Jason "White Chocolate" Williams: "I'm not even sure [Kobe] is on the all-time top 5 Greatest Lakers"

[CIN-C-STAR]

People always sleep on the OG NBA superstar... George Mikan.
I know it's ancient history but he was as dominant as just about anyone in league history.

[picc]

Lebron a greater Laker than Kobe? Is this just trolling?

[celticfan42487]

He's not

[Jadoogar]

I mean in terms of playing career with the Lakers? I feel like Magic, Jerry West, maybe Kareem, would be the only ones who have a case over Kobe, unless I am forgetting someone.

Wilt and Lebron.

Lebron isn't even close to Kobe's tenure with the lakers (overall obviously he's much better player)

[Mickey8]

I am not even Kobe fan, but he's top 3 Laker of all time for sure.

[Cubbies2120]

Lay off the drugs, Jason.

This is my All-Time Top 10... so I'm going to vote "cringe"... and I'd vote "super cringe" if that was an option.

1) Jordan
2) Wilt or Lebron
3) Lebron or Wilt
4) Larry
5) Kobe
6) Magic
7) Hakeem or Kareem
8) Kareem or Hakeem
9) Shaq
10) Duncan or Russell

Thank god this isn't the widely accepted ranking

[hoosierdaddy34]

Seems like a lot of salt based on Kobe constantly kicking his and the Queens ass.

[DaddyCool19]

If its only Lakers career wise they make no sense. In that ranking he should be at worst 3rd.

[Kilroy]

whats the argument for Jerry West over Kobe? I don't really see one that makes sense to me

Greater overall impact to the organization... The Lakers were kind of built on Wests back in the post Mikan era...
He deserves a spot near the top of the all time great Guards also...

The only player that had even remotely similar impact to the org than West, was Magic... And West was responsible for the Lakers getting Magic and Kobe...

[Ducklett]

I'm just sad thinking about a franchise actually able to debate which of their all-time greats make the top 5. Dallas has Dirk and then uh well uh I guess pre and post prime Kidd, pre-MVP Nash, Aguirre, and Luka. Maybe Ro, Harp, Filthy or JET squeezes in

This is definitely a 1st world NBA problem. It's like when the Rockets start listing all the centers that have played for them: Moses and Dream and Sampson and Yao and Howard and Deke and I'm sure I'm missing a Hofer or two.

At least the Magic have:
Shaq
Penny
Dwight
T-Mac
Vince

[Kobe187]

White Chocolate and the Black Mamba have history. Williams wouldn’t even put Kobe in his top 100, Kobe probably stole his girl.

[anatomicbomb]

People always sleep on the OG NBA superstar... George Mikan.
I know it's ancient history but he was as dominant as just about anyone in league history.

Mikan is a great point! The Gentle Giant.

Also don't see Elgin Baylor coming up in the discussion

[hoosierdaddy34]

Greatness can have a combination of measures... Greatest individual performer, greatest impact to the franchise, greatest total career with the franchise... I think you get into the weeds comparing Kareem and Magic at the top for instance and a lot of the nuance is meaningless... I go with a tier system for Goat discussions.

Kareem and Magic Tier 1
Kobe Baylor West and Wilt tier 2
Shaq LeBron Mikan Worthy Tier 3
Cooper Goodrich Tier 4

What are we doing here? How are you putting Shaq and LeBron on the same level? Their impacts on this franchise aren’t close.

Tier 1: Kobe, Magic, Kareem, West (counting executive time)
Tier 2: Shaq
Tier 3: Baylor, Worthy, Mikan, Pau
Tier 4: Wilt, LeBron

[Egg Nog]

It depends.

If you're talking about "legacy" and specifically emphasizing one player's relationship over time with a team and its fans...you can't leave Kobe off the top 5.

Through the lens of peak on-court impact while wearing a Laker uniform (giving no weight to players who spent more time with the franchise), I would probably go Magic, Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, LeBron, Kobe, West, Mikan, Baylor, Worthy, McAdoo, etc...they don't have to be in that exact order but I have no problem if someone has Kobe #6 or lower on that list.

Lots of people will assume the first interpretation when reflecting on Jason Williams' comment and get very angry.

[canada_dry]

He meant as far as guys that have worn the Jersey.

In that case:
Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Shaq

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Kobe187]

Lay off the drugs, Jason.

This is my All-Time Top 10... so I'm going to vote "cringe"... and I'd vote "super cringe" if that was an option.

1) Jordan
2) Wilt or Lebron
3) Lebron or Wilt
4) Larry
5) Kobe
6) Magic
7) Hakeem or Kareem
8) Kareem or Hakeem
9) Shaq
10) Duncan or Russell

1. Jordan
2. LeBron
3. KAJ
4. Wilt
5. Russell
6. Magic
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Bird
10. Shaq

(11. Hakeem)
(12. Robertson)

[Eagle4]

Probably meant "best" and in that case he's right.

[KembaWalker]

whats the argument for Jerry West over Kobe? I don't really see one that makes sense to me

Greater overall impact to the organization... The Lakers were kind of built on Wests back in the post Mikan era...
He deserves a spot near the top of the all time great Guards also...

The only player that had even remotely similar impact to the org than West, was Magic... And West was responsible for the Lakers getting Magic and Kobe...

West had stacked teams even to a greater degree than Kobe (by far imo)..and less success for it

[jokeboy86]

Well I got Kobe after Magic and Kareem to start off with. I think he's in that West/Baylor tier. And to be clear the only reason I got West/Baylor/Kobe over Shaq is cause Shaq's Laker career was shorter than there's but Shaq was the focal point/best player for 3 title winning teams something that those other 3 don't have so I wouldn't get too upset if someone wanted to argue Shaq over them. But at absolute worst Kobe should be no lower than 6th as the best Lakers of all time. There's no reason at all for anybody to have Wilt/Lebron over Kobe in Laker rankings. None

[Kilroy]

Greatness can have a combination of measures... Greatest individual performer, greatest impact to the franchise, greatest total career with the franchise... I think you get into the weeds comparing Kareem and Magic at the top for instance and a lot of the nuance is meaningless... I go with a tier system for Goat discussions.

Kareem and Magic Tier 1
Kobe Baylor West and Wilt tier 2
Shaq LeBron Mikan Worthy Tier 3
Cooper Goodrich Tier 4

What are we doing here? How are you putting Shaq and LeBron on the same level? Their impacts on this franchise aren’t close.

Tier 1: Kobe, Magic, Kareem, West (counting executive time)
Tier 2: Shaq
Tier 3: Baylor, Worthy, Mikan, Pau
Tier 4: Wilt, LeBron

I think you're missing the point... What I said was "greatness" can be measured in a multitude of different ways... That my tier system tried to take all of those factors into account and that it's next to impossible to distinguish between some of the guys all things considered...

If your list is pure team impact, there's no justification at all for Pau and Shaq to be that high and Wilt and LeBron to be that low. Nor is there any justification from an individual greatness standpoint either... Shaq was the most dominant force the NBA has seen since Wilt... For about 3 seasons... Then he got lazy and left... And helped our rivals to multiple championships...