Holy CRAP. FIRE CASEY.

[Billl]

He's not going anywhere. He's here to develop young guys, not win games.

[dVs33]

He's not going anywhere. He's here to develop young guys, not win games.

This. It’s been rough to watch recently, but this year is a tank year. If guys could hit open shots it wouldn’t be so painful to watch either, but that’s not Casey’s fault

[GreekAlex]

He's not going anywhere. He's here to develop young guys, not win games.

This. It’s been rough to watch recently, but this year is a tank year. If guys could hit open shots it wouldn’t be so painful to watch either, but that’s not Casey’s fault

I’m not ready to fire coach Casey but it seems like the team has really regressed from last season.

At the end of last season the team had to “load manage” Grant, Plumlee and others not to ruin the tank.

I understand that there was roster turn over and some injuries but what concerns me is how the players look generally uncomfortable, forcing things and don’t have as much fight as last season.

[sfballa13]

He's not going anywhere. He's here to develop young guys, not win games.

This. It’s been rough to watch recently, but this year is a tank year. If guys could hit open shots it wouldn’t be so painful to watch either, but that’s not Casey’s fault

I’m not ready to fire coach Casey but it seems like the team has really regressed from last season.

At the end of last season the team had to “load manage” Grant, Plumlee and others not to ruin the tank.

I understand that there was roster turn over and some injuries but what concerns me is how the players look generally uncomfortable, forcing things and don’t have as much fight as last season.

Our young guys like Bey/Stewart are one year older, Grant should be more comfortable in his role, and Weaver made all these 4D chess moves to get rid of guys he bent over backwards to sign.

Adding the consensus #1 pick in the draft and regressing this much is not acceptable.

Either Casey is holding him back or we drafted a bust, it's that simple

The fact that Weaver and Gores signed this idiot to an extension speaks volumes.

I know this means another top 5 pick but given our last two picks (Cade/Hayes) can we even trust Weaver to make the right call.

Hopefully someone buys the Pistons and saves the team from another year with this coke addict of an owner

[Pistonrings]

He's not going anywhere. He's here to develop young guys, not win games.

This. It’s been rough to watch recently, but this year is a tank year. If guys could hit open shots it wouldn’t be so painful to watch either, but that’s not Casey’s fault

Imo, IT IS Casey's fault. His offense doesn't allow for 3 pointers that are in the flow from inside out and this is the biggest reason we are last in the league in 3 percentage.

Delaying the young guys development is hurting them. I don't believe for a second that Killian and Cade both have shot horribly in their first years. The situation with Cade's shot looks easily familiar to Killian last year, and look at Bey? I don't believe these things are unconnected to Casey's offense for a second.

He isn't going anywhere this season. The best we can hope for is that Weaver steps in and orders Casey to let someone else install a normal offense.

After the season, Weaver then might do something. Casey isn't actually helping these young players, I believe he is hurting them. Just delaying their development is hurting them and he may be teaching them crap that they will need to unlearn after he is gone.

Hopefully he will get the boot after the season, no way Weaver fires him during the season.

[zeebneeb]

While I think it's legitimate to wonder if Weaver would have a clear plan for replacement and acknowledging again the stupidity of the extension probably means Casey has a long leash right now, I do think at some point basic accountability needs to be in order. Pistons don't just suck - I never thought they were making the playoffs.

They are beyond suck. I like watching an OKC game now and then to see how young players develop, but Pistons don't mount to a basic, NBA watchable-but-losing team right now.

If this continues and the Pistons are on pace to set records as the worst offensive team ever and they become more and more of a laughing stock in this league - not just a bad team developing young players - changes will come.

Truth is anyone watching these games right now is that the Pistons aren't losing, they're embarrassing themselves. A simple win streak or just more competent ball could change things for sure, but I don't see Casey making it through this year at this rate.

See, this is what I'm trying to say here, and some are confusing it with "win now".

No, absolutely not. This is about putting an actual NBA product on the floor. This team has played so poorly it's an embarrassment to the city, the league, and the teams history. This is 100% Casey's fault. It's not as if the team is void of talent, that's absurd.

It's about making sure the team is ready to play, both defense, and offense. It's about running pro level schemes, making sensible rotations, and playing to the players strengths.

Why is the team not running?

Why is the team shooting 37 threes a game?

Why are there almost zero post plays run?

Why are the bench rotations set to a clock?

Why are cojo and lyles playing so many minutes?

Why are pick and rolls/pops so poorly executed, or not run at all?

Why is There absolutely no movement in offensive play calls?

Why are the players who room was made for, and contracts signed not playing when the team is playing so damn poorly?

Instead of firing Casey, perhaps force him to work with an offensive coordinator of sorts?

This "product" is historically bad. This cannot continue.

[El Chivo]

He's not going anywhere. He's here to develop young guys, not win games.

He's ruining young guys, instead.

[DetroitDon15]

I watch this team and it’s offense is basic. I agree. We do lack some talent but we don’t have a true point guard. Watching Hayes play the 1 is brutal. We need a true point guard if Casey won’t give the keys to Cade right now.

[whitehops]

casey isn't a perfect coach, i don't think anyone is going to argue that. but for our purposes i think he's great right now.

people can say the offense is stagnant, there's no ball movement, etc. but we literally LEAD THE LEAGUE in passes made per game. we're actually top ten in potential assists, despite having the third least ACTUAL assists per game. our isolation rate is firmly middle of the pack - it's fair to say that's too high given our talent but i'll address that later.

we are third in the league at generating WIDE OPEN three point attempts (6+ feet of space) BUT we are second last in the league at hitting them at 31.7%. more than half the three point attempts we take are considered to be wide open.


so we're actually moving the ball really well, we're actually generating great looks in our offense but casey is the reason we have a terrible offense? instead of firing casey personally i think it's more important for the fans to realize that the team severely lacks talent and we're going to be playing pretty ugly basketball until that changes. what's important in the meantime is that casey has the team playing hard and making them play "the right way", as in play a good team game and the young guys all seem to be doing that so far.

[Pistonrings]

casey isn't a perfect coach, i don't think anyone is going to argue that. but for our purposes i think he's great right now.

people can say the offense is stagnant, there's no ball movement, etc. but we literally LEAD THE LEAGUE in passes made per game. we're actually top ten in potential assists, despite having the third least ACTUAL assists per game. our isolation rate is firmly middle of the pack - it's fair to say that's too high given our talent but i'll address that later.

we are third in the league at generating WIDE OPEN three point attempts (6+ feet of space) BUT we are second last in the league at hitting them at 31.7%. more than half the three point attempts we take are considered to be wide open.


so we're actually moving the ball really well, we're actually generating great looks in our offense but casey is the reason we have a terrible offense? instead of firing casey personally i think it's more important for the fans to realize that the team severely lacks talent and we're going to be playing pretty ugly basketball until that changes. what's important in the meantime is that casey has the team playing hard and making them play "the right way", as in play a good team game and the young guys all seem to be doing that so far.

You have missed our points. There is a difference in taking an open 3 that is not in a flow of a complete offense and taking one that is in the flow of an offense where you. Take them with no time to THINK ABOUT THE SHOT. Most of our made 3 pointers, if you are watching, come from quick shots in the flow where the shooter has no time to DWELL on the shot but just takes it in a quick rhythm. To me it is clear that we aren't taking 3 pointers with CONVICTION and rhythm and this is exactly why we are at the bottom of the league and this is because of Casey's simplistic, stand around the 3 line, pass around (which also explains your other stat on passing) until you can jack up a 3 pointer that THE PLAYERS ARE DWELLING ON the entire possession.

So imo, your numbers are telling you something opposite from what I am actually seeing on the court. 3 pointers should come out of a rhythm, from a balanced offense that most of the time should be centered around interior scoring, THEN you kick outside for 3 pointers that come in a quick flow and in the rhythm of a complete offense.

So your numbers, imo, do nothing to support Casey. We sure do pass a lot, but we pass and pass and pass, LOOKING FOR 3 POINTERS and pretty much only 3 pointers. I said before Ii was watching the Bulls and 76ers earlier this year and the difference in these offenses and ours was gob smacking. I saw DOUBLE SCREENS, guys cutting along the baseline for gasp, easy dunks and such. The offenses looked to interior scoring like 85 percent of the time, they took 3 pointers too, plenty of them, but their 3 pointers were kick outs and came in quick flow from inside to out. When's the last time you saw us do a double screen? In was amazing. Just watch a good team, watch the players without the ball, look at the movement, looks at the cuts and the screens.

Casey is the PERFECT representation of the phrase, LIVE BY THE THREE, DIE BY THE THREE.

[whitehops]

Casey is the PERFECT representation of the phrase, LIVE BY THE THREE, DIE BY THE THREE.

but it's the players that ultimately decide whether we live or die by the three, isn't it?

[Pistonrings]

Casey is the PERFECT representation of the phrase, LIVE BY THE THREE, DIE BY THE THREE.

but it's the players that ultimately decide whether we live or die by the three, isn't it?

No, in the case, our coach isn't putting our players in a good situation, TO SHOOT BETTER THAN BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE in 3 pointers. We sometimes see a defender stand and just dare a guy to hit the 3, and many times the guy will clank it. It's not enough to just have an open 3, because our shooters are spending the entire possession OBSESSING, DWELLING on taking a 3.

When Casey was at Toronto, they were low in the league for fastbreak offense. When he left, all of a sudden Toronto sprouted up near the top in running.

Then, when he came here, guess what happened, WE THEN went near the bottom in running. To confirm this, look on YouTube for the Pistons podcast by Ku Kahlil. It was a show last month and he goes into the stats.

Now WHY would Casey's offense be so low ranked in fast-breaking? The one big reason I can think of is because YOU DON'T GET A LOT OF THREE POINTERS when you run.

Casey literally told us that his main objective is 3 pointers when he was hired. The problem is that he is so obsessed with 3 pointers that he has all but abandoned any serious attempt at interior play. You cannot become one dimensional and desire nothing but 3 pointers, or what happens, is LIVE BY THE THREE, DIE BY THE THREE.

For instance, remember the game at Toronto, where Killian hit that huge 3 late in the game?. Grant actually was inside, shot and missed, and grabbed his own rebound, he saw Killian and quickly zipped h a pass, no time for Killian to DWELL on the shot, he had to take it quickly, without thinking, it was in the flow of the play and came from a serious interior attempt to score inside, then was kicked out. It WASN'T a hugely open 3, a guy was closing on Killian and he had to just catch and in one motion fire the 3, and BOOM, he knocked it down. That's a different thing than all the players standing at the 3 line and spending the entire possession dwelling on taking a 3 pointer.

I wish there was another couple stats. We would lead the league in Intentional focus on 3 pointers to the exclusion of all else, by far. We would lead in number of PHONY attempts at trying to sell an intention of interior scoring. We would lead the league in time spent dwelling on taking 3 pointers.

3 pointers should be a REACTION to, and in the flow of a full offense.

So no, Casey is literally CAUSING this abysmal 3 shooting percentage.

[Sort]

From my perspective I don't know anymore if you can legitimately credit the offense for generating open looks. Opponents go under picks and sag off the shooters because Pistons are so historically bad. You saw Miami play a zone that just mauled the Pistons. Most teams bust up a zone with open threes and mid range jumpers with ease. Furthermore, most of the passes the Pistons do make never go inside the three point line or at the most a few steps. Pistons best penetrator - Saben Lee - doesn't even play much.

Pistons don't look like a basketball team. I don't think Casey right this moment is on the hot seat, but if things continue this putridly, he should be and probably will be.

[whitehops]

From my perspective I don't know anymore if you can legitimately credit the offense for generating open looks.

i agree that teams don't respect our talent so they're willing to give up open looks, but for that same reason i don't think you can blame casey for the offense not being good.

[zeebneeb]

I've got another question;

What other team in the league would Honestly hire Casey if he were to get fired in the middle of this season?

Which team would snap him up? I can't think of one, and at the start of next season, after this horror show, no way in hell does he have a coaching job.

I honestly don't think people realize just how bad this teams offense is, because of last year, and this years team. It's honestly unbelievable.

[mattao313]

I've got another question;

What other team in the league would Honestly hire Casey if he were to get fired in the middle of this season?

Which team would snap him up? I can't think of one, and at the start of next season, after this horror show, no way in hell does he have a coaching job.

I honestly don't think people realize just how bad this teams offense is, because of last year, and this years team. It's honestly unbelievable.

The Kings? Probably be a lot of interest being a assistant

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[Liqourish]

Do they need to fire Casey? No. We are rebuilding for the future and having a bad coach guarantees us a top pick.

Should they fire Casey? Yes. I don't see development of our young players. I don't see an offensive system in place. I don't see growth and something to build on. Just as important as having talent, is having a system and a fit, a culture. Casey brings none of that to this team.

[Pharaoh]

https://youtu.be/gRbCjovsCoA



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[Snakebites]

What evidence do we have that the young players are being developed?

I'm not saying we know that they aren't being developed (I've acknowledged in previous posts that I have no idea how to evaluate this), but how do we know they're being developed without improved play to observe?

Doesn't being in a bad offensive system hamper development?

It doesn't matter whether your goal is winning this year or not- you need the right coach in place. If your goal is to win, then it becomes (relatively) simple: is your team underperforming relative its talent level? Sure, there are other criteria like chemistry and other things to look at, but at the end of the day it'll tend to boil down to that.

If your goal isn't to win immediately, then there aren't obvious conventional metrics to measure that, at least not for someone who's only watching the games.

More or less a roundabout way of saying I don't really have any idea, but I don't think it's a given that firing him isn't to be considered just because we aren't "trying" to win.

[Pharaoh]

The issue with our offense as my clip above should show is that we have limited off ball movement which allows their D to dictate what we do.

Yes, a screen and read offense might seem complicated for a extremely young team but that clip shows basic principles that GS run regardless.

Yes they have Dray and Steph out there to call the shots but for the most part they have obvious rules built within their system and promotes off ball movement and their lesser players understand them and execute them always.

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