EG post Abe era started Nov 24, 2009 - Eval EG from then

[nate33]

$8.5M a year for a guy who averages 11 points and 10 boards per 36 minutes (over the past 3 seasons). That might be about the going rate in free agency, but it's a bit tougher to swallow since they gave up a mid-first round pick in the process. Overall, I think the Thunder will look back on this and be mildly disappointed.

[Rafael122]

$8.5M a year for a guy who averages 11 points and 10 boards per 36 minutes (over the past 3 seasons). That might be about the going rate in free agency, but it's a bit tougher to swallow since they gave up a mid-first round pick in the process. Overall, I think the Thunder will look back on this and be mildly disappointed.

This is their Etan Thomas contract, if we're trying to compare OKC and the Wizards.

[fishercob]

$8.5M a year for a guy who averages 11 points and 10 boards per 36 minutes (over the past 3 seasons). That might be about the going rate in free agency, but it's a bit tougher to swallow since they gave up a mid-first round pick in the process. Overall, I think the Thunder will look back on this and be mildly disappointed.

I'm surprised that you feel this way. He's basically a younger, better version of Haywood -- an elite post defender and great team/glue guy. Given what else the Thunder have in place, I'm not sure what else they could have done that made more sense.

Another interesting tweet nugget from Woj:

OKC increased Perkins' 2010-'11 salary $2.3M to $6.70M and did extension off new number. Creative work by GM Sam Presti and agent Bob Myers.

Sam Presti = The Urologist!

[Illuminaire]

Hmmm. I wonder how that factors into the final number.

I like Perkins too, Fish. If his final salary ends up being around 7-8 million a year, for a solid starting center who plays great defense, that's not bad. (If he can stay healthy)

[nate33]

$8.5M a year for a guy who averages 11 points and 10 boards per 36 minutes (over the past 3 seasons). That might be about the going rate in free agency, but it's a bit tougher to swallow since they gave up a mid-first round pick in the process. Overall, I think the Thunder will look back on this and be mildly disappointed.

I'm surprised that you feel this way. He's basically a younger, better version of Haywood -- an elite post defender and great team/glue guy. Given what else the Thunder have in place, I'm not sure what else they could have done that made more sense.

I'd be uncomfortable paying Haywood $8.5M a year too.

I don't want to be too hard on Presti. Time will tell. Maybe that contract turns out to be fair. I don't see how it will ever be perceived as a bargain though. My real issue is with the trade. In general, I think it's a waste of resources to sacrifice a reasonably high pick for a free agent, especially when you have the cap room to sign him outright in the offseason.

[LyricalRico]

$34 million/4 years, isn't that the same money he turned down from Boston?

IIRC the Boston deal was only for $24M over the same 4 year period. It still would have been a raise, but would have been basically an MLE deal.

[cdouglas]

DC fans are beginning to react like the fans of the past where they attend games just to glance at the stars of the opponents team and to cheer and chant MVP for their star players. I was angry with the fans reaction but now realize they're sick of fool's gold and sick and tire of a franchise that appears to be going nowhere. Starting all over again!! They're sick of being the blunt of TNTs and ESPNs jokes. Enough is Enough!! This city deserves so much more than a repeat of a lottery team. They deserve much more than to hear NBA players rejecting to play for their franchise. It all seems to be a joke even the name Wizard is a joke. DC fans deserve to hold their heads up with pride. We deserve a
GM that demands to contend for a championship instead of mediocrity. There is a saying that history repeats itself and if you look at the history of this team, it has a history of losing. Looks like the Wiz are repeating their old history and the fans no longer have the patience to watch this and I can't blame them.

[fishercob]

I think it makes sense under the following circumstances:

(A) OKC has two perimeter superstars and needed a real center to allow Ibaka to play PF
(B) OKC has yet to land a meaningful addition via free agency

Consolidating assets was OKC's chance to get Perkins, arguably the best center on the market (you could argue Marc Gasol, but I think Perkins being a better defender and lower usage on offense makes him a better fit. also I think Memphis will keep Gasol). If he helped lead them to the FInals, how much would his price have gone up?

I agree that the deal won't be seen as a "bargain," per se, but it might be the final piece to the puzzle for the Thunder which is a lot more important.

[LyricalRico]

I agree that the deal won't be seen as a "bargain," per se, but it might be the final piece to the puzzle for the Thunder which is a lot more important.

And I think that's the key for how this deal will be viewed. If Perkins really is the "final piece", then this is a great deal for OKC. But it may take a couple years before we know that, so for the moment I'll give the edge to Boston because of the pick.

[Induveca]

The Butler trade was disappointing. Arenas trade as well. Jamison as well.

While teams like New York, Miami, Dallas, Chicago, Los Angeles aim to be competitive with free agent signings and trades, and getting solid bang for their buck we aim for lottery balls and "cap space" which we immediately spend on middling players like Hinrich and Yi.

Again, huge F from me.

I seriously question your objectivity. Any rational analysis of those trades puts the Wizards as the clear winner. It's not even debateable.

Considering those trades netted us Thornton, Lewis......and Howard, Yi, Jordan Crawford & Mo Evans.....color me unimpressed. Our cap is close to maxed out next year, I'm not clapping for another year of bottom dwelling and the complete delusion that Dwight Howard will join a 15-25 win team in 2012. The best center in the game isn't joining a perennial loser.

If we actually signed players of significance.......I'd agree with you Nate. If the trades never materialize into nothing more than "future ap flexibility", who cares? Grunfeld proved with the Howard/Yi/Hinrich deals he's incapable of attracting anything more than mediocre players. I see a guy like Troy Murphy doing well with the Celtics and Grunfeld offering him 16m/4 years. Exactly his kind of player.

[Induveca]

DC fans are beginning to react like the fans of the past where they attend games just to glance at the stars of the opponents team and to cheer and chant MVP for their star players. I was angry with the fans reaction but now realize they're sick of fool's gold and sick and tire of a franchise that appears to be going nowhere. Starting all over again!! They're sick of being the blunt of TNTs and ESPNs jokes. Enough is Enough!! This city deserves so much more than a repeat of a lottery team. They deserve much more than to hear NBA players rejecting to play for their franchise. It all seems to be a joke even the name Wizard is a joke. DC fans deserve to hold their heads up with pride. We deserve a
GM that demands to contend for a championship instead of mediocrity. There is a saying that history repeats itself and if you look at the history of this team, it has a history of losing. Looks like the Wiz are repeating their old history and the fans no longer have the patience to watch this and I can't blame them.

Amen. There is a lot of passion in DC for competitive basketball, not front office cap moves. I think more than anything the fans deserve a team that has a chance of winning each night.

Outside of Wall/Young/Seraphin/Booker (maybe Crawford) this team is trash, and it's an embarrassment to DC fans. And out of those only two would see rotation minutes on a handful of teams.

[Nivek]

Our cap is close to maxed out next year

You're not wrong in saying this, but not quite right either. The cap situation for next season is pretty fluid right now. Let Yi, Thornton and Young depart, and the Wiz would have approximately $10.4 million in cap space (assuming the cap next season is the same as it is this year). That includes accounting for the 2 1st round picks as the 4th and 20th picks overall).

But, if the Wiz sign Young to even a fairly modest deal, they won't be able to offer a max contract to a free agent unless they can make other deals to unload salary. Looking at the 2011 free agent class (assuming the league even has free agent signings this offseason), it might be smarter to pass on signing Young and do another year of "Bring Out Your Dead" and then go free agent hunting in 2012.

[hands11]

The Sixers just hired a shooting coach for Evan Turner.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/six ... urner.html

This^^is an example of the difference between a team run by Ernie Grunfeld, and every other team that is serious about building a successful team. The Pacers bring in Bill Walton to work with Roy Hibbert, the Sixers hire a shooting coach to work with Turner. Ernie has had his job for 7 years, brings-in raw guys like McGee, Seraphin & Hamady and leaves them with good-hearted assistants, but not the specialists required to develop raw-players into the kind assets this team needs.

Ernie does trades, and not-much else, he is a weak Captain of the ship.

We had a shooting coach for a few years. Did you forget that ?

As for the Nick C post. Isn't that dude like 31 already ?

The declining contract has to also do with declining production from him. Dude is way over paid this year and at a cost of two years of Dray. So they are paying Nick similar to Dray money for two years and you think that is a win ?

Dray will make 5.9M this year and 6.5M next year and he is like 25. His production isn't going to just drop like Collison and he has value in a trade.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andray_bl ... stats.html

Nick is making 13.2 this year than signed till he is 35 making 3M a couple years and then declining.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nick_coll ... stats.html

So come year 3 of both deal we will be paying 27 year old Dray 4M more than 33 year old Nick. Doesn't seem out of line to me.
You argument doesn't seem to be as strong as you were trying to make it.

[hands11]

I give Grunfeld an F for building the team he's been taking apart for the past 13 months. I give him an A for taking that team apart. What does that average out to? I don't know, but I think he's done a good job pulling apart that colossal failure that he helped to build.

Considering it has been mostly about pulling it apart and not so much about constructing it as much as accumulating assets, weighting those two thing equally would be a miscalculation.

The only sure part we added is Wall.

Next level is the likely pieces that could stay.
Nick, Crawford, Booker, and Seraphin. Three are rookies so evaluating them now would be hard.

After that, I see assets that could stay or go.
Dray was a long shot taken in round 2 who have over achieved given where they got him.
McGee was a huge project and best player to get at the slot who still may work out. Two and half years on a project like McGee isn't enough time. Specially with all the changes that happened.

Then you sprinkle in the vets
- Howard signed for 1 year cheap. No biggy.
- Lewis was an upgrade to Gil in all aspects. Better personality and cheaper contract. Win there.

The rebuilding is just at stage 1. The blow up is almost complete. It would be more fair to weight them accordingly. Plus add the accumulated assets in players and picks.

[hands11]

There are many fair points here. Really, I don't think Ernie is that hard to assess though:

>< He has a good eye for talent, but not maturity.
>< He can follow a plan, but not set a good one himself.
>< He can make good incremental trades.
>< He has no imagination when it comes to playing with cap numbers and salaries.

Add it all up and you have a solid but unimpressive GM. You can do worse. A LOT worse. But if you have the chance to get a better guy with vision and cap creativity, you do it.

Sounds like a potentially far assessment.

But I would add in, didn't the way he signed Dray save cap because of when he did it. It ended up rolling in some money into this year ?

Also, Booker and Seraphin seem to break the mold. They are not only mature but physical. To things people say EG doesn't pick. And now he added Crawford who many think was a steal. Even Mo Evans seems mature and physical. And there is a first to come along with that. Kirk was mature and physical for a guard. His trend is player selection seems to be shifting. Wall is also a mature kid also. Maybe the Gil thing along with Nick, and McGee has changed him some.

[BigA]

If you signed Dray to a descending contract, he'd be broke and have to move into the Verizon Center by the 2nd or 3rd year. Or maybe a warehouse/storage facility ala Riggo.

[cwb3]

There are many fair points here. Really, I don't think Ernie is that hard to assess though:

>< He has a good eye for talent, but not maturity.
>< He can follow a plan, but not set a good one himself.
>< He can make good incremental trades.
>< He has no imagination when it comes to playing with cap numbers and salaries.

Add it all up and you have a solid but unimpressive GM. You can do worse. A LOT worse. But if you have the chance to get a better guy with vision and cap creativity, you do it.

^^^
This is about as good of a brief as I've seen in this thread.

Taking up the question of EG post-Abe, it seems clear he is following orders. Making decent incremental trades with the notion of generally getting younger and gaining future picks and cap space. I grade him a C for this present era, sort of treading water, squirrling away resources for some future. . .something. I get Ted's general vision, but I don't know if EG is the GM to find the best mix of smart picks, shrewd trades, and aggressive free agency signings, needed to get the Wizards truely into an EC title contender.

[hands11]

Our cap is close to maxed out next year

You're not wrong in saying this, but not quite right either. The cap situation for next season is pretty fluid right now. Let Yi, Thornton and Young depart, and the Wiz would have approximately $10.4 million in cap space (assuming the cap next season is the same as it is this year). That includes accounting for the 2 1st round picks as the 4th and 20th picks overall).

But, if the Wiz sign Young to even a fairly modest deal, they won't be able to offer a max contract to a free agent unless they can make other deals to unload salary. Looking at the 2011 free agent class (assuming the league even has free agent signings this offseason), it might be smarter to pass on signing Young and do another year of "Bring Out Your Dead" and then go free agent hunting in 2012.

They could do that or they could stay the course and target being where they want in two years and beyond, which is the actual plan.

That is two years more development of Wall, Nick, Booker, Seraphin, McGee and Crawford plus two years of two first round picks or the assets we get for them or for one of them ( this can play out several ways and it's why they have value). And after only one of those two years, they could buy out Lewis to gain cap space or trade his expiring for assets. As for Dray, that is the only big issue still on the table to me. Does he grow up or not and if not, when do you move him? His contract is more than reasonable for his size and talent level so moving shouldn't be a huge issue. He is 25 making 5.9M. He will be 26 making 6.4M. He is likely to get the summer to get back on track. The kid is averaging 16pts, 8 boards and 2 assists in what most would call a bad year for him coming off injury and getting injured plenty this year. That is far from a crap contract. He needs to get more focused and efficient but he isn't a bad contract.

Reading this team as cap struck in any way misreading the situation entirely.

Yi is not getting resigned for 5.4M So he is either gone or signed cheap. AT is likely gone. Dude can't stay healthy. But Nick is more than likely getting signed.

This organization is in good shape. Only way I can see someone seeing it differently is because they are bitter at the record and they are holding onto the lost 5th round pick. Forget that pick. Different situation. Different owner. That is behind them. Start counting from Nov 24, 2009 and more forward with this new owner and things are looking good for the future.

Biggest thing I see changing would be a coaching change. So you that and lots of question regarding the CBA. Those things will add more paint to the picture.

[nate33]

But, if the Wiz sign Young to even a fairly modest deal, they won't be able to offer a max contract to a free agent unless they can make other deals to unload salary. Looking at the 2011 free agent class (assuming the league even has free agent signings this offseason), it might be smarter to pass on signing Young and do another year of "Bring Out Your Dead" and then go free agent hunting in 2012.

Hmmm. What if EG channels his inner Pritchard and negotiates a Nick Collison style contract for Nick Young?

Let's say Young and the Wizards agree on a 5-year $25M contract. EG could pay Young $10M in his first season, and then pay him just $3.75M a year thereafter.

Meh, it's probably better to just sign him to a $5M a year deal and still use the other $5.4M for BOYD deals.

[mhd]

Nate, but won't other teams with cap space this off-season (Sacremento being a prime example) try and do BOYD trades as well? I'd rather extend NY at a Collison esque contract for sure.

The fact that he's matured so much enhances my faith in him.