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JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

toooskies wrote:I just want to note that a) the Cavs' offense was missing 4 of its top 5 ballhandlers from the beginning of the year (with two of those being game-time decision scratches) and b) the defensive gameplan was probably focused around Brunson and it went out the window as soon as he got hurt. If we looked aimless out there at times, it's probably because we were, and for logical reasons.

Lol always an excuse for something, smh.

Rubio was never going to play on this team, why you always include him as a conversation point is wild to me. Plus idk if a lot of people here would put TJ over CPJ.

Missing Mitchell hurts but it's not like the Cavs were playing a fully healthy squad... Cavs with 3 of the core 4 should be able to steamroll any team who is missing their top 4 players. If not, it just leans even more in to the fact that this team construction is flawed.

Also, Jb should be able to adjust on the fly and for 5 seasons he has shown he is just incapable, hence the zero post season success under him, guy gets out coached by literally everyone.

Well, there was a reason I singled-out our defense and not our offense. There are reasons our offense might struggle, but we play our two bigs for defensive purposes and Okoro, Wade, and Strus were all there to help them out. If the second best defense in the league can't dominate a front court consisting of a guy we released so he could sign with the Clippers, a guy the Knicks received as salary filler, and the 58th pick in the draft ... it seems like we have a problem.

It's even worse a guy like Hart who the Cavs had at least 2 opportunities to acquire him always torches them. 19 rebounds and 10 assists is crazy from that dude.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:Lol always an excuse for something, smh.

Rubio was never going to play on this team, why you always include him as a conversation point is wild to me. Plus idk if a lot of people here would put TJ over CPJ.

Missing Mitchell hurts but it's not like the Cavs were playing a fully healthy squad... Cavs with 3 of the core 4 should be able to steamroll any team who is missing their top 4 players. If not, it just leans even more in to the fact that this team construction is flawed.

Also, Jb should be able to adjust on the fly and for 5 seasons he has shown he is just incapable, hence the zero post season success under him, guy gets out coached by literally everyone.

Well, there was a reason I singled-out our defense and not our offense. There are reasons our offense might struggle, but we play our two bigs for defensive purposes and Okoro, Wade, and Strus were all there to help them out. If the second best defense in the league can't dominate a front court consisting of a guy we released so he could sign with the Clippers, a guy the Knicks received as salary filler, and the 58th pick in the draft ... it seems like we have a problem.

It's even worse a guy like Hart who the Cavs had at least 2 opportunities to acquire him always torches them. 19 rebounds and 10 assists is crazy from that dude.

CPJ was a UDFA this year, Merrill was the 60th pick in the draft before Sims's and was a G-Leaguer last year, Strus and Wade were UDFAs the year after Hartenstein entered the league. Niang has been a fringe NBA player his whole career. Let's not pretend we have roster of guys who are where they are because of raw and obvious talent.

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Well, there was a reason I singled-out our defense and not our offense. There are reasons our offense might struggle, but we play our two bigs for defensive purposes and Okoro, Wade, and Strus were all there to help them out. If the second best defense in the league can't dominate a front court consisting of a guy we released so he could sign with the Clippers, a guy the Knicks received as salary filler, and the 58th pick in the draft ... it seems like we have a problem.

It's even worse a guy like Hart who the Cavs had at least 2 opportunities to acquire him always torches them. 19 rebounds and 10 assists is crazy from that dude.

CPJ was a UDFA this year, Merrill was the 60th pick in the draft before Sims's and was a G-Leaguer last year, Strus and Wade were UDFAs the year after Hartenstein entered the league. Niang has been a fringe NBA player his whole career. Let's not pretend we have roster of guys who are where they are because of raw and obvious talent.

I was just referring to our bigs, Allen and Mobley. They need to be more than just productive going up against teams with decimated front lines like the Knicks and Sixers, or what the heck are we doing?

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Well, there was a reason I singled-out our defense and not our offense. There are reasons our offense might struggle, but we play our two bigs for defensive purposes and Okoro, Wade, and Strus were all there to help them out. If the second best defense in the league can't dominate a front court consisting of a guy we released so he could sign with the Clippers, a guy the Knicks received as salary filler, and the 58th pick in the draft ... it seems like we have a problem.

It's even worse a guy like Hart who the Cavs had at least 2 opportunities to acquire him always torches them. 19 rebounds and 10 assists is crazy from that dude.

CPJ was a UDFA this year, Merrill was the 60th pick in the draft before Sims's and was a G-Leaguer last year, Strus and Wade were UDFAs the year after Hartenstein entered the league. Niang has been a fringe NBA player his whole career. Let's not pretend we have roster of guys who are where they are because of raw and obvious talent.

Toooskies these are the same guys that just went 18 of 20 to start the calendar year, what are we talking about? No one was worried about who was drafted where then.

With 2 guys maxed out, this is all that is left. If you don't like no depth, point directly to the Mitchell trade.

This is just another way to give Jb a pass for being an incompetent coach. He can't adjust in-game to beat a team down 4 starters?

JujitsuFlip wrote:

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:It's even worse a guy like Hart who the Cavs had at least 2 opportunities to acquire him always torches them. 19 rebounds and 10 assists is crazy from that dude.

CPJ was a UDFA this year, Merrill was the 60th pick in the draft before Sims's and was a G-Leaguer last year, Strus and Wade were UDFAs the year after Hartenstein entered the league. Niang has been a fringe NBA player his whole career. Let's not pretend we have roster of guys who are where they are because of raw and obvious talent.

Toooskies these are the same guys that just went 18 of 20 to start the calendar year, what are we talking about? No one was worried about who was drafted where then.

With 2 guys maxed out, this is all that is left. If you don't like no depth, point directly to the Mitchell trade.

This is just another way to give Jb a pass for being an incompetent coach. He can't adjust in-game to beat a team down 4 starters?

I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

toooskies wrote:CPJ was a UDFA this year, Merrill was the 60th pick in the draft before Sims's and was a G-Leaguer last year, Strus and Wade were UDFAs the year after Hartenstein entered the league. Niang has been a fringe NBA player his whole career. Let's not pretend we have roster of guys who are where they are because of raw and obvious talent.

Toooskies these are the same guys that just went 18 of 20 to start the calendar year, what are we talking about? No one was worried about who was drafted where then.

With 2 guys maxed out, this is all that is left. If you don't like no depth, point directly to the Mitchell trade.

This is just another way to give Jb a pass for being an incompetent coach. He can't adjust in-game to beat a team down 4 starters?

I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

There's nothing schematically he can do for either of those things? I think I would disagree.

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

toooskies wrote:CPJ was a UDFA this year, Merrill was the 60th pick in the draft before Sims's and was a G-Leaguer last year, Strus and Wade were UDFAs the year after Hartenstein entered the league. Niang has been a fringe NBA player his whole career. Let's not pretend we have roster of guys who are where they are because of raw and obvious talent.

Toooskies these are the same guys that just went 18 of 20 to start the calendar year, what are we talking about? No one was worried about who was drafted where then.

With 2 guys maxed out, this is all that is left. If you don't like no depth, point directly to the Mitchell trade.

This is just another way to give Jb a pass for being an incompetent coach. He can't adjust in-game to beat a team down 4 starters?

I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

One of the fundamental jobs of a head coach is to leverage his player's strengths, hide their weaknesses and exploit the opponent's weaknesses.

So, for instance, if you realize Garland is shying away from drawing contact ... maybe the answer is to get him off the ball? And how do you do that when Mitchell isn't available? Obviously Ricky isn't going to help us, he's busy contributing 5-2-1 to FC Barcelona these days. Maybe that kid who was helping us win games when DG was out should be on the floor with Garland?

I'm just not going to even bring up the likes of Damian Jones, Emoni Bates, Pete Nance, Shariffe Cooper, and Isaiah Mobley ... there's just no reason to expect any of them to be able to step in at a critical time and help when nothing has been done to prepare them for it.

Oh, wait, I brought them up.

Iwasawitness wrote:I don't think the Cavs are winning this game. And it's pathetic that I'm even saying that. This is easily our worst loss of the season if we don't win this. Even the Portland one doesn't compare.

Yes agreed.

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

toooskies wrote:CPJ was a UDFA this year, Merrill was the 60th pick in the draft before Sims's and was a G-Leaguer last year, Strus and Wade were UDFAs the year after Hartenstein entered the league. Niang has been a fringe NBA player his whole career. Let's not pretend we have roster of guys who are where they are because of raw and obvious talent.

Toooskies these are the same guys that just went 18 of 20 to start the calendar year, what are we talking about? No one was worried about who was drafted where then.

With 2 guys maxed out, this is all that is left. If you don't like no depth, point directly to the Mitchell trade.

This is just another way to give Jb a pass for being an incompetent coach. He can't adjust in-game to beat a team down 4 starters?

I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

You can 100% find ways to hide Garland/Merrill on D. Pre-switching, showing on screens with back-side help, early rotations, etc. I'll be honest tho, haven't watched the last two games and won't watch the Celts game bc the games are raising my stress levels too much so I'm on a break so kinda speaking outta my ass since IDK where our defense is going wrong rn.

2/14 not 2/19 btw

Wide open threes:
Niang 0/2
Wade 0/2
Strus 0/1

Open threes:
Niang 0/1
Wade 0/2
Strus 2/4

Tight threes
Niang 0/1
Strus 0/1

Expected three point % based on league-average wide open, open, and tight threes: 36%
Actual three point %: 14.2%

Points lost: 9 points

100% agree on this point. You can get guys open looks with other plays, but the guys theoretically should have made more shots. It is a volatile shot for a reason

JonFromVA wrote:

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:Toooskies these are the same guys that just went 18 of 20 to start the calendar year, what are we talking about? No one was worried about who was drafted where then.

With 2 guys maxed out, this is all that is left. If you don't like no depth, point directly to the Mitchell trade.

This is just another way to give Jb a pass for being an incompetent coach. He can't adjust in-game to beat a team down 4 starters?

I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

One of the fundamental jobs of a head coach is to leverage his player's strengths, hide their weaknesses and exploit the opponent's weaknesses.

So, for instance, if you realize Garland is shying away from drawing contact ... maybe the answer is to get him off the ball? And how do you do that when Mitchell isn't available? Obviously Ricky isn't going to help us, he's busy contributing 5-2-1 to FC Barcelona these days. Maybe that kid who was helping us win games when DG was out should be on the floor with Garland?

I'm just not going to even bring up the likes of Damian Jones, Emoni Bates, Pete Nance, Shariffe Cooper, and Isaiah Mobley ... there's just no reason to expect any of them to be able to step in at a critical time and help when nothing has been done to prepare them for it.

Oh, wait, I brought them up.

I suspect that Garland isn't trying to draw contact because he's not getting any calls even when he's playing straight up and getting hammered.

JBB might as well play the second and third string tonight against the Celtics so the fans get a good hard look at what playing CPJ, Merrill and the crew looks like against defenders like white and Jrue.

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

toooskies wrote:I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

One of the fundamental jobs of a head coach is to leverage his player's strengths, hide their weaknesses and exploit the opponent's weaknesses.

So, for instance, if you realize Garland is shying away from drawing contact ... maybe the answer is to get him off the ball? And how do you do that when Mitchell isn't available? Obviously Ricky isn't going to help us, he's busy contributing 5-2-1 to FC Barcelona these days. Maybe that kid who was helping us win games when DG was out should be on the floor with Garland?

I'm just not going to even bring up the likes of Damian Jones, Emoni Bates, Pete Nance, Shariffe Cooper, and Isaiah Mobley ... there's just no reason to expect any of them to be able to step in at a critical time and help when nothing has been done to prepare them for it.

Oh, wait, I brought them up.

I suspect that Garland isn't trying to draw contact because he's not getting any calls even when he's playing straight up and getting hammered.

JBB might as well play the second and third string tonight against the Celtics so the fans get a good hard look at what playing CPJ, Merrill and the crew looks like against defenders like white and Jrue.

This is Jb we're talking about, he's gonna play the starters near 40 minutes in a blowout loss. That is his modus operandi

ijspeelman wrote:

toooskies wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:Toooskies these are the same guys that just went 18 of 20 to start the calendar year, what are we talking about? No one was worried about who was drafted where then.

With 2 guys maxed out, this is all that is left. If you don't like no depth, point directly to the Mitchell trade.

This is just another way to give Jb a pass for being an incompetent coach. He can't adjust in-game to beat a team down 4 starters?

I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

You can 100% find ways to hide Garland/Merrill on D. Pre-switching, showing on screens with back-side help, early rotations, etc. I'll be honest tho, haven't watched the last two games and won't watch the Celts game bc the games are raising my stress levels too much so I'm on a break so kinda speaking outta my ass since IDK where our defense is going wrong rn.

2/14 not 2/19 btw

Wide open threes:
Niang 0/2
Wade 0/2
Strus 0/1

Open threes:
Niang 0/1
Wade 0/2
Strus 2/4

Tight threes
Niang 0/1
Strus 0/1

Expected three point % based on league-average wide open, open, and tight threes: 36%
Actual three point %: 14.2%

Points lost: 9 points

100% agree on this point. You can get guys open looks with other plays, but the guys theoretically should have made more shots. It is a volatile shot for a reason

2/14 from three, 2/19 overall. They were worse from two than three! (Garland has been bad inside the line the past few games as well.)

Now, you can argue the rest of the team's shooting somewhat made up for those three guys not having their stroke and it's unfair to pick on outliers, but Strus's struggles have been pretty consistent, so have Niang's, and Wade's struggles seem to come and go depending on whether he started the game or not.

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2024/03/josh-harts-celebration-with-donovan-mitchells-chain-sends-a-message-that-should-worry-cavs-fans-jimmy-watkins.html

What a write-up, wow. He did not mince words.

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

toooskies wrote:I'm simply not oversimplifying it to JB being an incompetent coach. JBB can't make Strus, Niang, and Wade shoot better then 2/19. He can't hide the fact that you can pick on Garland and Merrill on D.

One of the fundamental jobs of a head coach is to leverage his player's strengths, hide their weaknesses and exploit the opponent's weaknesses.

So, for instance, if you realize Garland is shying away from drawing contact ... maybe the answer is to get him off the ball? And how do you do that when Mitchell isn't available? Obviously Ricky isn't going to help us, he's busy contributing 5-2-1 to FC Barcelona these days. Maybe that kid who was helping us win games when DG was out should be on the floor with Garland?

I'm just not going to even bring up the likes of Damian Jones, Emoni Bates, Pete Nance, Shariffe Cooper, and Isaiah Mobley ... there's just no reason to expect any of them to be able to step in at a critical time and help when nothing has been done to prepare them for it.

Oh, wait, I brought them up.

I suspect that Garland isn't trying to draw contact because he's not getting any calls even when he's playing straight up and getting hammered.

JBB might as well play the second and third string tonight against the Celtics so the fans get a good hard look at what playing CPJ, Merrill and the crew looks like against defenders like white and Jrue.

Looking good?

DG isn't tired of not getting calls, he's tired of getting hurt, watching games from the sideline, and having to suck his food through a straw....