Q&A with Petrie

[SacKingZZZ]

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What facts?

That he was nearly dealt TWICE in the last year alone. Once to the Lakers and once to the Nuggets.

[SacKingZZZ]

I feel like Geof is starting to lose his magic, i really hope he does something quick to get this team back in track. If he lets Ron opt out, we will just be digging ourselves deeper in this whole that we're stuck in. Atleast get something back for him. If Geof is having doubts about him, he should take action right away. I do not understand why this team is sinking.

That or he finally understands that if it hasn't happened by now, there most likely won't be a way to salvage the ship. Let it sink and build a new one with the pieces you can salvage. Don't let them go down with the ship for craps sake!

[SacKingZZZ]

How is this team sinking? And why does this team sinking directly correlate with getting a package for Artest. Nothing is going to happen overnight with this team. I think the future looks bright and its just getting started.

Well nobody wants to lose a talent like Artest for nothing. Unfortunately I think I was right when I said last summer that we had to move on a trade then because it may be the last chance to get value in return. The fact remains that the majority of our team, as is, going in to next year will be constructed of young players still developing their own games. The math just doens't work, no matter how you slice it.

[BMiller52]

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That he was nearly dealt TWICE in the last year alone. Once to the Lakers and once to the Nuggets.

He wasn't nearly dealt to the Lakers. They were interested but there was no deal there.

[nolimit0820]

Getting something for Ron would be great. But in no way do I think if we do not get anything for Ron are we "digging ourselves a deeper hole." And what hole are we talking about anyway? Lol. Because I do not buy that if we get nothing for him that we are stuck. You say to tear the ship down, how would we do that? Trade every player on our roster except for the young gunz? Aim our priorities to landing that #1 pick next year? That route leads nowhere, unless you have lady luck on your side.
I am optimistic about our pieces moving forward. We got a crap load of expirings coming up pretty soon, some very promising young players and we dont have a slouch for a GM.

[SacKingZZZ]

Getting something for Ron would be great. But in no way do I think if we do not get anything for Ron are we "digging ourselves a deeper hole." And what hole are we talking about anyway? Lol. Because I do not buy that if we get nothing for him that we are stuck. You say to tear the ship down, how would we do that? Trade every player on our roster except for the young gunz? Aim our priorities to landing that #1 pick next year? That route leads nowhere, unless you have lady luck on your side.
I am optimistic about our pieces moving forward. We got a crap load of expirings coming up pretty soon, some very promising young players and we dont have a slouch for a GM.

Well for one, don't re-sign any guys like Artest to a long term big money deal until you know where you're going. Like I said before, we are headed into next season in which 70%+ of our roster consists of young guys still needing the minutes to develop. I wouldn't call it "trading every player on our roster except the young gunz", I'd call it doing the obvious and focusing in on the development of those players while hopefully not adding a ton of long term money to our cap re-signing our vets with the hopes of landing an 8th seed for a year or two. Adding to a Ron Artest lead team 3 years from now seems like a shaky plan if that's the idea. Heck, we don't even know if Ron will be here next year for sure at this point.

Any more youth sqaushing becomes far too redundant at this point.

[CWEBB#4+Kings]

Getting something for Ron would be great. But in no way do I think if we do not get anything for Ron are we "digging ourselves a deeper hole." And what hole are we talking about anyway? Lol. Because I do not buy that if we get nothing for him that we are stuck. You say to tear the ship down, how would we do that? Trade every player on our roster except for the young gunz? Aim our priorities to landing that #1 pick next year? That route leads nowhere, unless you have lady luck on your side.
I am optimistic about our pieces moving forward. We got a crap load of expirings coming up pretty soon, some very promising young players and we dont have a slouch for a GM.

I hope your right about those young promising players, because we said that two years ago..not so promising. And if you're asking me what kind of whole, look at the nba standings you'll find out.

[nolimit0820]

Kevin , Cisco, Salmons and Beno (to an extent) and Hawes are not promising? Maybe I am misunderstanding your post. I hope I am misunderstanding.

SacKing, I agree. The general consensus seems to be that adding any players at the wings would hinder the development of our young swingmen, particularly Francisco. As most agree, Ron or Salmons has got to go. Arguments can be made for each player, but regardless Garcia needs a vital role on this squad to help determine his future here. He had somewhat of a breakout season, but I believe this is the year we see major strides in his game. I think it will be similar to two years ago when Bonzi was in front of Kevin...Kevin's play proved that he needs to start. I think we will see something similar with Francisco this year.

[SacKingZZZ]

Kevin , Cisco, Salmons and Beno (to an extent) and Hawes are not promising? Maybe I am misunderstanding your post. I hope I am misunderstanding.

SacKing, I agree. The general consensus seems to be that adding any players at the wings would hinder the development of our young swingmen, particularly Francisco. As most agree, Ron or Salmons has got to go. Arguments can be made for each player, but regardless Garcia needs a vital role on this squad to help determine his future here. He had somewhat of a breakout season, but I believe this is the year we see major strides in his game. I think it will be similar to two years ago when Bonzi was in front of Kevin...Kevin's play proved that he needs to start. I think we will see something similar with Francisco this year.

I think the answer is obvious as to who it should be. Why? For about a million or so reasons. Is Ron the most talented player on this team right now? Probably. But John Salmons isn't going to be complaining about not being on contender a year from now, or making statements that with a little more work we're a championship level team. That does nothing but set everything up for eventual failure, being realistic is rule #1 in formulating a plan of attack. That and John doesn't have to be re-signed long term coming up shortly and doesn't have the "risk" involved with shelling out the dough to keep Ron. Ron wants to win, while the franchise really needs to focus on the individual development of the large amount of young players we have and will have more of soon.

It comes down to this as a final word:

I don't think we can both a) build a contender around Ron, while b) developing our young players. It simply doesn't happen in this league. Hey it could happen, but I would have bet on us winning the lottery from 12 than that.

[pillwenney]

If Ron is "complaining about not being on a contender a year from now" he can leave. But so far he has done no such thing. If anything Ron's statements have proven that he's crazy enough to think that this team can contend. And to say that him saying that is a bad thing is just silly IMO.

And well, I basically just disagree with the last part. I mean I agree that we can't build a contender around Ron, but we can still keep him around for the time being, and try to maintain the success that the team is having. If anything, Ron is helping with the development of the young guys, by constantly working with them.

There's a reason that most players see their greatest improvements from one season to the next, as opposed to improving over the course of a season--practice makes perfect. Using Kevin as an example, he didn't improve so drastically because of the playing time he got off the bench in his second year. He improved because he worked tirelessly on his game in the gym throughout his rookie year and over the summers. He showed what he could do when given the opportunity, and earned his playing time--not by being given "entitlement" minutes, but by earning them, and then getting the right opportunity when Bonzi got injured and then left.

[SacKingZZZ]

If Ron is "complaining about not being on a contender a year from now" he can leave. But so far he has done no such thing. If anything Ron's statements have proven that he's crazy enough to think that this team can contend. And to say that him saying that is a bad thing is just silly IMO.

And well, I basically just disagree with the last part. I mean I agree that we can't build a contender around Ron, but we can still keep him around for the time being, and try to maintain the success that the team is having. If anything, Ron is helping with the development of the young guys, by constantly working with them.

There's a reason that most players see their greatest improvements from one season to the next, as opposed to improving over the course of a season--practice makes perfect. Using Kevin as an example, he didn't improve so drastically because of the playing time he got off the bench in his second year. He improved because he worked tirelessly on his game in the gym throughout his rookie year and over the summers. He showed what he could do when given the opportunity, and earned his playing time--not by being given "entitlement" minutes, but by earning them, and then getting the right opportunity when Bonzi got injured and then left.

Well by the time he does start complaining we may not be able to give him away if we have signed him long term by that point. And I make note of every LITTLE thing I read. He has already started complaining when minutes were relegated for the development of the young players. Nothing big, nothing major, but definitely signs of what could come. I don't blame him either. If the Kings brass are telling him that they want to or can build a team around Ron that will compete within his time frame then they are not telling the truth 100%.

And the other MAJOR point is that the "time being" is at most the next season. After that it's put up or shut up time. Do we spend a good chunk of our cap on Ron Artest, or let him walk and commit to another direction. Like I said before, I don't mind keeping Ron if they truly plan on putting the pieces Ron both wants and needs around him but with the direction we are heading it really makes no sense for either party.

And I would strongly argue that Kevin, if given an immediate chance to develop his game, would simply have been on the NBA radar a year or two earlier than he was. Heck, he may even be much farther along in his now developing skill to create for others. But who's to say really. I don't mind what has happened the last four years, but it has to stop when 70% of your roster needs to focus on individual development instead of becoming a role player on a team built around Ron Artest.

[pillwenney]

The only reason we were playing the younger guys was that we had no chance of making the playoffs, but Ron still wanted to try as long as it was possible. But I don't foresee that permanently being a problem because I don't think we'll play anybody to "develop" them ever as long as the team still has a chance at being relevant for that given year--the young guys will earn their time.

I agree that we're in an awkward situation, but another thing to consider is the Artest-Salmons situation. I think we all agree that that will be a "one or the other" situation. If Ron is re-signed long term, I see Salmons' salary likely being cleared off. So either way, assuming that Ron's contract is around $10mil a year there really won't be that huge of a difference financially.

And I would strongly argue that Kevin, if given an immediate chance to develop his game, would simply have been on the NBA radar a year or two earlier than he was. Heck, he may even be much farther along in his now developing skill to create for others. But who's to say really. I don't mind what has happened the last four years, but it has to stop when 70% of your roster needs to focus on individual development instead of becoming a role player on a team built around Ron Artest.

You mean....like...the beginning of his rookie year? I mean, seriously? If so, your expectations are very unrealistic. No amount of "forcing players into games and calling that 'development'" is going to make them immediately ready. Kevin was not immediately ready to play in this league. Coming in, he was even skinnier than he currently is (by a decent amount), he didn't know really much of anything about moving without the ball, he wasn't even that good of a shooter. Giving him entitlement minutes because of his age wouldn't have helped this. You know what did help this? Working tirelessly with Coachie, figuring out the mechanics on his shot, working in practice on the development of his game. I'd say Shelden is a good example of somebody who has some things that have to be worked on out of the game before anything else.

Like to keep it simple, I would say that there are two basic aspects of developing a young player--skills and basketball IQ/feel for the game. If a player doesn't have the skills to play, then he flat out shouldn't be playing right now, because getting heavy game time minutes isn't going to help him. Like if we were to draft Ibaka for instance (just an example), it wouldn't make sense to play him right away because he doesn't currently have many skills to work with, and those need to be developed on his own time and in practice. Right now I think Shelden, and to a lesser extent, Quincy fall under this category.

I think that once the skills are developed (and just because somebody is a skilled college player, doesn't mean they're a skilled pro), then if the skills are good enough, the player can be a contributer. But since they haven't yet learned the game's nuances and just over all adjusted to play in the NBA, they're not ready to be the players they'll once be. I think Spencer is a perfect example of this--he already has developed a lot of the skills he'll be using in this league, but he's not close to his potential because of a current lack of experience and maturity (physically and mentally). But nonetheless, his skills have earned him a spot in our rotation. I also think it's important to not assume that more minutes definitely=more development.

[BMiller52]

The only reason we were playing the younger guys was that we had no chance of making the playoffs, but Ron still wanted to try as long as it was possible. But I don't foresee that permanently being a problem because I don't think we'll play anybody to "develop" them ever as long as the team still has a chance at being relevant for that given year--the young guys will earn their time.

I agree that we're in an awkward situation, but another thing to consider is the Artest-Salmons situation. I think we all agree that that will be a "one or the other" situation. If Ron is re-signed long term, I see Salmons' salary likely being cleared off. So either way, assuming that Ron's contract is around $10mil a year there really won't be that huge of a difference financially.

And I would strongly argue that Kevin, if given an immediate chance to develop his game, would simply have been on the NBA radar a year or two earlier than he was. Heck, he may even be much farther along in his now developing skill to create for others. But who's to say really. I don't mind what has happened the last four years, but it has to stop when 70% of your roster needs to focus on individual development instead of becoming a role player on a team built around Ron Artest.

You mean....like...the beginning of his rookie year? I mean, seriously? If so, your expectations are very unrealistic. No amount of "forcing players into games and calling that 'development'" is going to make them immediately ready. Kevin was not immediately ready to play in this league. Coming in, he was even skinnier than he currently is (by a decent amount), he didn't know really much of anything about moving without the ball, he wasn't even that good of a shooter. Giving him entitlement minutes because of his age wouldn't have helped this. You know what did help this? Working tirelessly with Coachie, figuring out the mechanics on his shot, working in practice on the development of his game. I'd say Shelden is a good example of somebody who has some things that have to be worked on out of the game before anything else.

Like to keep it simple, I would say that there are two basic aspects of developing a young player--skills and basketball IQ/feel for the game. If a player doesn't have the skills to play, then he flat out shouldn't be playing right now, because getting heavy game time minutes isn't going to help him. Like if we were to draft Ibaka for instance (just an example), it wouldn't make sense to play him right away because he doesn't currently have many skills to work with, and those need to be developed on his own time and in practice. Right now I think Shelden, and to a lesser extent, Quincy fall under this category.

I think that once the skills are developed (and just because somebody is a skilled college player, doesn't mean they're a skilled pro), then if the skills are good enough, the player can be a contributer. But since they haven't yet learned the game's nuances and just over all adjusted to play in the NBA, they're not ready to be the players they'll once be. I think Spencer is a perfect example of this--he already has developed a lot of the skills he'll be using in this league, but he's not close to his potential because of a current lack of experience and maturity (physically and mentally). But nonetheless, his skills have earned him a spot in our rotation. I also think it's important to not assume that more minutes definitely=more development.

Yeah I actually think giving Kevin a lot of minutes that early would've done more to end his career than help it. That would've killed his confidence and physically+skills wise he was definitely not ready to play. Like you said Shelden's another guy like that, who needs to get his body into better shape and work with a coach who can help him figure some of this stuff out.

Coachie probably would've helped Douby too, oh well.

[SacKingZZZ]

The only reason we were playing the younger guys was that we had no chance of making the playoffs, but Ron still wanted to try as long as it was possible. But I don't foresee that permanently being a problem because I don't think we'll play anybody to "develop" them ever as long as the team still has a chance at being relevant for that given year--the young guys will earn their time.

I agree that we're in an awkward situation, but another thing to consider is the Artest-Salmons situation. I think we all agree that that will be a "one or the other" situation. If Ron is re-signed long term, I see Salmons' salary likely being cleared off. So either way, assuming that Ron's contract is around $10mil a year there really won't be that huge of a difference financially.

And I would strongly argue that Kevin, if given an immediate chance to develop his game, would simply have been on the NBA radar a year or two earlier than he was. Heck, he may even be much farther along in his now developing skill to create for others. But who's to say really. I don't mind what has happened the last four years, but it has to stop when 70% of your roster needs to focus on individual development instead of becoming a role player on a team built around Ron Artest.

You mean....like...the beginning of his rookie year? I mean, seriously? If so, your expectations are very unrealistic. No amount of "forcing players into games and calling that 'development'" is going to make them immediately ready. Kevin was not immediately ready to play in this league. Coming in, he was even skinnier than he currently is (by a decent amount), he didn't know really much of anything about moving without the ball, he wasn't even that good of a shooter. Giving him entitlement minutes because of his age wouldn't have helped this. You know what did help this? Working tirelessly with Coachie, figuring out the mechanics on his shot, working in practice on the development of his game. I'd say Shelden is a good example of somebody who has some things that have to be worked on out of the game before anything else.

Like to keep it simple, I would say that there are two basic aspects of developing a young player--skills and basketball IQ/feel for the game. If a player doesn't have the skills to play, then he flat out shouldn't be playing right now, because getting heavy game time minutes isn't going to help him. Like if we were to draft Ibaka for instance (just an example), it wouldn't make sense to play him right away because he doesn't currently have many skills to work with, and those need to be developed on his own time and in practice. Right now I think Shelden, and to a lesser extent, Quincy fall under this category.

I think that once the skills are developed (and just because somebody is a skilled college player, doesn't mean they're a skilled pro), then if the skills are good enough, the player can be a contributer. But since they haven't yet learned the game's nuances and just over all adjusted to play in the NBA, they're not ready to be the players they'll once be. I think Spencer is a perfect example of this--he already has developed a lot of the skills he'll be using in this league, but he's not close to his potential because of a current lack of experience and maturity (physically and mentally). But nonetheless, his skills have earned him a spot in our rotation. I also think it's important to not assume that more minutes definitely=more development.

I guess that's the conundrum isn't it. Our definition of "relevance" are a little different.

And my problem isn't just re-signing Ron to a 10 million a year deal, he is well worth that and more from a talent standpoint, it's that we are signing a player that will invariably have very little trade value after signing such a deal in case we did need to move him. And since we aren't keeping him so we don't damage the core of a contender, I say...blech.

And it's not called "entitlement" minutes. It's called "expediting the process" as Geoff himself has said he may plan on doing at multiple points throughout the last couple of years. No rookie is really ready to play in the league. Well, they are. It's still a game afterall and unless they are from a remote island somewhere and just picked up a basketball a few weeks before discovery then sure, they aren't ready.

That 1st year is like what Spencer experienced, just getting to know the game and how it differs from previous experience in a competitive environment. I am not arguing that we should have made Kevin a starter his 1st year. We were at a completely different state of transition at that point. Kevin was literally the ONLY developing 1st round draft pick we had at the time and came onto a team still built around CWebb, Doug Christie, and Peja Stojakovic. We will soon have 7 that need development (assuming we re-sign Beno)! Quite a difference a few years makes.

Theoretically Kevin would also have hit the "rookie wall" a little sooner. That is the real key the 1st year. Understanding the kind of physical and cardiovascular shape you have to be in to maintain an 82 game schedule. Not to mention how all the travel relates to it. Kevin didn't hit it until his 3rd year in the league. Not to say I disagree with how Kevins development went. It think it has gone well and obviously nobody, including Kevin himself most likely, would change a thing. But if our team at the time was in the state it is in now, to leave him on the bench would be a rediculous waste of time.

And I don't believe in the "if you play hard in practice you'll earn minutes!" mantra. Bull crap. At least not when you seemingly have a log jam at most positions, mostly made up of a high priced verterans. Not to mention a rookie coach getting mixed messages from the higher ups on the goals of the franchise. Reggie wants to win and obviously felt danger to his job security had he gone into the offseason with a record worse than the year before. Who is he going to trust to lead his team? Duh. And As I brought up before, that's not his fault at all. it's whoever is giving him orders on what the franchise is trying to accomplish.

[SacKingZZZ]

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Yeah I actually think giving Kevin a lot of minutes that early would've done more to end his career than help it. That would've killed his confidence and physically+skills wise he was definitely not ready to play. Like you said Shelden's another guy like that, who needs to get his body into better shape and work with a coach who can help him figure some of this stuff out.

Coachie probably would've helped Douby too, oh well.

Eh, if Kevin can fight through all the stuff he's had to go through, from being left off of the playoff roster in 04-05, to continually being placed behind another SG, I'd say him being metally tough didn't just appear in his 4th year. It was there the whole time. It's that mental toughness shown in those individual circumstances that make me believe he would have just been on the radar a little sooner.

[pillwenney]

The only reason we were playing the younger guys was that we had no chance of making the playoffs, but Ron still wanted to try as long as it was possible. But I don't foresee that permanently being a problem because I don't think we'll play anybody to "develop" them ever as long as the team still has a chance at being relevant for that given year--the young guys will earn their time.

I agree that we're in an awkward situation, but another thing to consider is the Artest-Salmons situation. I think we all agree that that will be a "one or the other" situation. If Ron is re-signed long term, I see Salmons' salary likely being cleared off. So either way, assuming that Ron's contract is around $10mil a year there really won't be that huge of a difference financially.

And I would strongly argue that Kevin, if given an immediate chance to develop his game, would simply have been on the NBA radar a year or two earlier than he was. Heck, he may even be much farther along in his now developing skill to create for others. But who's to say really. I don't mind what has happened the last four years, but it has to stop when 70% of your roster needs to focus on individual development instead of becoming a role player on a team built around Ron Artest.

You mean....like...the beginning of his rookie year? I mean, seriously? If so, your expectations are very unrealistic. No amount of "forcing players into games and calling that 'development'" is going to make them immediately ready. Kevin was not immediately ready to play in this league. Coming in, he was even skinnier than he currently is (by a decent amount), he didn't know really much of anything about moving without the ball, he wasn't even that good of a shooter. Giving him entitlement minutes because of his age wouldn't have helped this. You know what did help this? Working tirelessly with Coachie, figuring out the mechanics on his shot, working in practice on the development of his game. I'd say Shelden is a good example of somebody who has some things that have to be worked on out of the game before anything else.

Like to keep it simple, I would say that there are two basic aspects of developing a young player--skills and basketball IQ/feel for the game. If a player doesn't have the skills to play, then he flat out shouldn't be playing right now, because getting heavy game time minutes isn't going to help him. Like if we were to draft Ibaka for instance (just an example), it wouldn't make sense to play him right away because he doesn't currently have many skills to work with, and those need to be developed on his own time and in practice. Right now I think Shelden, and to a lesser extent, Quincy fall under this category.

I think that once the skills are developed (and just because somebody is a skilled college player, doesn't mean they're a skilled pro), then if the skills are good enough, the player can be a contributer. But since they haven't yet learned the game's nuances and just over all adjusted to play in the NBA, they're not ready to be the players they'll once be. I think Spencer is a perfect example of this--he already has developed a lot of the skills he'll be using in this league, but he's not close to his potential because of a current lack of experience and maturity (physically and mentally). But nonetheless, his skills have earned him a spot in our rotation. I also think it's important to not assume that more minutes definitely=more development.

I guess that's the conundrum isn't it. Our definition of "relevance" are a little different.

And my problem isn't just re-signing Ron to a 10 million a year deal, he is well worth that and more from a talent standpoint, it's that we are signing a player that will invariably have very little trade value after signing such a deal in case we did need to move him. And since we aren't keeping him so we don't damage the core of a contender, I say...blech.

And it's not called "entitlement" minutes. It's called "expediting the process" as Geoff himself has said he may plan on doing at multiple points throughout the last couple of years. No rookie is really ready to play in the league. Well, they are. It's still a game afterall and unless they are from a remote island somewhere and just picked up a basketball a few weeks before discovery then sure, they aren't ready.

That 1st year is like what Spencer experienced, just getting to know the game and how it differs from previous experience in a competitive environment. I am not arguing that we should have made Kevin a starter his 1st year. We were at a completely different state of transition at that point. Kevin was literally the ONLY developing 1st round draft pick we had at the time and came onto a team still built around CWebb, Doug Christie, and Peja Stojakovic. We will soon have 7 that need development (assuming we re-sign Beno)! Quite a difference a few years makes.

Theoretically Kevin would also have hit the "rookie wall" a little sooner. That is the real key the 1st year. Understanding the kind of physical and cardiovascular shape you have to be in to maintain an 82 game schedule. Not to mention how all the travel relates to it. Kevin didn't hit it until his 3rd year in the league. Not to say I disagree with how Kevins development went. It think it has gone well and obviously nobody, including Kevin himself most likely, would change a thing. But if our team at the time was in the state it is in now, to leave him on the bench would be a rediculous waste of time.

And I don't believe in the "if you play hard in practice you'll earn minutes!" mantra. Bull crap. At least not when you seemingly have a log jam at most positions, mostly made up of a high priced verterans. Not to mention a rookie coach getting mixed messages from the higher ups on the goals of the franchise. Reggie wants to win and obviously felt danger to his job security had he gone into the offseason with a record worse than the year before. Who is he going to trust to lead his team? Duh. And As I brought up before, that's not his fault at all. it's whoever is giving him orders on what the franchise is trying to accomplish.

It depends on the deal itself, but I really don't think it would make a big difference in most cases. If a team wants to win now (which would be the case for most teams looking to acquire Ron), they're not typically going to worry too much about whether Ron is paid $7mil a year or $10mil a year--the point is to acquire a player ready to play right now.

And there's nothing wrong with "expediting the process", but there is something wrong with jamming players into games in hopes that that alone will make them a better player. The players have a responsibility here too, and they have to be ready to play and contribute towards something positive before they can get real playing time.

Yeah, but the point remains true--Kevin developed just fine as a player despite not being given those minutes. So you really don't need a bunch of playing time to become a good player in this league. In fact, the lack of minutes inspired him to work harder to develop his own game--that's the kind of guy I want on my team.

And? What would have happened differently? Kevin would have maybe not slowed down as much last year, but he seems to be used to the wear and tear of an NBA regular season at this point, so it never really made a huge difference.

I think we're in the situation where really anybody on the team that is young enough to "need development" as you put it, can earn playing time. If Shelden works really hard on his game this summer and develops some of the skills he needs to, he has a shot at overtaking Mikki this year. But he's going to have to work for it, which is a much better way to motivate someone than to say "here's 30 mpg, figure it out". In order to learn the ins and outs of the NBA game, you first have to have the skills to screw up with. Spencer does. Shelden doesn't.

And as it is, nobody is keeping really anybody but Shelden and Quincy from getting PT. And they'll have to earn it. And particularly with Shelden, he's going to have to get more skilled to earn it. You don't get more skilled in games, you get more skilled in practice.

[SacKingZZZ]

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It depends on the deal itself, but I really don't think it would make a big difference in most cases. If a team wants to win now (which would be the case for most teams looking to acquire Ron), they're not typically going to worry too much about whether Ron is paid $7mil a year or $10mil a year--the point is to acquire a player ready to play right now.

And there's nothing wrong with "expediting the process", but there is something wrong with jamming players into games in hopes that that alone will make them a better player. The players have a responsibility here too, and they have to be ready to play and contribute towards something positive before they can get real playing time.

Yeah, but the point remains true--Kevin developed just fine as a player despite not being given those minutes. So you really don't need a bunch of playing time to become a good player in this league. In fact, the lack of minutes inspired him to work harder to develop his own game--that's the kind of guy I want on my team.

And? What would have happened differently? Kevin would have maybe not slowed down as much last year, but he seems to be used to the wear and tear of an NBA regular season at this point, so it never really made a huge difference.

I think we're in the situation where really anybody on the team that is young enough to "need development" as you put it, can earn playing time. If Shelden works really hard on his game this summer and develops some of the skills he needs to, he has a shot at overtaking Mikki this year. But he's going to have to work for it, which is a much better way to motivate someone than to say "here's 30 mpg, figure it out". In order to learn the ins and outs of the NBA game, you first have to have the skills to screw up with. Spencer does. Shelden doesn't.

And as it is, nobody is keeping really anybody but Shelden and Quincy from getting PT. And they'll have to earn it. And particularly with Shelden, he's going to have to get more skilled to earn it. You don't get more skilled in games, you get more skilled in practice.

Of course they need to be ready. But the organization has a responsibility to them as well, and even moreso themselves to put them in a situation to succeed. Otherwise they are just wasting time for not only the player but the team as well.

Uh, yeah, most players kind of do need game time to develop. All I have ever heard from players is that you don't really learn until you APPLY what you've learned. You can practice a million times over and still not get us much needed understanding as playing a real game. Hence why the D-league is becoming such a big deal for the NBA. Now for some reason Geoff seems to not like the D-league, I remember hearing that somewhere, it may be a coach thing ,I'm not sure. If Kevin hadn't gotten the time he has over the last two years he would still be that 10 ppg guy off the bench playing 25 mpg. Would he still be a good player? Sure, but if a tree falls in the forest and....well you get the point.

Believe me, Shelden has skills. He is being very underrated here. More importanly he has a skill we supposedly really need, REBOUNDING. Same thing with Justin, yet for some reason they don't play.

[pillwenney]

-= original quote snipped =-



Of course they need to be ready. But the organization has a responsibility to them as well, and even moreso themselves to put them in a situation to succeed. Otherwise they are just wasting time for not only the player but the team as well.

Uh, yeah, most players kind of do need game time to develop. All I have ever heard from players is that you don't really learn until you APPLY what you've learned. You can practice a million times over and still not get us much needed understanding as playing a real game. Hence why the D-league is becoming such a big deal for the NBA. Now for some reason Geoff seems to not like the D-league, I remember hearing that somewhere, it may be a coach thing ,I'm not sure. If Kevin hadn't gotten the time he has over the last two years he would still be that 10 ppg guy off the bench playing 25 mpg. Would he still be a good player? Sure, but if a tree falls in the forest and....well you get the point.

Believe me, Shelden has skills. He is being very underrated here. More importanly he has a skill we supposedly really need, REBOUNDING. Same thing with Justin, yet for some reason they don't play.

Yeah, but you have to actually learn it first. That's the point. The Kings haven't had much of a chance to work with him on what he needs to work on because of the timing of the Bibby trade. The summer is when players usually really improve their games, so I'll be interested to see where Shelden is at in October.

To say Kevin is an example here is to miss the point. Kevin played well when given the opportunity, and showed that he can really be a contributer. Shelden got an opportunity at the end of the year when Brad and Ron were injured, and frankly, didn't consistently show much. That's not to say that he still couldn't after he develops over the summer. But that's just it--he needs to work on his game now to show his improvement later. There's a reason that you don't usually see a player drastically improve over the course of a season--at least not nearly as much as they have after an offseason.

Shelden has some skills, but I wouldn't trust him to consistently be a positive contributor at the moment. But if he does have so many skills, then it shouldn't be too difficult for him to earn minutes over an average player like Mikki Moore.

[SacTown Kings]

Getting more experience and losing some weight will do wonders for Sheldon, at least that is what I'd like to believe.

[Smills91]

Getting more experience and losing some weight will do wonders for Sheldon, at least that is what I'd like to believe.

Yeah and I beleive that if we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya that Islamo-facists will stop attempting to terrorize western civilization.