure.

I would probably put KG at #2 - #4, but this year's far from over. Durant is the only guy left and he can make a mark for himself too. There's also Kawhi if he can return healthy. LeBron I am pretty sure is well out of his good days and doesn't have an argument over peak KG.

It would be interesting to see how KG can lead this version of T-Wolves back to relevancy and into the playoffs. IMO, T-Wolves would see a massive comeback if they added peak KG to their roster.

[ceiling raiser]

Kevin Garnett is the most underrated player in NBA history, and one of the most underrated players on this board.

[No-more-rings]

Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Garnett was the best player in the league at his peak when guys like Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Kobe, Tmac, and many others were in their primes still. You're definitely selling him short by labeling him a merely top 10 guy.

I'm confident he'd be the best defender in the league today, and i find it strange you question his offensive impact considering how well his shooting and passing would fit in today's small ball stuff. There's no reasonable way he's any lower than 4 or 5.

Duncan was not his peak, first. Shaq, also. And he was not better than offensive forces like Nash,Kobe,Dirk after the rule change. Even the offence pie in the game now much higher than mid 00's.

Duncan was one year past his peak and was 27, he was right in the middle of his prime and KG was better. You can't just dance around that widely accepted opinion. Shaq was further removed from his peak sure but still a force. Not sure what you're talking about with that second part. KG was considered by some to be the best player in the game in 08 as well. Rule changes did not hurt his impact somehow.

Between 02-08, KG only had 2 seasons where he didn't finish top 10 in RAPM and 3 of those he ranked 1st. I'm confused as to why you ignore defense so much when talking about impact. If you think that little of defense idk how Bill Russell even makes your top 20 all time.

[ty 4191]

Kevin Garnett is the most underrated player in NBA history, and one of the most underrated players on this board.

He might be the most underrated player in NBA history. Great point.

Why isn't he mentioned more and rated higher on this board?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HWQLTqFcJdJJNvMFDAwikJXujuh75uajUPrE0eF2XXc/edit#gid=0

Look like 11th, 12th, and 11th the last three polls amongst everyone here.

[ceiling raiser]

Kevin Garnett is the most underrated player in NBA history, and one of the most underrated players on this board.

He might be the most underrated player in NBA history. Great point.

Why isn't he mentioned more and rated higher on this board?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HWQLTqFcJdJJNvMFDAwikJXujuh75uajUPrE0eF2XXc/edit#gid=0

Look like 11th, 12th, and 11th the last three polls amongst everyone here.

I am a bit higher on KG than that but that range isn’t unfair. The thing is, KG supporters are more likely to post in projects than KG detractors or people without a strong opinion one way or the other. The PC board as a whole isn’t particularly high on KG, and the general board is probably pretty close to the general public on his position.

[feyki]

Garnett was the best player in the league at his peak when guys like Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Kobe, Tmac, and many others were in their primes still. You're definitely selling him short by labeling him a merely top 10 guy.

I'm confident he'd be the best defender in the league today, and i find it strange you question his offensive impact considering how well his shooting and passing would fit in today's small ball stuff. There's no reasonable way he's any lower than 4 or 5.

Duncan was not his peak, first. Shaq, also. And he was not better than offensive forces like Nash,Kobe,Dirk after the rule change. Even the offence pie in the game now much higher than mid 00's.

Duncan was one year past his peak and was 27, he was right in the middle of his prime and KG was better. You can't just dance around that widely accepted opinion. Shaq was further removed from his peak sure but still a force. Not sure what you're talking about with that second part. KG was considered by some to be the best player in the game in 08 as well. Rule changes did not hurt his impact somehow.

Between 02-08, KG only had 2 seasons where he didn't finish top 10 in RAPM and 3 of those he ranked 1st. I'm confused as to why you ignore defense so much when talking about impact. If you think that little of defense idk how Bill Russell even makes your top 20 all time.

Just one time finished top 5 in the mvp votings and that was because of his team success. His average between 05/07 in the mvp voting is out of top 10. But before the rule change, his average place is 4,5 in the 5 mvp votings(00/04). Seems he affected too much by the change.

Duncan was one year away from his peak, but you can't compare his 03 and 04. Shaq was away from his peak, specially offensively. But to be honest, They were historic impact players in that year. To the point, Garnett's impact in the offence-orient game, post rule change Dirk,Kobe compare accurately in our debate. And he had been a worse player than them after the rule change, but was way better than them before the rule change. The point is this.

The topic is asking for today, all time rank is another debate.