RealGM

2019 Kawhi

Sabonis and Huerter were the real disappointments in the playoffs so replacing/upgrading them.

Statlanta wrote:Sabonis and Huerter were the real disappointments in the playoffs so replacing/upgrading them.

Jokic and Embiid aren't available

NO-KG-AI wrote:They need an MVP level player, hate to say it. So hard to break through without one. Hard enough with one.

What

They need a really strong wing defender that can add a bit of rim protection.

The offense is fine, but Domas isn't going to be anchoring any kind of top defense. OG + Murray would bring the hurt.

RIPskaterdude wrote:

NO-KG-AI wrote:They need an MVP level player, hate to say it. So hard to break through without one. Hard enough with one.

What

It’s a pretty clear statement.

I for one think they would need more than OG, he is not pushing Kings over the top. I just do not see Kings being over the top, but maybe I am wrong.

can Sabonis really be that guy on a championship team? He's always been really underwhelming in the playoffs, even back to his Indy days.

Fox is good enough as a starting PG, not sure if he's good enough as a #1 option but he's been excellent to start the year off.

Sabonis got completely destroyed on the boards by Kevon Looney, Sabonis could be a teams starting center but the Kings need a true defensive paint stopper that can stretch the floor on offensive side while grabbing boards. Basically they need Rodman with a 3 point shot which is ridiculously impossible to find.

But there's a reason Myles Turner and Sabonis worked together in Indiana, because Turner obviously helped hide the weaknesses Sabonis had defensively.

So if Sacramento could somehow find another Myles Turner to fit into their team I think they'd elevate their roster immediately. A starting line-up of Fox - Monk - Keegan - Sabonis - Turner would be as complete a line-up as the Kings ever needed.

They are missing something but I don’t know what exactly. Hmm maybe they just need more time and development and playoff experience for guys like Keegan. Just good old be patient for natural organic growth. I don’t think they need a heavy usage 3rd star to disrupt the offensive hierarchy they currently have.

NO-KG-AI wrote:They need an MVP level player, hate to say it. So hard to break through without one. Hard enough with one.

This. Unless you're the 2004 Pistons, you don't win without a top 10 player. Fox is certainly a top 20 player, but he's not top 10, so either he makes a huge leap, they get someone else, or they're like the Dame Blazer teams with a conference finalist once every half dozen or so playoff runs kind of ceiling. No shame in that, it's just not going to get them "over the top."

Favorable matchups and a Fox/Sabonis to have great 6 weeks at the right time.

I don't think they realistically can. They need Murray to play better, which he likely will, but I think the Fox/Sabonis core is capped as a 2nd round, maybe WCF team if things really break right. Nothing wrong with that, people don't give enough respect to teams that are just good and the Kings franchise just needed some good teams. But it is what it is

deltarich87 wrote:Anunoby to replace Barnes and Caruso for backup PG would do wonders for them tbh. That + Keegan continuing to fine tune his game and becoming a 18-20 PPG type guy for them. He's already taken a leap on the defensive end this season

His 3 ball isn't falling right now. If he can get north of 40% like he was last year, on the same attempts that he's taking this year, then he's be averaging 17.5 ppg. Thats pretty good.

I don't really see a major move that they should make that is really going to put them over the top. The big salary pieces they have to move (Huerter and Barnes) are key parts of their team, so a bunch of the scenarios where both of those guys would be going out, could mess with their locker room, chemistry and what they are trying to do.

I think the biggest thing for them is getting Keegan Murray to step up. He's shooting poorly right now, but he's a good shooter, and he's not gonna keep shooting at 28% from 3 all year. He needs to develop into their 3rd best player. From what I've watched, and statistically both him and Sabonis have gotten a lot better on the defensive side. Having Sabonis as your last line of defense is always going to be a struggle, but if they can just improve to average (currently 14th in defensive rating, they were 24th last year) while continuing to be one of the best offensive teams in the league (their o rating doesn't quite reflect what they actually are because Fox missed some games), then I don't really see any major changes that should be made. This is a team that will be Top 4 in the West again if they stay healthy. Given the franchises history, they should be really happy with that. No major shakeups are needed in my opinion. Just a little more experience, develop more chemistry defensively, and stay healthy.

I guess if I had to throw out one fake trade that seems realistic it would be Harrison Barnes, Trey Lyles, and a 2026 Lottery Protected 1st for Jerian Grant.

Sabonis/McGee
Grant/Vezenkov
Murray/Duarte
Huerter/Monk/Duarte
Fox/Mitchell

Maybe they would even add another 1st and get Kris Murray (Keegans twin brother) from the Blazers too!

They would need to change their current risk aversion. And Keegan is on the table.

To Jazz: Keegan + Monk

To Raptors: Barnes + THT (or Sexton or ?) + Kings Picks

To Kings: OG + Markkanen + Raps Filler (Thad?)

Kings acquire upgrades but more risk.

Sabonis
Markkanen
OG
Huerter
Fox

Wolveswin wrote:They would need to change their current risk aversion. And Keegan is on the table.

To Jazz: Keegan + Monk

To Raptors: Barnes + THT (or Sexton or ?) + Kings Picks

To Kings: OG + Markkanen + Raps Filler (Thad?)

Kings acquire upgrades but more risk.

Sabonis
Markkanen
OG
Huerter
Fox

I don't think the Jazz are doing that deal, but that would be interesting.

Their core is locked in, so they have time to figure it out. I keep having to remind myself of that.

Huerter was indeed very bad in the playoffs last year. I'm not ready to assume that that's a permanent thing, and therefore am not as urgently looking to upgrade his spot. He's such a big part of the offense.

Here's the path, IMO:

1) Upgrade Barnes. You can see age hitting him already, which is ultimately okay because he's on a good deal, but that's the spot that needs to be upgraded. I'm ultimately fine with re-signing him in terms of having him hold down the fort, but that's the key. The tempting move is adding a truckload of picks to Barnes for Anunoby (open to other filler as well. I'd just like to try to hold onto most of the core). If we were to do this (and assuming he's extended/re-signed), in conjunction with Fox being extremely underrated defensively (I think he's on the path to be an all-defense guy), and maybe adding one more real defensive role player off the bench (Caruso would be the most ideal, but we live in an imperfect world), I think that's actually enough to cover for Sabonis.

I know it's a popular thing to say every team would want an Anunoby. The thing that makes him an even better fit with the Kings is that Sabonis allows him to still get closer to his ideal shot attempts without being overtaxed as a ballhandler. Those two really could benefit from each other.

2) Sabonis playing better in the playoffs. Kings and Sabonis are together for the long haul for many reasons. There's no way around the fact that he needs to be better. The degree to which that's true gets a little overblown. He put up 16/11/5 on weakened efficiency (MUCH better than previous playoff performances) when the entire defense was very effectively geared at blowing up his main actions. Also worth noting this was with a fractured hand.

Again, not saying he doesn't need to play significantly better for the Kings to reach the next level. He does. Just saying he was better than people might remember, and there's some relevant context. I'm maintaining hope that it can and will improve because it already has.

3) Fox continues on current trajectory. I understand it's a high bar when we're talking about being a top 10 player, being the best player on a champion. I understand that Fox is a small market player, and that him being actually incredible is a relatively new idea, in the grand scheme of things. I think he's actually that good right now. Last playoffs were a relatively small sample of course, but I don't know what more he could have showed in that series, particularly before fracturing his finger.

I'm biased of course. But as an isolation, 'need a bucket' option that becomes highly relevant in the playoffs, I just think he's currently at the very tip top of the league right now. He's completely unstoppable as a closer.

But I don't know. Maybe I'm being a homer. I think if you want to see it more, see it deeper in the playoffs, that's fair. I just think if you look at the last season+ there's just a total lack of evidence to the contrary. To me, he's demonstrably been an elite first option, particularly in crunch time.

Wanting to see more is fair. Outright dismissal that he is that guy is, IMO, not, given what we've seen.

BoogieTime wrote:

dockingsched wrote:They need an alpha capable or projected to be able to carry a team to the title.

reminds me of the Derozan raptors. Good second round 50+ win team but never really a title contender and a major shake up away from making that leap.

Well who is significantly better than Sabonis and Fox in the West this year so far?

Jokic/Murray
Doncic/Kyrie
LeBron/AD
KD/Booker
Curry/Klay
Kawhi/George

are candidates. But some of those guys aren't actually better, or the distance between one of them and the Kings best player is the same as the Kings 2nd best player and the other guy on said team. Maybe even a couple/several (?) of those pairs are a bit better but the Kings probably have better surrounding players.

The west is fairly open

So, he's saying you need to have a top tier #1, and you're responding by talking about duos. Perfectly reasonable to argue that duos are more important that #1s for champion teams in general, but given that the Raptors were themselves a team with a very nice duo with Lowry/DeRozan, it's pretty understandable why the guy you're responding to is alpha-oriented given that the first duo you list are the defending champs and the alpha there was basically as alpha as you could possibly get (won title with no all-star teammates).

Doctor MJ wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:

dockingsched wrote:They need an alpha capable or projected to be able to carry a team to the title.

reminds me of the Derozan raptors. Good second round 50+ win team but never really a title contender and a major shake up away from making that leap.

Well who is significantly better than Sabonis and Fox in the West this year so far?

Jokic/Murray
Doncic/Kyrie
LeBron/AD
KD/Booker
Curry/Klay
Kawhi/George

are candidates. But some of those guys aren't actually better, or the distance between one of them and the Kings best player is the same as the Kings 2nd best player and the other guy on said team. Maybe even a couple/several (?) of those pairs are a bit better but the Kings probably have better surrounding players.

The west is fairly open

So, he's saying you need to have a top tier #1, and you're responding by talking about duos. Perfectly reasonable to argue that duos are more important that #1s for champion teams in general, but given that the Raptors were themselves a team with a very nice duo with Lowry/DeRozan, it's pretty understandable why the guy you're responding to is alpha-oriented given that the first duo you list are the defending champs and the alpha there was basically as alpha as you could possibly get (won title with no all-star teammates).

In a vacuum, you can argue to take all those duos over Sabonis/Fox..except probably steph/klay but even then you would still have steph.

With all the talk of Jokic's rim protection and overall defense, Sabonis has the same concerns but with less size around him and offensively he is quality, but not superstar level. I would rather have a guy like Chet for example because of the ability to contest shots at the rim and hit open jumpshots.

Fox is obviously a gem. I would roll with him as my PG any day of the week. The problem with the kings is that star point guards just dont usually carry teams to championships unless their name is steph curry.

ShootersShoot wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:
Well who is significantly better than Sabonis and Fox in the West this year so far?

Jokic/Murray
Doncic/Kyrie
LeBron/AD
KD/Booker
Curry/Play
Kawhi/George

are candidates. But some of those guys aren't actually better, or the distance between one of them and the Kings best player is the same as the Kings 2nd best player and the other guy on said team. Maybe even a couple/several (?) of those pairs are a bit better but the Kings probably have better surrounding players.

The west is fairly open

So, he's saying you need to have a top tier #1, and you're responding by talking about duos. Perfectly reasonable to argue that duos are more important that #1s for champion teams in general, but given that the Raptors were themselves a team with a very nice duo with Lowry/DeRozan, it's pretty understandable why the guy you're responding to is alpha-oriented given that the first duo you list are the defending champs and the alpha there was basically as alpha as you could possibly get (won title with no all-star teammates).

In a vacuum, you can argue to take all those duos over Sabonis/Fox..except probably steph/klay but even then you would still have steph.

With all the talk of Jokic's rim protection and overall defense, Sabonis has the same concerns but with less size around him and offensively he is quality, but not superstar level. I would rather have a guy like Chet for example because of the ability to contest shots at the rim and hit open jumpshots.

Fox is obviously a gem. I would roll with him as my PG any day of the week. The problem is that star point guards just dont usually carry teams to championships unless their name is steph curry.

Sabonis is star offensive level, and a good reason for the Kings number 1 offense last year and this year with Fox https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/12/13/23507222/domantas-sabonis-sacramento-kings. and was a top ten mvp candidate (I believe around 6-7th on nba.com)

The Kings second star is substantially better than Murray IMO, who I find overrated due to Nuggets performance.

The other 4 duos may be a 'bit' better, but the Kings have better surrounding players.

Basically, the counter argument are the Kings best players aren't far behind who is above them. Historically we can say you need a number 1 because that was the shape of the league. There are no LeBrons/Duncans/Kobes/Shaq in the league currently. If you can argue one of your players gets to 85% of the MVP on a given night, than you have a better 2nd star, who knows.