[Camelo Thread Part 12] - Melo's list grows? pg. 50

[captain subtext]

Wizards supposedly want to trade Blatche right? (came out after his fight with McGee)


Den Rec: Blatche, Curry, Mason, Rautins, Walker, 1st rounder (from trading AR), 2nd rounder

NY Rec: Carmelo, Harrington

Was Rec: Chandler, Azabuike

So Denver gets rid of Harrington for ... an even dumber version of him who (Bonus:) even acts nuts outside the game. Makes sense.

[Gregory151]

How do you guys think Donnie would have handled this if he was Denver's GM? I often wonder that.. What do you guys think?

[AllanHoustonFan]

How do you guys think Donnie would have handled this if he was Denver's GM? I often wonder that.. What do you guys think?

He would have traded Melo while his value was still high in the offseason.

[Context]

PEOPLE! That's just it. There hasn't been any confirmation that Gallo is available and I don't believe he is...

[sp6r=underrated]

Lettuce be reality, the Nuggets would probably be better off just taking nothing and completely starting over than taking taking back Chandler or Gallo and putting them closer to no man's land. A 2012 team of Billups, AA, Galo/Chandler, PF(??), Nene probably is closer to an 8th seed in the West than it is to a top 5 lottery pick. They have said themselves, they are looking to rebuild. It might actually be better for both team to not work out a trade.

This is more in line with my thinking. Chandler costs way too much money and why would a rebuilding team want Gallo? For all those who keep thinking he is this valuable piece on the trading market explain why a three team trade didn't happen? If Gallo had so much trade value the knicks easily could have worked out a sub-trade for someone Denver wants. So you're left with Fields who plays the same position as their best young player.

With all that said it makes sense to me on a logical level of evaluating Denver's decision not to do the trade at the deadline. Why not finish the Melo run out by going to the playoffs and trying to get to the 2nd round and then do the **** sign and trade with NY?

Now, I'm in the camp that is ambivalent about Melo so that may be affecting my views of the situation.

[moocow007]

HOnestly, I think there are parts incompetence and bitterness going on here on the part of the Nuggets.

I think they really do not want to make it seem like they are bowing to Melo's wishes (and without getting equal value something that is IMPOSSIBLE to get from any team...even the Nets had they still been in it they just don't want to move him to NY).

And then I'm not really sure that they know what they want. As evidenced by the back and forth silliness that has gone on so far where they've pissed off about half a dozen teams, I think there's a lot of wheel spinning going on.

A vindictive new man in charge (Junior Kroenke) and an inexperienced GM (Ujiri) have been put into basically a no-win situation and they are floundering like a drowing man.

I agree with everything you said, but the point remains...What can New York possibly offer that will keep Ujiri his job? He's an inexperienced GM going into a situation where there is no way they come out as winners. So what can he possibly do? The wrong deal is getting him fired and he won't see another job for a longtime.

Yeah that's true. Honestly, it is a no win situation in Denver. I think clearer heads would have realized that from day one. The only way where this can be a win situation for the Nuggets if Carmelo decides to stay OR someone is stupid enough to blow Denver away with a "for keeps" trade in a rental scenario (i.e. the Clippers being moronic enough to trade Blake Griffin to Denver in a package for Melo being a prime example). But the reality is there is no winning for the Nuggets, the sooner they realize that the better they may be.

[falcindor]

Melo by his comments drove his price down. Probably enough for the Knicks to be parters in a deal but not at the cost Denver is thinking now. I believe the fans will backlash against Denver for not pulling the trigger with NJ. NJ was getting whooped in the deal without factoring in the petty details. Knicks should play hard to get. In a week they will call to play ball.

Melo will sign if we leave room financially for him. Knicks need to go out sure up center using our current pieces.

BTW people are talkibng about the CBA. If the NBA imposed a new HARD salary cap it probably would be HIGHER not lower than current soft cap.

[moocow007]

Lettuce be reality, the Nuggets would probably be better off just taking nothing and completely starting over than taking taking back Chandler or Gallo and putting them closer to no man's land. A 2012 team of Billups, AA, Galo/Chandler, PF(??), Nene probably is closer to an 8th seed in the West than it is to a top 5 lottery pick. They have said themselves, they are looking to rebuild. It might actually be better for both team to not work out a trade.

That would only be true if you believe that Gallinari and/or Chandler aren't positive assets. If they keep Melo and let him walk they will have ended up with NOTHING to show for one of the top 5-7 players in the NBA other than capspace in however many years. That is CRAP. Even if they decide to cajol Nene to opt out, what does that do for them? What FA is going to want to sign up in a mid-market, with a team that will be rebuilding and a braintrust that, after this deal, will inevitably be viewed as over their heads? Letting him go for nothing? No that isn't as valuable as getting the guys the Knicks have offered. Even if you don't like them, you can move them to teams that do and get assets...including picks.

[PrecociousNeoph]

PEOPLE! That's just it. There hasn't been any confirmation that Gallo is available and I don't believe he is...

gallinari is definitely available for melo... everyone on this team except for amare is, and yes that includes Chandler, fields and Felton

[Context]

Lettuce be reality, the Nuggets would probably be better off just taking nothing and completely starting over than taking taking back Chandler or Gallo and putting them closer to no man's land. A 2012 team of Billups, AA, Galo/Chandler, PF(??), Nene probably is closer to an 8th seed in the West than it is to a top 5 lottery pick. They have said themselves, they are looking to rebuild. It might actually be better for both team to not work out a trade.

This is more in line with my thinking. Chandler costs way too much money and why would a rebuilding team want Gallo? For all those who keep thinking he is this valuable piece on the trading market explain why a three team trade didn't happen? If Gallo had so much trade value the knicks easily could have worked out a sub-trade for someone Denver wants. So you're left with Fields who plays the same position as their best young player.

With all that said it makes sense to me on a logical level of evaluating Denver's decision not to do the trade at the deadline. Why not finish the Melo run out by going to the playoffs and trying to get to the 2nd round and then do the **** sign and trade with NY?

Now, I'm in the camp that is ambivalent about Melo so that may be affecting my views of the situation.

I've been trying to! Because I believe Gallo is not on the trading block...

[sp6r=underrated]

Lettuce be reality, the Nuggets would probably be better off just taking nothing and completely starting over than taking taking back Chandler or Gallo and putting them closer to no man's land. A 2012 team of Billups, AA, Galo/Chandler, PF(??), Nene probably is closer to an 8th seed in the West than it is to a top 5 lottery pick. They have said themselves, they are looking to rebuild. It might actually be better for both team to not work out a trade.

That would only be true if you believe that Gallinari and/or Chandler aren't positive assets. If they keep Melo and let him walk they will have ended up with NOTHING to show for one of the top 5-7 players in the NBA other than capspace in however many years. That is CRAP. Even if they decide to cajol Nene to opt out, what does that do for them? What FA is going to want to sign up in a mid-market, with a team that will be rebuilding and a braintrust that, after this deal, will inevitably be viewed as over their heads? Letting him go for nothing? No that isn't as valuable as getting the guys the Knicks have offered. Even if you don't like them, you can move them to teams that do and get assets.

Again, if they were so valuable WE would have moved them by now to acquire the pieces for Melo.

[Context]

PEOPLE! That's just it. There hasn't been any confirmation that Gallo is available and I don't believe he is...

gallinari is definitely available for melo... everyone on this team except for amare is, and yes that includes Chandler, fields and Felton

That's your opinion. I think Donnie is very high on Gallo and this is why I believe that:

In 1999, Nowitzki was a gawky, 20-year-old rookie from Germany, trying to simultaneously acclimate to the United States and save the beleaguered Dallas Mavericks.

He shot poorly, scored infrequently and played so little defense that critics mockingly called him “irk” — as in, no D. Mavericks fans booed him mercilessly. But by 2002, Nowitzki was an All-Star, and by 2007, he was the N.B.A.’s most valuable player.

The Knicks have quiet hopes that Gallinari will follow a roughly similar path, and that Nowitzki is the model for what Gallinari could be: a tall, rangy power forward with a brilliant shooting stroke, a sharp basketball mind and an underrated grit.

It is dangerous to compare a second-year player to a perennial All-Star. But Nowitzki did not flinch at the analogy. And he offered an encouraging endorsement in advance of the Knicks’ surprising 128-94 victory over the Mavericks on Saturday night that ended Dallas’s 13-game winning streak.

“I think he’s way ahead of my curve,” Nowitzki said of Gallinari. “When I was 20, I was struggling so much. I watched a bunch of games this year, and he looks confident out there. He’s knocking big shots down for them. I think he worked on his drive some, he’s finishing in the paint some, and they’re looking for him to get big baskets. So, definitely ahead of me.”

“You really got to give those guys two years before you really judge them,” said Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks president, who, along with his father, Don Nelson, drafted Nowitzki. “A guy coming from overseas, unless he’s played in the states extensively, it’s a little bit different game. There’s a different rhythm, the athleticism takes a period of time to get used to.”

Nelson added, “It’s a process of really learning everything an American learns from the time he’s in grade school all the way up through college, and understanding those nuances.”

“The biggest thing for those guys is, you’re going to get your block knocked off a lot,” Nelson said. “And you have got to have great resolve. And I think that’s the difference in the guys that make it or not. From what I’ve seen, Gallinari definitely has that. He’s got a huge heart.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/sport ... ricks.html

STAT's opinion on Gallo:
“He reminds me of Dirk [Nowitzki] a lot…He’s at that same level as Dirk at the same age if not better.”

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... -nowitzki/

Not trying to make this thread about Gallo. Just presenting info that supports why I believe Donnie doesn't even have Gallo on the trading block for Melo at this point.

[moocow007]

Lettuce be reality, the Nuggets would probably be better off just taking nothing and completely starting over than taking taking back Chandler or Gallo and putting them closer to no man's land. A 2012 team of Billups, AA, Galo/Chandler, PF(??), Nene probably is closer to an 8th seed in the West than it is to a top 5 lottery pick. They have said themselves, they are looking to rebuild. It might actually be better for both team to not work out a trade.

This is more in line with my thinking. Chandler costs way too much money and why would a rebuilding team want Gallo? For all those who keep thinking he is this valuable piece on the trading market explain why a three team trade didn't happen? If Gallo had so much trade value the knicks easily could have worked out a sub-trade for someone Denver wants. So you're left with Fields who plays the same position as their best young player.

With all that said it makes sense to me on a logical level of evaluating Denver's decision not to do the trade at the deadline. Why not finish the Melo run out by going to the playoffs and trying to get to the 2nd round and then do the **** sign and trade with NY?

Now, I'm in the camp that is ambivalent about Melo so that may be affecting my views of the situation.

Chandler costs too much money? How do we know what he will get to decide that he'll cost too much money? He could. He could not. Will depend on CBA. What teams have what cap and how they view him. It's not an automatica that he costs too much.

As far as rebuilding team goes. Chandler is 26 years old. Right in the age range of a rebuilding team. He's improved every single year and he has shown he can produce. He isn't Carmelo or Durant but let's not play him out to be crap (like we've apparently already mistakenly played Anthony Randolph to be crap).

Doen't mean that Denver likes him...but doesn't mean he has no value. Trades don't stop after Melo is moved. They keep going. The Knicks got what they felt was great value for David Lee who was in the same exact situation that Chandler will be in. Denver can do the same with Chandler (spinning him in a sign-and-trade for something that they might actually like).

As far as why would a rebuilding team want Gallinari? Huh? He's 23 years old. He's talented. He's marketable to various aspects of the fanbase and he's still on his rookie contract. Dude...not every rookie, young player or draftee (or potential player to be drafted) can be Kevin Durant. And every rookie eventually has to be paid. Honestly, people are getting carried away with this "getting close to RFA" craziness.

And if Gallinari isn't someone they like, some other team will like him and give you the assets that you might like.

Then why hasn't Walsh done it already? Why should he do anything unless and until he can get Denver to be actually willing to deal with them? So what you want Walsh to do is to go ahead and dismantle his team that had been 22-17 and on a roll for the chance that MAYBE he would konw what Denver woudl like so that MAYBE Denver would eventually deal with NY?

Come on.

[Context]

Moo, please give me your opinion on my last post-thanks

[moocow007]

Lettuce be reality, the Nuggets would probably be better off just taking nothing and completely starting over than taking taking back Chandler or Gallo and putting them closer to no man's land. A 2012 team of Billups, AA, Galo/Chandler, PF(??), Nene probably is closer to an 8th seed in the West than it is to a top 5 lottery pick. They have said themselves, they are looking to rebuild. It might actually be better for both team to not work out a trade.

That would only be true if you believe that Gallinari and/or Chandler aren't positive assets. If they keep Melo and let him walk they will have ended up with NOTHING to show for one of the top 5-7 players in the NBA other than capspace in however many years. That is CRAP. Even if they decide to cajol Nene to opt out, what does that do for them? What FA is going to want to sign up in a mid-market, with a team that will be rebuilding and a braintrust that, after this deal, will inevitably be viewed as over their heads? Letting him go for nothing? No that isn't as valuable as getting the guys the Knicks have offered. Even if you don't like them, you can move them to teams that do and get assets.

Again, if they were so valuable WE would have moved them by now to acquire the pieces for Melo.

See my other reply to you. Think.

[moocow007]

Moo, please give me your opinion on my last post-thanks

I gotta run. The wife is nagging the heck out of me to get out from my moms. I'll give you my opinion when I get back home.

[Context]

Moo, please give me your opinion on my last post-thanks

I gotta run. The wife is nagging the heck out of me to get out from my moms. I'll give you my opinion when I get back home.

Ok...see you then...

[TrueWarrior]

“You really got to give those guys two years before you really judge them,” said Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks president, who, along with his father, Don Nelson, drafted Nowitzki. “A guy coming from overseas, unless he’s played in the states extensively, it’s a little bit different game. There’s a different rhythm, the athleticism takes a period of time to get used to.”

Nelson added, “It’s a process of really learning everything an American learns from the time he’s in grade school all the way up through college, and understanding those nuances.”

“The biggest thing for those guys is, you’re going to get your block knocked off a lot,” Nelson said. “And you have got to have great resolve. And I think that’s the difference in the guys that make it or not. From what I’ve seen, Gallinari definitely has that. He’s got a huge heart.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/sport ... ricks.html

This is the what some ignoramuses brush off. The American and overseas games are vastly different. Its like playing one way under one set of rules your whole life and then playing a totally different way under a new set of rules the next day. Sh*t takes time. What I always liked about Gallo was that he is tough. He'll take it to the hoop and wont back down in general. We're seeing more and more that he actually prefers to drive, but this stupid system encourages him to hoist treys.

Basically I really think by next season Gallo is going to be one helluva player, if not by the end of this one. You can see him slowly getting more comfortable. Its just a matter of bringing it all together.

To put it BLUNTLY.... I think Donnie values Gallo more than Chandler, Fields, or Randolph. If we do trade him it would be as a last resort type of thing.

[sp6r=underrated]

Chandler costs too much money? How do we know what he will get to decide that he'll cost too much money? He could. He could not. Will depend on CBA. What teams have what cap and how they view him. It's not an automatica that he costs too much.

As far as rebuilding team goes. Chandler is 26 years old. Right in the age range of a rebuilding team. He's improved every single year and he has shown he can produce. He isn't Carmelo or Durant but let's not play him out to be crap (like we've apparently already mistakenly played Anthony Randolph to be crap).

Doen't mean that Denver likes him...but doesn't mean he has no value. Trades don't stop after Melo is moved. They keep going. The Knicks got what they felt was great value for David Lee who was in the same exact situation that Chandler will be in. Denver can do the same with Chandler (spinning him in a sign-and-trade for something that they might actually like).

As far as why would a rebuilding team want Gallinari? Huh? He's 23 years old. He's talented. He's marketable to various aspects of the fanbase and he's still on his rookie contract. Dude...not every rookie, young player or draftee (or potential player to be drafted) can be Kevin Durant. And every rookie eventually has to be paid. Honestly, people are getting carried away with this "getting close to RFA" craziness.

And if Gallinari isn't someone they like, some other team will like him and give you the assets that you might like.

Then why hasn't Walsh done it already? Why should he do anything unless and until he can get Denver to be actually willing to deal with them? So what you want Walsh to do is to go ahead and dismantle his team that had been 22-17 and on a roll for the chance that MAYBE he would konw what Denver woudl like so that MAYBE Denver would eventually deal with NY?

Come on.

1. On Chandler. NBA players peak at about 25-27. Chandler has fired his agent and is gunning for 8-10 million. That makes him too old and too expensive for a team that will be rebuilding the next 2-3 years.

2. How is Gallo marketable? Being white helps, but an above average white d00d on a 30 win team isn't putting asses in seats. That leaves his value as a player and one of the few things all reports have agreed on (beyond Melo's desire to play in NY) is they don't like Gallo. You may think they're wrong but that is their opinion.

3. I would be stunned if it turns out Denver hasn't given NY a list of young players in the league that they like. Do you really think Walsh hasn't asked some variation of the following question after Denver rejected Gallo/Chandler: "If you don't like Gallo/Chandler could you give us a list of players you do like so we could try to work out a three team trade or sub-trade?" I'm sure that question has been asked and answered by Denver. The problem probably is neither Gallo and/or Chandler can bring them over.

If I was Denver and given the choice between players they don't like (which I think isn't BS. I don't think they like Gallo and don't want to pay Chandler) and don't think they can use in trades or trying to call Melo's bluff and hoping the CBA breaks their way, I would go with the latter.

To me it looks like Denver (as much as any person or organization) is behaving like a rational actor.

[Context]

“You really got to give those guys two years before you really judge them,” said Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks president, who, along with his father, Don Nelson, drafted Nowitzki. “A guy coming from overseas, unless he’s played in the states extensively, it’s a little bit different game. There’s a different rhythm, the athleticism takes a period of time to get used to.”

Nelson added, “It’s a process of really learning everything an American learns from the time he’s in grade school all the way up through college, and understanding those nuances.”

“The biggest thing for those guys is, you’re going to get your block knocked off a lot,” Nelson said. “And you have got to have great resolve. And I think that’s the difference in the guys that make it or not. From what I’ve seen, Gallinari definitely has that. He’s got a huge heart.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/sport ... ricks.html

This is the what some ignoramuses brush off. The American and overseas games are vastly different. Its like playing one way under one set of rules your whole life and then playing a totally different way under a new set of rules the next day. Sh*t takes time. What I always liked about Gallo was that he is tough. He'll take it to the hoop and wont back down in general. We're seeing more and more that he actually prefers to drive, but this stupid system encourages him to hoist treys.

Basically I really think by next season Gallo is going to be one helluva player, if not by the end of this one. You can see him slowly getting more comfortable. Its just a matter of bringing it all together.

To put it BLUNTLY.... I think Donnie values Gallo more than Chandler, Fields, or Randolph. If we do trade him it would be as a last resort type of thing.

Exactly Warrior! Gallo is not on the block and at this point(with Melo willing to wait if he has to -to become a Knick) why should he be? All of this talk of Gallo doesn't have value is based on a false pretense that he's available.

Btw, I also added a quote from STAT on Gallo in that post:

STAT's opinion on Gallo:
“He reminds me of Dirk [Nowitzki] a lot…He’s at that same level as Dirk at the same age if not better.”

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... -nowitzki/


ON EDIT:

I agree with your comment on D'antoni's system and it not being good for Gallo's development...