The Tank Debate Thread

Post #201 » by **Double Helix** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:48 pm

I would have loved to add Paul Millsap as well. I never expected he would only sign a 2 year deal at that dollar amount. That would have been ideal for us. We could have then tried to add to it through trades, and see how far we could take it until 2016 when all those contracts expired. We would have had tons of flexibility and we would have ended the losing season streak and had a couple fun years of basketball. That would have made us all more open to a rebuild.

By 2016 we would have then had over 30 million dollars in expirings and we would have been in excellent position to make a great decision on what to do next from that point in time.

Are there any other players of Millsap's caliber out there that we could get for Demar Derozan? I guess it depends on how good Demar looks this year. If his 3 ball develops then the interest league-wide will increase.

Reignman · Post #202 » by **Reignman** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:54 pm

CoachJReturns wrote:I appreciate the fact someone tried to start a non-tank related thread, even though I am pro tank. That being said, it may be impossible to talk about this team without discussing tanking, or at the very least making major changes to the current roster because as it stands it is a mediocre one. I do like some of our players. Rudy Gay was my choice for our number 1 pick once upon a time and I liked Lowry's tenacious defense since college. Still, Masai should be willing to let anyone go if a good offer comes along. The Detroit offer was a joke. If they have legitimate interest in Rudy they need to throw us a pick and a prospect. Sorry to derail your thread, as we all have, but this is a borderline playoff team. We all know this, it's a 7-11 group and most of us want more than that. How we get there is the only question. Do we want to blow it up and tank for a strong draft class, or stockpile draft picks and prospects for future moves ie. trading for an all-star, or higher draft pick. We're all on the same side. Just different strokes for different folks.

It's actually really easy to talk about this team without discussing tanking. Once you guys leave this thread we might be able to get a discussion going.

SkywalkerAC · Post #203 » by **SkywalkerAC** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:56 pm

We don't have much of a need at PF. I don't get the hard-on for Millsap.

TheRealBlizzy · Post #204 » by **TheRealBlizzy** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Reignman wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:I appreciate the fact someone tried to start a non-tank related thread, even though I am pro tank. That being said, it may be impossible to talk about this team without discussing tanking, or at the very least making major changes to the current roster because as it stands it is a mediocre one. I do like some of our players. Rudy Gay was my choice for our number 1 pick once upon a time and I liked Lowry's tenacious defense since college. Still, Masai should be willing to let anyone go if a good offer comes along. The Detroit offer was a joke. If they have legitimate interest in Rudy they need to throw us a pick and a prospect. Sorry to derail your thread, as we all have, but this is a borderline playoff team. We all know this, it's a 7-11 group and most of us want more than that. How we get there is the only question. Do we want to blow it up and tank for a strong draft class, or stockpile draft picks and prospects for future moves ie. trading for an all-star, or higher draft pick. We're all on the same side. Just different strokes for different folks.

It's actually really easy to talk about this team without discussing tanking. Once you guys leave this thread we might be able to get a discussion going.

Get on board with DH, Trade DD for Paul Millsap, who doesn't provide much stat wise over amir anyway, then win a championship!

Reignman · Post #205 » by **Reignman** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Double Helix wrote:I would have loved to add Paul Millsap as well. I never expected he would only sign a 2 year deal at that dollar amount. That would have been ideal for us. We could have then tried to add to it through trades, and see how far we could take it until 2016 when all those contracts expired. We would have had tons of flexibility and we would have ended the losing season streak and had a couple fun years of basketball. That would have made us all more open to a rebuild.

By 2016 we would have then had over 30 million dollars in expirings and we would have been in excellent position to make a great decision on what to do next from that point in time.

Are there any other players of Millsap's caliber out there that we could get for Demar Derozan? I guess it depends on how good Demar looks this year. If his 3 ball develops then the interest league-wide will increase.

TBH, if Demar's 3 ball starts dropping he's not going anywhere so you guys should brace yourselves.

We'd then have a young above average SG on a reasonable deal with his only flaw being on the defensive side where he put up an OppPER of 10.8. As you've pointed out in the past, if Demar hits 1.5 3's at 33% he's roughly a 17 PER .56 TS% player.

It would take a lot more than a Milsap-type to get Demar if he were doing that.

ciueli · Post #206 » by **ciueli** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:58 pm

sanity wrote:
Bosh was the 2nd best player this franchise ever had, and is a player better than anyone on our current roster---and is responsible for the team's only playoffs appearances in the last 10 years. I fail to see the issue with drafting outside of the top-3 in the 2003 draft or why it means drafting outside of Wiggins or Parker in this draft won't be worthwhile.

Look at videos of Bosh, Wade, James or Anthony in their college years and look at some of the videos of these players. Did Bosh look as good as Randle?

Wiggins and Randle are top 2, as I said. I am not impressed with Parker - he has conditioning issues, and he is not a great athlete. There will be other good players at 3, 4, 5 no doubt, but I don't think they will all be multi-time All-Stars. My issue is with potentially gutting our team, missing a top 2 pick, then sucking for the next 3+ years like when we drafted Chris Bosh.

StMikes31 · Post #207 » by **StMikes31** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:58 pm

Double Helix wrote:I would have loved to add Paul Millsap as well. I never expected he would only sign a 2 year deal at that dollar amount. That would have been ideal for us. We could have then tried to add to it through trades, and see how far we could take it.

By 2016 we would have then had over 30 million dollars in expirings and we would have been in excellent position to make a great decision on what to do next from that point in time.

Are there any other players of Millsap's caliber out there that we could get for Demar Derozan? I guess it depends on how good Demar looks this year. If his 3 ball develops then the interest league-wide will increase.

By 2016, we should be entering our 3rd year in the building process and possibly aiming for the playoffs that year to be a player and not trying to figure out a new plan. That is just poor planning. Masai has 5 years guys, he's not going to waste 2 years just for the hell of it, like come on.

The sad thing is we aren't LA, MIA, NY as of right now and even if we had that crap load of cap space, we wouldn't be able to use it because no studs want to come and play here. It's not like we have a great tradition from winning, we are actually the total opposite of that.

The question isn't will they re-build, it's when are they gonna do it and pull the trigger from now until the deadline.

akakalakin · Post #208 » by **akakalakin** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:58 pm

would the Kleiza amnesty enable us to pickup a half decent backup pg?

Reignman · Post #209 » by **Reignman** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:01 pm

TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Reignman wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:I appreciate the fact someone tried to start a non-tank related thread, even though I am pro tank. That being said, it may be impossible to talk about this team without discussing tanking, or at the very least making major changes to the current roster because as it stands it is a mediocre one. I do like some of our players. Rudy Gay was my choice for our number 1 pick once upon a time and I liked Lowry's tenacious defense since college. Still, Masai should be willing to let anyone go if a good offer comes along. The Detroit offer was a joke. If they have legitimate interest in Rudy they need to throw us a pick and a prospect. Sorry to derail your thread, as we all have, but this is a borderline playoff team. We all know this, it's a 7-11 group and most of us want more than that. How we get there is the only question. Do we want to blow it up and tank for a strong draft class, or stockpile draft picks and prospects for future moves ie. trading for an all-star, or higher draft pick. We're all on the same side. Just different strokes for different folks.

It's actually really easy to talk about this team without discussing tanking. Once you guys leave this thread we might be able to get a discussion going.

Get on board with DH, Trade DD for Paul Millsap, who doesn't provide much stat wise over amir anyway, then win a championship!

Quit your job and dump all your money into lottery tickets, you'll be a surefire millionaire. Ballin!

Reignman · Post #210 » by **Reignman** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:03 pm

Just hold tight, if Teague bounces and they replace him with Jennings, ATL will quickly realize they are a tanking team and may make a move at the deadline.

That's when you move in for a guy like Horford. And yes, I would give up Demar (+ a lot more) for Horford.

TheRealBlizzy · Post #211 » by **TheRealBlizzy** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:03 pm

Reignman wrote:
TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Reignman wrote:
It's actually really easy to talk about this team without discussing tanking. Once you guys leave this thread we might be able to get a discussion going.

Get on board with DH, Trade DD for Paul Millsap, who doesn't provide much stat wise over amir anyway, then win a championship!

Quit your job and dump all your money into lottery tickets, you'll be a surefire millionaire. Ballin!

If the odds of winning the weekly 6/49 jackpot were 25%, you must be a **** idiot not to buy a ticket every week. Hell, every month doing that I would be making multi-millions. What do you earn?

Post #212 » by **Double Helix** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:05 pm

The reason I'm okay with adding an analytics stud like Millsap (who's also a RAPM leader) is so that our 4/5 rotation would become terrific. I like Amir as a starter but having him backup both the 4 and 5 would be a luxury.

TheRealBlizzy · Post #213 » by **TheRealBlizzy** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:07 pm

Double Helix wrote:The reason I'm okay with adding an analytics stud like Millsap (who's also a RAPM leader) is so that our 4/5 rotation would become terrific. I like Amir as a starter but having him backup both the 4 and 5 would be a luxury.

yeah then you have a luxury at the 4/5, that still isn't the best in the league, while having no 2 guard (ross starter lol).

akakalakin · Post #214 » by **akakalakin** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:10 pm

TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Double Helix wrote:The reason I'm okay with adding an analytics stud like Millsap (who's also a RAPM leader) is so that our 4/5 rotation would become terrific. I like Amir as a starter but having him backup both the 4 and 5 would be a luxury.

yeah then you have a luxury at the 4/5, that still isn't the best in the league, while having no 2 guard (ross starter lol).

agree Demar must bring us a two, unless part of a larger deal

Ross is a tanker

CoachJReturns · Post #215 » by **CoachJReturns** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:12 pm

TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Reignman wrote:
TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Get on board with DH, Trade DD for Paul Millsap, who doesn't provide much stat wise over amir anyway, then win a championship!

Quit your job and dump all your money into lottery tickets, you'll be a surefire millionaire. Ballin!

If the odds of winning the weekly 6/49 jackpot were 25%, you must be a **** idiot not to buy a ticket every week. Hell, every month doing that I would be making multi-millions. What do you earn?

Ok, that made me smile.

Post #216 » by **Double Helix** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:13 pm

So what other targets are out there that Masai could be looking at?

Potential bigs to target:

Kevin Love?
Pau Gasol?

Potential SGs to target:

Marcus Thornton?
Lou Williams?
Eric Gordon?

Reignman · Post #217 » by **Reignman** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:18 pm

TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Reignman wrote:
TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Get on board with DH, Trade DD for Paul Millsap, who doesn't provide much stat wise over amir anyway, then win a championship!

Quit your job and dump all your money into lottery tickets, you'll be a surefire millionaire. Ballin!

If the odds of winning the weekly 6/49 jackpot were 25%, you must be a **** idiot not to buy a ticket every week. Hell, every month doing that I would be making multi-millions. What do you earn?

Enough to not throw away everything I have for a 25% chance at the lottery.

Edit: And to be clear, you can't even guarantee that 25% chance because there'll be other losers who think the same thing and they'll dump their houses, cars, wives and kids as well thinking about that 25% chance. Next thing you know, your true chance is 10% or maybe even less.

SkywalkerAC · Post #218 » by **SkywalkerAC** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:19 pm

I'm far from convinced that Masai is dead set on trading Demar. I would also be surprised if he goes anywhere close to "all-in" this season. I'm guessing he stands pat if the team is playing well, or takes a step (or 4) back if we struggle.

I have no desire to kick Amir out of the starting lineup or get Demar off this team at this point and it seems that Masai feels pretty much the same.

TheRealBlizzy · Post #219 » by **TheRealBlizzy** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:20 pm

Reignman wrote:
TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Reignman wrote:
Quit your job and dump all your money into lottery tickets, you'll be a surefire millionaire. Ballin!

If the odds of winning the weekly 6/49 jackpot were 25%, you must be a **** idiot not to buy a ticket every week. Hell, every month doing that I would be making multi-millions. What do you earn?

Enough to not throw away everything I have for a 25% chance at the lottery.

odds with a lottery being once a week, you would win $1-75 million dollars per month if we wan't to use your little analogy you keep spitting out, so unless you make over a million a month, my method produces more income. AND I DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING! LEGIT!

so just like in real life, you would rather settle for mediocre, and the safety of knowing you will always be mediocre, rather then possibly being broke for a week to be the richest man on the planet.

good luck with things!

SkywalkerAC · Post #220 » by **SkywalkerAC** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:21 pm

TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Reignman wrote:
TheRealBlizzy wrote:
Get on board with DH, Trade DD for Paul Millsap, who doesn't provide much stat wise over amir anyway, then win a championship!

Quit your job and dump all your money into lottery tickets, you'll be a surefire millionaire. Ballin!

If the odds of winning the weekly 6/49 jackpot were 25%, you must be a **** idiot not to buy a ticket every week. Hell, every month doing that I would be making multi-millions. What do you earn?

that's the odds of getting the 1st pick with the worst record, don't forget to multiply it by the chances we actually achieve the worst record in the league. that's why I was pulling for a season-long lockout, as it would have guaranteed us our odds (from the year before or however they'd have done it). From where we're at, odds of landing the top pick are not anywhere close to 1.

Which path do you support for 2013-14?