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Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 4:36 am
by RoteSchroder
This particular analysis just indicates that he’s a really good illegal screener on a team that sorely lacks big man play.
I don’t think every player would take advantage of being allowed to cheat, so Draymond’s a really good option in this aspect.
With cheating he’s likely a top 20 defender of all time, without cheating maybe he’s like top 50, which is still pretty good.
On offense he’s maybe top 200..hard to say, maybe top 300. I would say random players like Donyell Marshall could be more valuable on O just by spreading the floor better. Practically in most star-based teams (Shaq/Kobe, MJ/Pippen, LBJ/Wade, etc.) you’d take Donyell’s offense over Draymond.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 4:41 am
by iggymcfrack
RoteSchroder wrote:This particular analysis just indicates that he’s a really good illegal screener on a team that sorely lacks big man play.
I don’t think every player would take advantage of being allowed to cheat, so Draymond’s a really good option in this aspect.
With cheating he’s likely a top 20 defender of all time, without cheating maybe he’s like top 50, which is still pretty good.
On offense he’s maybe top 200..hard to say, maybe top 300. I would say random players like Donyell Marshall could be more valuable on O just by spreading the floor better. Practically in most star-based teams (Shaq/Kobe, MJ/Pippen, LBJ/Wade, etc.) you’d take Donyell’s offense over Draymond.
This is so beyond absurd. Draymond's an easy top 10 player of all-time defensively. No one's been close to him since KG and every elite player exploits the rules to the best of their ability. It's like saying Harden would only be a top 50 offensive player "without cheating". On offense, Draymond's as close to Jason Kidd as he is to Donyell Marshall. He's an elite passer and the primary playmaker for a dynasty. Donyell Marshall got to shoot more since he was on better teams, but he was less efficient and not in Draymond's universe as a passer and playmaker.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 5:01 am
by NZB2323
zero rings wrote:azcatz11 wrote:Dominator83 wrote:If he was a teams best player, that team would have gone absolutely nowhere
Do you consider him a top 100 player of all time?
He might be top 50 tbh
I think he’s every bit as good as someone like Scottie Pippen (even better defensively), but he doesn’t get the love due to his antics.
I have Green above Rodman but below Pippen. We saw what Pippen did in 94 and we saw what Green did in 20.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 5:01 am
by RoteSchroder
iggymcfrack wrote:RoteSchroder wrote:This particular analysis just indicates that he’s a really good illegal screener on a team that sorely lacks big man play.
I don’t think every player would take advantage of being allowed to cheat, so Draymond’s a really good option in this aspect.
With cheating he’s likely a top 20 defender of all time, without cheating maybe he’s like top 50, which is still pretty good.
On offense he’s maybe top 200..hard to say, maybe top 300. I would say random players like Donyell Marshall could be more valuable on O just by spreading the floor better. Practically in most star-based teams (Shaq/Kobe, MJ/Pippen, LBJ/Wade, etc.) you’d take Donyell’s offense over Draymond.
This is so beyond absurd. Draymond's an easy top 10 player of all-time defensively. No one's been close to him since KG and every elite player exploits the rules to the best of their ability. It's like saying Harden would only be a top 50 offensive player "without cheating". On offense, Draymond's as close to Jason Kidd as he is to Donyell Marshall. He's an elite passer and the primary playmaker for a dynasty. Donyell Marshall got to shoot more since he was on better teams, but he was less efficient and not in Draymond's universe as a passer and playmaker.
Where are Draymond anchored teams generally on the all-time list? I know they were pretty good when Bogut was there to anchor the team. Do any of the teams make top 20?
He’s definitely not Jason Kidd on O, lmao. You’re comparing a tier 1 passer, transition demon who runs the offense to someone whose most valuable asset on O is setting screens.
Tier 3 passing with weak scoring is not that valuable, even better offensive players like Josh Giddey and Ricky Rubio aren’t highly valued on that end.
Draymond as the best player on his team would be in the lotto every year. No chance he takes the Bosh’s Raptor teams to the playoffs for example.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 5:04 am
by whatisacenter
XTC wrote:I just wanted to shed some appreciation to Draymond Green
Want him?
You can have him.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 8:17 am
by 70sFan
Like every defensive superstar (other than Bill Russell), it is nothing new. People call Gobert a scrub, don't value Mutombo at all in all-time lists, don't mention Nate Thurmond among greats.
It's quite telling that even highly regarded defensive superstar like Hakeem Olajuwon is only valued that highly because of aesthetically pleasing offensive game. When you talk about Hakeem, most fans rave about his scoring, footwork, postseason scoring explosions but almost nobody realize that he's significantly more valuable on defense than on offense and they only add "he's also a great defender!".
Green has been included in Ben Taylor's top 25 peaks of the 21st century and most people would put someone like Melo over him for such list, which is just insane.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 8:50 am
by michaelm
SkyHook wrote:Heavy backpack for 30 and a violent sociopath who should have been banned from the league years ago. Adam Silver is permanently tarnished due to his enabling of Green.
I don’t approve of his antics, but if he is a complete sociopath it must be sheer blind luck that he has never seriously injured anyone.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 9:44 am
by bonita_the_frog
iggymcfrack wrote:If anything, someone like KD is more of a "role player" since the only skill he's really elite at is scoring. If Draymond had got drafted by the Clippers or the Rockets instead of the Warriors, there's a good chance that CP3 or Harden would be multi-time champions and Steph would be known as a ringless choker who couldn't get it done in the playoffs.
Draymond Green has similar stats to Kevin Durant, outside of PPG-
Durant 1.0 steals, 1.1 blocks, 7.0 rebounds, 4.4 assists but 5.3 assists since 2018 (his last 420 games).
Green 1.3 steals, 1.0 blocks, 6.9 rebounds, 5.6 assists.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 9:59 am
by HMFFL
SA37 wrote:No. Green is vastly overrated, mainly by folks who are data nerds and love advanced stats. Green deserves lots of credit for his pivotal role on G State's championship teams, but people have gone too far with the praise for role players.
Apparently, the Warriors, live or die by Draymond, and Lebron won the Cavs a title, with the help of Draymond being suspended in a game in the finals. I fail to see how he is just a role player. Sadly, the Warriors have no replacement for Dray, the "role player".
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 10:16 am
by NoStatsGuy
draymond green has high bball iq and can defend. this player can be found every draft probably multiple times. draymond green is nothing special. the only thing, that is special about him is his mentality and willingness to take techs for his team (or knock them out cold). If he was drafted into charlotte he'd be a nobody, and out of the league for a long time. fortunately for him, he was on the right roster at the right time. A coach, that enables his (sometimes) unacceptable behavior and the greatest shooting duo of all time, that convert his lousy passes at an incredible rate.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 10:26 am
by Dominator83
azcatz11 wrote:Dominator83 wrote:If he was a teams best player, that team would have gone absolutely nowhere
Do you consider him a top 100 player of all time?
Possibly. But the NBA has been going on for almost 80 years. That list has quite a few bubble top 100s by now.
But he would be less regarded if he spent his career trying to be a #1
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 11:11 am
by bonita_the_frog
Which is greater Draymond or Rodman?
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 11:15 am
by Bergmaniac
The Thinking Basketball podcast's latest episode (21 Century Peaks Ep. 3) has a great breakdown of why Draymond is an elite player and in the Top 20 for best peaks of the 21 century. Of course it won't convince people who can't see past PPGs but for anyone who is a bit more open minded it's highly recommended.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 11:27 am
by cupcakesnake
SA37 wrote:No. Green is vastly overrated, mainly by folks who are data nerds and love advanced stats. Green deserves lots of credit for his pivotal role on G State's championship teams, but people have gone too far with the praise for role players.
At least your consistent with how you undervalue defense.
I'm fine with calling Green's offense "role player", but this is the best defensive player of the era. He's one of the best defenders ever, probably the best defender under 6'7" of all-time.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 11:54 am
by remiga007
Tricky to rate him. He was invaluable to those GS teams because he fit their specific needs perfectly, however, I can guarantee that nobody would be including him into discussions about any top peaks had he been playing on mediocre ordinary teams.
Somebody ITT put him between Rodman and Pippen.
Well, Pippen without MJ finished third in MVP voting.
Dray with bad team without Steph/Klay in 2020 was just difficult to watch. Probably not top 100 player that year. You could say he was unmotivated on a bad team, alas, that would have projected over his full career had he been not on a an almost perennial contender.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:11 pm
by SA37
HMFFL wrote:SA37 wrote:No. Green is vastly overrated, mainly by folks who are data nerds and love advanced stats. Green deserves lots of credit for his pivotal role on G State's championship teams, but people have gone too far with the praise for role players.
Apparently, the Warriors, live or die by Draymond, and Lebron won the Cavs a title, with the help of Draymond being suspended in a game in the finals. I fail to see how he is just a role player. Sadly, the Warriors have no replacement for Dray, the "role player".
I really hoped he would leave Golden St and get exposed, but unfortunately it's not going to happen. The closest we'll come is when D Green played a season without Curry, Thompson or Wiggins (2019-2020) and Green averaged 8-6-6 on 39-28-76. He's basically Rasheed Wallace and Dennis Rodman's child.
D Green is nothing without the stars around him, much like Rodman. Role players depend on star players for relevance. Star players put up great numbers regardless of where they play, but need role players to have team success. D Green is the former, not the latter.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:13 pm
by SA37
70sFan wrote:Like every defensive superstar (other than Bill Russell), it is nothing new. People call Gobert a scrub, don't value Mutombo at all in all-time lists, don't mention Nate Thurmond among greats.
It's quite telling that even highly regarded defensive superstar like Hakeem Olajuwon is only valued that highly because of aesthetically pleasing offensive game. When you talk about Hakeem, most fans rave about his scoring, footwork, postseason scoring explosions but almost nobody realize that he's significantly more valuable on defense than on offense and they only add "he's also a great defender!".
Green has been included in Ben Taylor's top 25 peaks of the 21st century and most people would put someone like Melo over him for such list, which is just insane.
Carmelo Anthony had a great NBA career and is probably Team USA's best player of all-time.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:19 pm
by SA37
cupcakesnake wrote:SA37 wrote:No. Green is vastly overrated, mainly by folks who are data nerds and love advanced stats. Green deserves lots of credit for his pivotal role on G State's championship teams, but people have gone too far with the praise for role players.
At least your consistent with how you undervalue defense.
I'm fine with calling Green's offense "role player", but this is the best defensive player of the era. He's one of the best defenders ever, probably the best defender under 6'7" of all-time.
Overall, Green is a role player and that is how he's been paid. Golden State has never given D Green star money because he's a role player. Golden St traded for J Butler because Green is just too limited to be a top-3 guy on a championship team.
I see a lot of parallels with Marcus Smart. Boston has been fine without Marcus Smart and found better versions of Marcus Smart (J Holiday, D White).I think the same would have been true of G State, but that's speculation I can't prove.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:41 pm
by zero rings
Dominator83 wrote:azcatz11 wrote:Dominator83 wrote:If he was a teams best player, that team would have gone absolutely nowhere
Do you consider him a top 100 player of all time?
Possibly. But the NBA has been going on for almost 80 years. That list has quite a few bubble top 100s by now.
But he would be less regarded if he spent his career trying to be a #1
Being a #1 option is so incredibly overrated by fans. What matters is the value you can provide to a winning team, not how many points you can score on a bad team.
Bradley Beal averaged 30+ for multiple seasons (on solid efficiency), and it barely moved the needle for the lowly Wizards. He then goes to the Suns, a team with other good scorers, and he has absolutely zero impact. Swap him out for Draymond and they probably win 50 games last year.
A player’s value is determined by how replaceable they are. There are tons of good scorers in the league today. There aren’t tons of 6’7 wings who can defend every position at an elite level, and even fewer who are great passers. Draymond’s skillset is incredibly rare, and thus incredibly valuable.
Re: Draymond Green is underrated
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:56 pm
by zero rings
SA37 wrote:70sFan wrote:Like every defensive superstar (other than Bill Russell), it is nothing new. People call Gobert a scrub, don't value Mutombo at all in all-time lists, don't mention Nate Thurmond among greats.
It's quite telling that even highly regarded defensive superstar like Hakeem Olajuwon is only valued that highly because of aesthetically pleasing offensive game. When you talk about Hakeem, most fans rave about his scoring, footwork, postseason scoring explosions but almost nobody realize that he's significantly more valuable on defense than on offense and they only add "he's also a great defender!".
Green has been included in Ben Taylor's top 25 peaks of the 21st century and most people would put someone like Melo over him for such list, which is just insane.
Carmelo Anthony had a great NBA career and is probably Team USA's best player of all-time.
Swap Draymond for Carmelo and the Warriors probably don’t have a single championship