OG wanted to shoot more & we said NO

[Jcity08]

OG is in the perfect role in NY and thats where he wanted to be. If he told Masai he wanted to stay, he'd still be here. He's a very valuable 3&D player.

[djsunyc]

i like og but missing that chip run definitely affects my connection to him.

[raptor jesus]

I think both things are true:
1. OG is worth his price tag for the Knicks
2. OG is not worth his price tag for the Raps

[ItsDanger]

Seems happier in NY. OG is more valuable when there is stability in a roster's role definition. Ir wasn't going to happen here, so just accept it.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

OG is more valuable to a team than Barnes so its actually not an overpay when you put it in perspective.

Nah, when you start paying role players 40 million it's not economically sound. I think they can make it work only because players are giving them discount deals. Bridges seems like a similar player and gets paid way less.. He'll look at OG and want similar money. Will be a huge problem in the future for a team that will never win a championship.

[anotherhomer]

not sure...OG's a good player....but has limitations offensively...he can burst out though sometimes

[adubmac]

OG is more valuable to a team than Barnes so its actually not an overpay when you put it in perspective.

Nah, when you start paying role players 40 million it's not economically sound. I think they can make it work only because players are giving them discount deals. Bridges seems like a similar player and gets paid way less.. He'll look at OG and want similar money. Will be a huge problem in the future for a team that will never win a championship.

OG at 40M sounds a lot better than IQ at 30M.

[dagger]

There's a problem with too many cooks in the kitchen but the build our team has now is better. All 3 of our wings can shoot, drive, and pass. The bigs are defensively focused.

We has several miscast pieces and a lack of depth. The lack of depth and shooting hurt more than our starters. Now we have a comparable starting group and much better depth. Along with at least 2 lottery picks with Gradey and this years.

If we applied our depth to our old core we would have been a playoff team easily.

Poeltl / Maluach
Siakam / Mogbo
OG / Agbaji
Barnes / Dick / Walter
FVV / Shead

That would have had some real potential.

That team today would have a $300-million payroll with the tax.

[PushDaRock]

OG is more valuable to a team than Barnes so its actually not an overpay when you put it in perspective.

Nah, when you start paying role players 40 million it's not economically sound. I think they can make it work only because players are giving them discount deals. Bridges seems like a similar player and gets paid way less.. He'll look at OG and want similar money. Will be a huge problem in the future for a team that will never win a championship.

All-NBA Defenders who can also score 18 ppg efficiently are not role players.

[Boogie!]

OG is more valuable to a team than Barnes so its actually not an overpay when you put it in perspective.

Nah, when you start paying role players 40 million it's not economically sound. I think they can make it work only because players are giving them discount deals. Bridges seems like a similar player and gets paid way less.. He'll look at OG and want similar money. Will be a huge problem in the future for a team that will never win a championship.

All-NBA Defenders who can also score 18 ppg efficiently are not role players.

Yes they are. 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg.

[PushDaRock]

Nah, when you start paying role players 40 million it's not economically sound. I think they can make it work only because players are giving them discount deals. Bridges seems like a similar player and gets paid way less.. He'll look at OG and want similar money. Will be a huge problem in the future for a team that will never win a championship.

All-NBA Defenders who can also score 18 ppg efficiently are not role players.

Yes they are. 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg.

Jimmy Butler averaged 17.5 ppg, are we calling him a role player too?

[mdenny]

All-NBA Defenders who can also score 18 ppg efficiently are not role players.

Yes they are. 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg.

Jimmy Butler averaged 17.5 ppg, are we calling him a role player too?

I was thinking what the definition of a role player is.

Seems appropriate to say something like "any player that is not depended on to produce their own shots and/or create shots for others is a role player". But I guess that doesn't explain why a 6 man like Lou Williams or Jamal Crawford are not "role players". (They clearly were)

If we go with my definition regardless of the 6 man creator problem....then guys like gobert and OG are "role players". Ben Wallace had a couple seasons where he was the best player on his team yet still a role player. I don't know. I guess it has to be some combination of what a player is responsible for AND how impactful they are to the team.

But in regards to butler.....there is clearly a difference between a player who is isolated by the scheme to go one on one against his defender and someone like OG for whom 80% of his shot attempts are wide open.

I've been harping lately on the current emphasis on shooting efficiency and how not all shots are created equal and different types of players get different types of shots.

My guess is that OG and Curry's 3 point % is similar. But steph curry is clearly the better shooter. So efficiency doesn't tell us who shoots well outside of the context of roles and positions. Steph barely ever shoots wide open 3s. OG barely ever shoots 3s that ARENT wide open.

[Boogie!]

All-NBA Defenders who can also score 18 ppg efficiently are not role players.

Yes they are. 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg.

Jimmy Butler averaged 17.5 ppg, are we calling him a role player too?

At this point in his career he’s getting closer to one. There’s a reason why he wanted out of Miami is because they no longer wanted him to be the man…

Let’s also not forget that jimmy butler had the skill set of someone that carried heat teams to the finals. Are you seriously suggesting that og could do the same in that role?

This is why ppg in a vacuum means nothing. Trent averaged 18 ppg as a raptor too…

[PushDaRock]

Yes they are. 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg.

Jimmy Butler averaged 17.5 ppg, are we calling him a role player too?

I was thinking what the definition of a role player is.

Seems appropriate to say something like "any player that is not depended on to produce their own shots and/or create shots for others is a role player". But I guess that doesn't explain why a 6 man like Lou Williams or Jamal Crawford are not "role players". (They clearly were)

But in regards to butler.....there is clearly a difference between a player who is isolated by the scheme to go one on one against his defender and someone like OG for whom 80% of his shot attempts are wide open.

I've been harping lately on the current emphasis on shooting efficiency and how not all shots are created equal and different types of players get different types of shots.

My guess is that OG and Curry's 3 point % is similar. But steph curry is clearly the better shooter. So efficiency doesn't tell us who shoots well outside of the context of roles and positions. Steph barely ever shoots wide open 3s. OG barely ever shoots 3s that ARENT wide open.

Basically the point I was getting at is the definition has gotten so warped that any player other than a Superstar can technically be defined as one.

[PushDaRock]

Yes they are. 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg.

Jimmy Butler averaged 17.5 ppg, are we calling him a role player too?

At this point in his career he’s getting closer to one. There’s a reason why he wanted out of Miami is because they no longer wanted him to be the man…

Let’s also not forget that jimmy butler had the skill set of someone that carried heat teams to the finals. Are you seriously suggesting that og could do the same in that role?

This is why ppg in a vacuum means nothing. Trent averaged 18 ppg as a raptor too…

I don't think either of them is a role player, but if you're saying 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg, that would imply anyone scoring 18 ppg is also a role player too.

I think most people would disagree with calling Jimmy Butler a role player.

When Trent was averaging 18 ppg, I wouldn't consider him a role player at the time either. His skillset now has proven to be best suited as one though and he is now producing like one too.

[mdenny]

Jimmy Butler averaged 17.5 ppg, are we calling him a role player too?

I was thinking what the definition of a role player is.

Seems appropriate to say something like "any player that is not depended on to produce their own shots and/or create shots for others is a role player". But I guess that doesn't explain why a 6 man like Lou Williams or Jamal Crawford are not "role players". (They clearly were)

But in regards to butler.....there is clearly a difference between a player who is isolated by the scheme to go one on one against his defender and someone like OG for whom 80% of his shot attempts are wide open.

I've been harping lately on the current emphasis on shooting efficiency and how not all shots are created equal and different types of players get different types of shots.

My guess is that OG and Curry's 3 point % is similar. But steph curry is clearly the better shooter. So efficiency doesn't tell us who shoots well outside of the context of roles and positions. Steph barely ever shoots wide open 3s. OG barely ever shoots 3s that ARENT wide open.

Basically the point I was getting at is the definition has gotten so warped that any player other than a Superstar can technically be defined as one.

Hard to put the knicks in order from best to worst.

But if I was a knivk fan....I'd choose to lose KAT to injury over OG for damn sure. Heck...I'd choose to lose KAT over Josh hart lol.

[Boogie!]

Jimmy Butler averaged 17.5 ppg, are we calling him a role player too?

At this point in his career he’s getting closer to one. There’s a reason why he wanted out of Miami is because they no longer wanted him to be the man…

Let’s also not forget that jimmy butler had the skill set of someone that carried heat teams to the finals. Are you seriously suggesting that og could do the same in that role?

This is why ppg in a vacuum means nothing. Trent averaged 18 ppg as a raptor too…

I don't think either of them is a role player, but if you're saying 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg, that would imply anyone scoring 18 ppg is also a role player too.

I think most people would disagree with calling Jimmy Butler a role player.

When Trent was averaging 18 ppg, I wouldn't consider him a role player at the time either. His skillset now has proven to be best suited as one though and he is now producing like one too.

Trent was a role player. Any player that isn’t part of carrying the team is a role player. Basically a supporting piece. So for example if og didn’t have Kat or Brunson would he be the guy that carries your team to wins? No. Then he’s a role player. If you had kat and Brunson on the team and og was hurt you’d still be a decent team. On the flip side, if you didn’t have one of those guys but still had og, you wouldn’t be as good.

[bstein14]

Would be great to see Siakam and OG in the ECF this year. Boston still going to be really tough for NY but I think there's at least a decent chance.

[PushDaRock]

At this point in his career he’s getting closer to one. There’s a reason why he wanted out of Miami is because they no longer wanted him to be the man…

Let’s also not forget that jimmy butler had the skill set of someone that carried heat teams to the finals. Are you seriously suggesting that og could do the same in that role?

This is why ppg in a vacuum means nothing. Trent averaged 18 ppg as a raptor too…

I don't think either of them is a role player, but if you're saying 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg, that would imply anyone scoring 18 ppg is also a role player too.

I think most people would disagree with calling Jimmy Butler a role player.

When Trent was averaging 18 ppg, I wouldn't consider him a role player at the time either. His skillset now has proven to be best suited as one though and he is now producing like one too.

Trent was a role player. Any player that isn’t part of carrying the team is a role player. Basically a supporting piece. So for example if og didn’t have Kat or Brunson would he be the guy that carries your team to wins? No. Then he’s a role player. If you had kat and Brunson on the team and og was hurt you’d still be a decent team. On the flip side, if you didn’t have one of those guys but still had og, you wouldn’t be as good.

OG is averaging 23 ppg and has a 10-6 record without Brunson this season.

[Boogie!]

I don't think either of them is a role player, but if you're saying 18 ppg is the new 15 ppg, that would imply anyone scoring 18 ppg is also a role player too.

I think most people would disagree with calling Jimmy Butler a role player.

When Trent was averaging 18 ppg, I wouldn't consider him a role player at the time either. His skillset now has proven to be best suited as one though and he is now producing like one too.

Trent was a role player. Any player that isn’t part of carrying the team is a role player. Basically a supporting piece. So for example if og didn’t have Kat or Brunson would he be the guy that carries your team to wins? No. Then he’s a role player. If you had kat and Brunson on the team and og was hurt you’d still be a decent team. On the flip side, if you didn’t have one of those guys but still had og, you wouldn’t be as good.

OG is averaging 23 ppg and has a 10-6 record without Brunson this season.

So if Brunson goes down in the playoffs, you can confidently say that the knicks will be fine because og is still there?