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realball wrote:

tsherkin wrote:

realball wrote:Okafor? I don't think it was just injuries. He just never lived up to the hype. He was an undersized role-player at his best.

I mean, there's also that, but he would have carved out a longer career if his back didn't take him apart. He fell apart in a hurry after 2011, and it wasn't late enough in the game that it was the pace and spacing causing him issues. He was a good rebounder, he was a solid shotblocker, but he blew chunks at the line and just couldn't be leaned on as any kind of volume scorer.

Just saying, even if he kept playing for another decade, he would still be one of the most disappointing ROYs ever. He was a solid double-double kind of big man, but still just an average starter at best.

I dont agree.

Emeka was a game changer on the defensive end, and really turned it on by year 3 by upping his efficiency by eliminating the mid range jumper.

His body was already falling apart by the time he got to New Orleans, but if he stayed healthy you're looking at a guy who was a double double machine, and anchor your defense. Depending on team success I could see a couple allstar games, and him fighting for some all defensive teams.

How can this thread go on so long without a mention of Ben Simmons?

XTC wrote:

realball wrote:

tsherkin wrote:
I mean, there's also that, but he would have carved out a longer career if his back didn't take him apart. He fell apart in a hurry after 2011, and it wasn't late enough in the game that it was the pace and spacing causing him issues. He was a good rebounder, he was a solid shotblocker, but he blew chunks at the line and just couldn't be leaned on as any kind of volume scorer.

Just saying, even if he kept playing for another decade, he would still be one of the most disappointing ROYs ever. He was a solid double-double kind of big man, but still just an average starter at best.

I dont agree.

Emeka was a game changer on the defensive end, and really turned it on by year 3 by upping his efficiency by eliminating the mid range jumper.

His body was already falling apart by the time he got to New Orleans, but if he stayed healthy you're looking at a guy who was a double double machine, and anchor your defense. Depending on team success I could see a couple allstar games, and him fighting for some all defensive teams.

I don't think he was ever that kind of player. He had a couple of years in his prime (age 25-27) where he played every game, and he never really was close to being an All-Star. People thought he was going to be a Ben Wallace type of player because of his shotblocking and rebounding, but it just never fully materialized. He was never the force on defense that he needed to be to become an All-Star. And he needed to be a defensive force, because he was a role-player on offense.

realball wrote:

XTC wrote:

realball wrote:
Just saying, even if he kept playing for another decade, he would still be one of the most disappointing ROYs ever. He was a solid double-double kind of big man, but still just an average starter at best.

I dont agree.

Emeka was a game changer on the defensive end, and really turned it on by year 3 by upping his efficiency by eliminating the mid range jumper.

His body was already falling apart by the time he got to New Orleans, but if he stayed healthy you're looking at a guy who was a double double machine, and anchor your defense. Depending on team success I could see a couple allstar games, and him fighting for some all defensive teams.

I don't think he was ever that kind of player. He had a couple of years in his prime (age 25-27) where he played every game, and he never really was close to being an All-Star. People thought he was going to be a Ben Wallace type of player because of his shotblocking and rebounding, but it just never fully materialized. He was never the force on defense that he needed to be to become an All-Star. And he needed to be a defensive force, because he was a role-player on offense.

To me, Emeka is similar to Kevon Looney before he started to decline. Underrated player, but a guy who just does all the dirty work and would never be considered a star in any way. I believe some folks ranked him above Dwight in a draft and he was in position to being a number one pick, at least by minority opinion. In that sense, he was definitely a career underachiever.

UcanUwill wrote:

madskillz8 wrote:

WiggOuts wrote:MCW and Miller were a part of historically bad draft classes and were kind of the result of that.

I don't get it. In MCW's case, it has nothing to with his draft class. If anything, MCW's rookie season numbers are on par with other ROY winners. In his first ever NBA game, he got 22-7-12 with 9 steals... And he would have be in top 3 in ROY in almost every season in the last few decades.

The thing is, for whatever reason, he was somehow able to do worse every following year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartemi01.html

His numbers were good, but was he good? This phenomenon, where guys best season is his rookie season happens quite often, especially when player ends up on a trash team. Flynn, Morrison, Jahlil Okafor, Emeka Okafor, MCW, all these guys had best numbers as rookies, but it was because their teams fed them minutes and touches, not like they had anything better to do. After a year or so, people realize guys aren't that good, or they have new rookie in town, and they stop feeding these guys touches and they just fall off hard.

Good point but don't most ROY candidates play for trash teams, so they can get the opportunity? Either by stats or an eye-test, he should be in top 3 in ROY race any year.


However, he was an older rookie and somehow "causing" 76ers to win some games while they were trying to lose every game... Before getting traded in his second year, 76ers were 0-10 without him, and 11-30 with him... Not saying he was good overall, but he was good enough to be in ROY converstaion and definitely too good for tanking 76ers, so they preferred another FRP instead of him.

Tyreke Evans, dude literally peaked in his rookie season and then got worse and worse every season.

garrick wrote:Weird to see Damon Stoudamire here who had a pretty long career and had some good years with Toronto and Portland?

For a 5'10 PG he sure did have a pretty successful career.

Stoudamire doesn’t belong on this list.

PlatinumState wrote:Id say Emeka Okafor should be number 2 on that list. Damon Stoudemire and Mike Miller had a solid careers

Okafur wasn’t that bad. 45.3 WS, 11th in DPOTY voting in 2007, much better than Evans.

miamiheat319 wrote:Mike Miller got two rings as a key player off the bench, I don't think that's too bad

He messed up his knee really bad while he was still on his rookie deal. He was never 100% after that.

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I mean, Brogdon listed here, but even his career isn’t terrible. Won 6th man of the year, one of the few players that has had a 50-40-90 season. I know a lot of ROY players have been better, but a career number 15-4-4 guy does seem like, a bad player.

Looking back on the ROYs, it is a high standard, so,I see it, but idk, feel weird associating Brigdon with “worst” ROY, guy has some pretty decent accomplishment and numbers. But even though he fits the actual definition of the topic because he’s clearly not close to being a top tier at all, just feels weird to put him here.

madskillz8 wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

madskillz8 wrote:I don't get it. In MCW's case, it has nothing to with his draft class. If anything, MCW's rookie season numbers are on par with other ROY winners. In his first ever NBA game, he got 22-7-12 with 9 steals... And he would have be in top 3 in ROY in almost every season in the last few decades.

The thing is, for whatever reason, he was somehow able to do worse every following year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartemi01.html

His numbers were good, but was he good? This phenomenon, where guys best season is his rookie season happens quite often, especially when player ends up on a trash team. Flynn, Morrison, Jahlil Okafor, Emeka Okafor, MCW, all these guys had best numbers as rookies, but it was because their teams fed them minutes and touches, not like they had anything better to do. After a year or so, people realize guys aren't that good, or they have new rookie in town, and they stop feeding these guys touches and they just fall off hard.

Good point but don't most ROY candidates play for trash teams, so they can get the opportunity? Either by stats or an eye-test, he should be in top 3 in ROY race any year.

Watch on YouTube

However, he was an older rookie and somehow "causing" 76ers to win some games while they were trying to lose every game... Before getting traded in his second year, 76ers were 0-10 without him, and 11-30 with him... Not saying he was good overall, but he was good enough to be in ROY converstaion and definitely too good for tanking 76ers, so they preferred another FRP instead of him.

Yes, you are right, he did look good, for a rookie I mean. HIs instant flameout afterwards was quite surprising.

realball wrote:Just saying, even if he kept playing for another decade, he would still be one of the most disappointing ROYs ever. He was a solid double-double kind of big man, but still just an average starter at best.

Given the number of flat-out worthless busts, I can't agree with that. And Okafor was a solid like 14/10 guy who could defend quite well. He certainly wasn't a franchise player, but he was a solid player, very much not one of the most disappointing ROYs, IMHO.

It absolutely has to be MCW. Even the team he won ROY with didn't believe in him or want to keep him.

And MCW was never a positively impacftful player. He couldn't shoot and had many other holes in his game. He was horrificly inefficient too. An textbook example of counting numbers not telling the whole story. Even the team he won ROY with wasn't fooled.

Celts17Pride wrote:How can this thread go on so long without a mention of Ben Simmons?

3x allstar, 2x all defense, 1x all nba?

I was so disappointed with Tyreke. He had the athleticism and talent to be great.

Was Markell Fulz first pick? forgot.

I actually agree with Ben Simmons, compared to expectations. I remember stating that his jumper was so broke that he’d never fix it and that Ingram would be a better player.

Ben Simmons for me. I also hate how he stole that title from Brandon Ingram.

WiggOuts wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Self explanatory.
Without going too far back:

1) MCW
2) Tyreke Evans
3) Malcolm Brogdon
4) Mike Miller
5) Damon Stoudamire

HM Andrew Wiggins

MCW and Miller were a part of historically bad draft classes and were kind of the result of that. Brogdon was a 2nd round pick and overachieved big time by winning ROY so I won't hold injuries against him

Evans' career was cut very short by his own doing so his case has got to be the worst

Damon was on such a great path in Toronto but he just couldn't get over not wanting to be in Canada. I think if he allowed himself to remain there his career would've been way more successful

Does anyone know of any other ROY winner who was picked in the 2nd round other than Brogdon?
MCW is the worst by a nose over Miller because Mike had more significant role for teams in the later part.
Damon actually had better numbers in year 2 and 4 compared to his rookie year.
Interesting career by Evans who actually averaged 19/5/5 at age 28 after low points in New Orleans. then out of the league at age 30.

Celts17Pride wrote:How can this thread go on so long without a mention of Ben Simmons?

He wasn't even an actual rookie when he was awarded it so people forgot. I never considered players who missed their first seasons to injury actual rookies

antonac wrote:Tyreke and Brogdan have probably had better careers than Ben Simmons.

id like to laugh and beleive it but simmons had a great 4 yr stretch before his back and confidence broke=
3x allstar
2x def 1st team
1x all nba
2nd in dpoy voting

tyreke and brogdon have none of these accolades

madskillz8 wrote:

WiggOuts wrote:MCW and Miller were a part of historically bad draft classes and were kind of the result of that.

I don't get it. In MCW's case, it has nothing to with his draft class. If anything, MCW's rookie season numbers are on par with other ROY winners. In his first ever NBA game, he got 22-7-12 with 9 steals... And he would have be in top 3 in ROY in almost every season in the last few decades.

The thing is, for whatever reason, he was somehow able to do worse every following year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartemi01.html

MCW just was never any good and even in that bad draft he was taken WAYYYYYY too high at 12. He was legitimately a 2nd round caliber talent if you actually watched him in college. He had zero skill level for an NBA guard. Bad ballhandling ability which meant it took him a long time just to get the ball across half court and he had zero advanced moves and couldn't handle any sort of defensive pressure. Turnover prone. One of the worst players in NBA history in terms of shooting ability and just overall touch on the ball, dude routinely smoked layups hard off the backboard like an elementary schooler. There was never any possible path for him being a productive player especially once the tape was out on him. MCW is just the living embodiment of "you can give any dude in the NBA touches and they will put up numbers".