RS 23/24 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Nov 3)

[ozwizard8]

There are many really bad takes on the internet but the worst one for today is that Cam Thomas can replace Kyrie Irving’s production.

Cam Thomas is scoring a lot right now. And he had some stretches last season where he scored in bunches. But he is a career 45% and 30% shooter compared to Kyrie who puts up nearly a 40-50-90 every season. Plus Kyrie creates for others and Thomas does not.

Cam Thomas is significantly closer to THJ then he is to Kyrie Irving.

Also Kyrie doesn’t guard LaVine or Derozen. He guards Coby White.

I really wish that you could learn to read.
'Derozan switching on Luka is fine. But I dont want to watch Derozan or Banes switching on Kyrie.'

Derozan switched on Halliburton against Indiana all of the 4th quarter and Bulls scored very easy points. Same abusement would occur on Kyrie if he played.

Read on Twitter

No one said Cam Thomas has a career that is as good as Kyrie. We'll see how his career develops. Cam Thomas is getting paid $2m whereas Kyrie getting $40m per year.
As of now, Nets not missing Kyrie's absence because Cam Thomas gave them the scoring that Kyrie was supposed to provide. Kyrie is usually injured, or mentally unavailable to play. So Nets are fine without him.
We watch Kyrie against Nets. Him making an open 3 in the 4th qt is replaced with Hardy making an open 3pt shot in Bulls game. Mavs really did not needed Kyrie last night. It would be nice to have a max player like Kawhi or PG along Luka for yesterdays game rather than Kyrie giving up tons of points and Mavs become too small.

I really wish you would learn about basketball. Yeah Dallas has to protect the switch but if it were that easy to “just target Kyrie” teams would permanently do it. And they do it some to be sure as he is a weak defender but he is not the complete liability to make him out to be. Dallas is always a better team when Kyrie plays. They are never better off without him. I shouldn’t have to say that but with you, you never know what’s going on.

People like you always flip the **** out over the smallest sample sizes. It’s been 4 games. He’s Kyrie Irving. He’s a 27-5-5 and constantly flirts with 40-50-90.

Sure while they’re rebuilding the nets like Cam Thomas because he has a chance to develop into something special. With out anything locked up long term. But for right now he’s a low efficiency chucker who started the season hot. It’s not like we’ve never seen this before he had a hot streak for 40+ point games last season too, and still averaged 10ppg. I think we will see improvement there but let’s not be stupid, any team who wants to win in the playoffs would rather give the ball to Kyrie for 40m then to cam Thomas for 2m. And it’s really not close. Good scores are a dime a dozen. Great scorers are a different breed.

You with all of your BS to just be a Kyrie apologist.

- Every team Kyrie went to in the last 6 years became worse.
- Mavs dropped to 11th from 4th seed.

So Kyrie is not always a positive. As a MAX contract player, having him on instead of being injured is a plus for average game. However this does not apply to all games. It should be a plus for the Denver game but we do not know.

Kyrie being a defensive liability is an issue. Indiana tried to avoid Derozan switching on Halliburton too. It just opened other opportunities. Kyrie's marginal offensive improvement over Luka does not worth it for his defensive liabilities for some games. Grizzlies, Bulls, they choked in the 4th against a good defense. Mavs team had height and size to bother them and rebound. With Kyrie we would watch Derozan, Banes cooking.

[BeiBeau]

I really wish that you could learn to read.
'Derozan switching on Luka is fine. But I dont want to watch Derozan or Banes switching on Kyrie.'

Derozan switched on Halliburton against Indiana all of the 4th quarter and Bulls scored very easy points. Same abusement would occur on Kyrie if he played.

Read on Twitter

No one said Cam Thomas has a career that is as good as Kyrie. We'll see how his career develops. Cam Thomas is getting paid $2m whereas Kyrie getting $40m per year.
As of now, Nets not missing Kyrie's absence because Cam Thomas gave them the scoring that Kyrie was supposed to provide. Kyrie is usually injured, or mentally unavailable to play. So Nets are fine without him.
We watch Kyrie against Nets. Him making an open 3 in the 4th qt is replaced with Hardy making an open 3pt shot in Bulls game. Mavs really did not needed Kyrie last night. It would be nice to have a max player like Kawhi or PG along Luka for yesterdays game rather than Kyrie giving up tons of points and Mavs become too small.

I really wish you would learn about basketball. Yeah Dallas has to protect the switch but if it were that easy to “just target Kyrie” teams would permanently do it. And they do it some to be sure as he is a weak defender but he is not the complete liability to make him out to be. Dallas is always a better team when Kyrie plays. They are never better off without him. I shouldn’t have to say that but with you, you never know what’s going on.

People like you always flip the **** out over the smallest sample sizes. It’s been 4 games. He’s Kyrie Irving. He’s a 27-5-5 and constantly flirts with 40-50-90.

Sure while they’re rebuilding the nets like Cam Thomas because he has a chance to develop into something special. With out anything locked up long term. But for right now he’s a low efficiency chucker who started the season hot. It’s not like we’ve never seen this before he had a hot streak for 40+ point games last season too, and still averaged 10ppg. I think we will see improvement there but let’s not be stupid, any team who wants to win in the playoffs would rather give the ball to Kyrie for 40m then to cam Thomas for 2m. And it’s really not close. Good scores are a dime a dozen. Great scorers are a different breed.

You with all of your BS to just be a Kyrie apologist.

- Every team Kyrie went to in the last 6 years became worse.
- Mavs dropped to 11th from 4th seed.

So Kyrie is not always a positive. As a MAX contract player, having him on instead of being injured is a plus for average game. However this does not apply to all games. It should be a plus for the Denver game but we do not know.

Kyrie being a defensive liability is an issue. Indiana tried to avoid Derozan switching on Halliburton too. It just opened other opportunities. Kyrie's marginal offensive improvement over Luka does not worth it for his defensive liabilities for some games. Grizzlies, Bulls, they choked in the 4th against a good defense. Mavs team had height and size to bother them and rebound. With Kyrie we would watch Derozan, Banes cooking.

I don’t understand why you’re blaming Kyrie for Tyrese Halliburton having a bad defensive game. If the goal for Chicago was to attack a smaller guard to close the game then why didn’t Derozen attack Hardy? Hardy is an inch taller than Kyrie and 4 pounds heavier. Plus he’s not exactly a significantly better defender then Kyrie. Is it because you can’t just look at a scenario in 1 game and then make a 1 to 1 comparison and blame a player not even involved in that Bulls Pacer game?

Dallas could’ve really used Kyrie against the Bulls. For a number of reasons that I shouldn’t even need to point out.
1. Even a Kyrie who had 2 bad shooting games is much better than Jaden Hardy at just about everything.
2. Teams respect Kyrie Irving, you can double Luka like you did because Kyrie running a 4 on 3 is an instant lose.
3. Kyrie is still the teams 2nd best facilitator. They need him to keep the offense going when Luka rest. Luka played 40 minutes because Kyrie was out. That is not sustainable.

Additionally, The Celtics and Nets were better teams after getting Kyrie. They quite literally by definition improved in the standings. Yeah Dallas sank in the standing last year but that’s because the defense was terrible. They have gotten the defensive pieces back and are now looking good.

[dirkforpres]

The first real measuring stick game. If Kyrie plays like the all-star he is, this could be a really down to the wire game. Grant always matched up well against Giannis and Jokic in his Boston years.

[ozwizard8]

I read this quote on reddit and its pretty impressive. I always liked Tyson Chandler with Mavs and later with Knicks where he got the DPOY award. I must say the mindset of Chandler is spot-on. Altough Lively had foul trouble at times, him looking better than expected as a rookie may be linked to mentorship offered by Mavs. Congrats to FO.

“The Joker has got everything you need,” Chandler said. “With him you got to be locked in and feel the game. What I mean by that is understand Denver’s offense, cutters, go-to moves, picks-and-rolls with Jamal Murray. The special thing about Joker is he’s not the norm. He will not force his will. He is going to make the right basketball play like LeBron James.

“But these are guys Dereck has to think about when he’s training, picture playing the greats and the guys at the top. All these are great experiences for him. Even in preseason playing Karl-Anthony Towns and Rudy Gobert. They were great experiences. It’s logging information. You know what to expect next time.”

[KIRAG]

Fun fact: That's how he got the Batman monicker when he stiled the Joker that one game. Will Batman show up again later...?

The first real measuring stick game. If Kyrie plays like the all-star he is, this could be a really down to the wire game. Grant always matched up well against Giannis and Jokic in his Boston years.

[BeiBeau]

Saw Shams say Kyrie was in for tonight.

I think the preseason injury, the being short on his shots, and the injury now are all related so I hope he’s good to go tonight.

[ozwizard8]

Additionally, The Celtics and Nets were better teams after getting Kyrie. They quite literally by definition improved in the standings. Yeah Dallas sank in the standing last year but that’s because the defense was terrible. They have gotten the defensive pieces back and are now looking good.

As always, you talk BS to be Kyrie apologist.
Kyrie is a huge defensive liability. He also let rebounds go the other way. Against teams like Bulls, Grizzlies with lackluster offense, its nice to not have Kyrie-liability.

Celtics and Nets were super teams that failed miserably with Kyrie. Many playoff failures, let downs by Kyrie.
Lets look at the standings:
Celtics before Kyrie: 2016-17 Celtics 53-29
next two seasons: 49-33 and 55-27
Although the Celtics team got better due to Tatum, and Brown's development, they averaged 53 wins.

Nets before Kyrie: 2018-19 Nets 42-40
next three seasons:
2019-20 Nets 35-37, 2020-21 Nets 48-24, 2021-22 Nets 44-38
On average Nets won 42 wins in three seasons. Considering covid seasons have less games, we can say Nets had slightly better record. But then again that team got Kevin Durant and J.Harden as additions. How one can claim Kyrie brought wins? I mean the guy did not even play much. Kyrie averaged 30 games or sth per season.
Kyrie's last 6 years were all misery for the teams he went to. All fan bases hate him. And they started to hate him before kicking his ass out. Stop debating these facts.

My argument was Kyrie is needed for Nuggets game as Mavs will not be able to stop them defensively anyway. I think Mavs coaching also thought that and they let him rest against Bulls, Grizzlies. Mavs got better defense and rebounding thanks to not having Kyrie.

[Apz]

Will be a tough game. The good thing is that if we lose its not the end of the world, they are the best team in the league after all. And if we win its amazing

[BeiBeau]

Additionally, The Celtics and Nets were better teams after getting Kyrie. They quite literally by definition improved in the standings. Yeah Dallas sank in the standing last year but that’s because the defense was terrible. They have gotten the defensive pieces back and are now looking good.

As always, you talk BS to be Kyrie apologist.
Kyrie is a huge defensive liability. He also let rebounds go the other way. Against teams like Bulls, Grizzlies with lackluster offense, its nice to not have Kyrie-liability.

Celtics and Nets were super teams that failed miserably with Kyrie. Many playoff failures, let downs by Kyrie.
Lets look at the standings:
Celtics before Kyrie: 2016-17 Celtics 53-29
next two seasons: 49-33 and 55-27
Although the Celtics team got better due to Tatum, and Brown's development, they averaged 53 wins.

Nets before Kyrie: 2018-19 Nets 42-40
next three seasons:
2019-20 Nets 35-37, 2020-21 Nets 48-24, 2021-22 Nets 44-38
On average Nets won 42 wins in three seasons. Considering covid seasons have less games, we can say Nets had slightly better record. But then again that team got Kevin Durant and J.Harden as additions. How one can claim Kyrie brought wins? I mean the guy did not even play much. Kyrie averaged 30 games or sth per season.
Kyrie's last 6 years were all misery for the teams he went to. All fan bases hate him. And they started to hate him before kicking his ass out. Stop debating these facts.

My argument was Kyrie is needed for Nuggets game as Mavs will not be able to stop them defensively anyway. I think Mavs coaching also thought that and they let him rest against Bulls, Grizzlies. Mavs got better defense and rebounding thanks to not having Kyrie.

Is it easy to argue when you just ignore everything else that I comment because you can’t argue against it? If you’re gonna ignore stuff then at least admit you were wrong.

All of those teams were better with Kyrie then without. When he played they were good to great and that nets team would’ve won the championship. I’m not an apologist for pointing out that anyone saying that Dallas is better off if Kyrie doesn’t play just simply does not understand basketball. It doesn’t matter what game you talking about or what clips you pull up from a game that doesn’t even involve the Mavs.

What you simply lack the ability to understand is that Luka struggled in the game against the bulls because Kyrie was not there. If Kyrie was healthy and would’ve played then they would not have been able to double Luka all game, Luka would’ve had to play less minutes, and Dallas would’ve been a much better team when Luka was not on the court.

[Dirk]

Kyrie back for the big tournament.

[HMFFL]

What a battle this will be.
Let's get the big underdog win.


Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[tleikheen]

Jokic has50 #s on Lively ,Gordon has 3"s and can sky where GWms can only dream about, and MPJ has 4"s on DJJ....Denver is going to own the boards on the Mavs .Denver is a bad matchup for the Mavs.

[BeiBeau]

Jokic has50 #s on Lively ,Gordon has 3"s and can sky where GWms can only dream about, and MPJ has 4"s on DJJ....Denver is going to own the boards on the Mavs .Denver is a bad matchup for the Mavs.

Fortunately for us that’s not really how basketball works. Someone could easily say Lively has 2 inches of height, 5 inches of wingspan, and 23 inches of vertical on Jokic. Grant has 30 pounds on MPJ, and Luka is the best rebounding point guard in the NBA and that’s why we will own the boards. But again you cant do that. That’s just not how the game works.

Through 4 games so far Dallas is 13th in rebounding and Denver is 24th. But again, it’s just not how the game works. Denver is certainly capable of dominating the boards but so is Dallas. Rebounding is a measure of effort generally speaking.

[kacey ring]

Luka is forcing some passes. Nuggets' defense is too good for that ish.

[Mavrelous]

Well, below average offense and they're getting what they want, need to rethink the strategy...

[Michaellam1987]

Terrible start. Poor offense execution. Bad defense. Lazy defense.

[BeiBeau]

Denver red hot. Dallas with a ton of turnovers. **** quarter.

[BliscoSantos]

So far not a good start... they're late on D and the O is sloppy...lot of Lost balls that lead to easy baskets...Powell can't Play this game...Jokić is too big...Powell is the same size as MPJ ,but MPJ has a bigger wingspan

[Archx]

Why is THJ trying to dribble and create with Kyrie in the game? That never goes well...And Powell is simply outmatched on both ends.

[dirkules_41]

Besides the slow start to the game - anyone else find this court unwatchable? Really hard to see where the ball is at times and far too in your face.