Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[tontoz]

Kind of interesting to look at Nov vs Dec. Granted we've played only 6 games in December but maybe it is the start of a trend. Looks like he is trying to shoot less/pass more and giving better effort on the glass.

FGAs
Nov 15.2
Dec 13.7

TS
Nov 50%
Dec 57%

Rebounds
Nov 4.4
Dec 6.3

Assists
Nov 8.7
Dec 13.8

Turnovers
Nov 3.7
Dec 4.5

[Dat2U]

Wall is certainly capable of being a top 5 player in the league. He's not there yet, though.

Agreed. Compelled to add that he is often the best player on the court when the
Wizards play. And we win a lot of those games.

Maybe I am being pessimistic, but I think getting the TOs down, developing a floater, finishing better AND developing a consistent jumper (mid-range and 3) and learning to take better shots are what is required to get to a top 5 level. And I think that would be really hard for him to accomplish.

All he needs IMO, to just stop waisting so many possessions on long 2s & careless TOs. Nivek already pointed out he's 2nd in the league in "good plays only" to Steph Curry so he really needs to just cut down on the bad shots & mistakes to be an elite player.

[dckingsfan]

Agreed. Compelled to add that he is often the best player on the court when the
Wizards play. And we win a lot of those games.

Maybe I am being pessimistic, but I think getting the TOs down, developing a floater, finishing better AND developing a consistent jumper (mid-range and 3) and learning to take better shots are what is required to get to a top 5 level. And I think that would be really hard for him to accomplish.

All he needs IMO, to just stop waisting so many possessions on long 2s & careless TOs. Nivek already pointed out he's 2nd in the league in "good plays only" to Steph Curry so he really needs to just cut down on the bad shots & mistakes to be an elite player.

I think some of the "bad plays" are the poor finishes at the rim, the failed floaters and the long 2s. With regards to the long 2s, he isn't going to take more 3s until he develops more confidence (shooting .321 now). And yes to the silly TOs.

I think he has to do all of that to be a top 5 player. Remember, he has to get by the likes of Anthony Davis, Lebron James, Steph Curry, Chris Paul and Kevin Durant.

He does what you say and he is a top 3 PG in the L.

[tontoz]

32% from 3 >> 35% on long 2s

His form on catch and shoot 3s looks better than his form on pullup Js. Strange that he has more confidence in the pullup when he bricks so many.

He can take 5 threes a game for all i care. Just get rid of the long 2s before anyone else touches the ball.

[Nivek]

Agreed. Compelled to add that he is often the best player on the court when the
Wizards play. And we win a lot of those games.

Maybe I am being pessimistic, but I think getting the TOs down, developing a floater, finishing better AND developing a consistent jumper (mid-range and 3) and learning to take better shots are what is required to get to a top 5 level. And I think that would be really hard for him to accomplish.

All he needs IMO, to just stop waisting so many possessions on long 2s & careless TOs. Nivek already pointed out he's 2nd in the league in "good plays only" to Steph Curry so he really needs to just cut down on the bad shots & mistakes to be an elite player.

That was last year, and it was focused on PGs. Gimme a few minutes and I'll see what I can find for this year.

[Nivek]

So, here's the top 10 in total "Only Good Stuff" -- fgm + 0.5 x ftm + reb + ast + stl + blk

1. Anthony Davis -- 623
2. James Harden -- 579
3. John Wall -- 562
4. Lebron James -- 539
5. Chris Paul -- 527
6. Stephen Curry -- 523
7. Kobe Bryant -- 515
8. Lamarcus Aldridge -- 512
9. Blake Griffin -- 510
10. Kyle Lowry -- 505

And, the top 10 in total "Only Bad Stuff" -- fgx + 0.5 x ftx + turnovers + personal fouls

1. Kobe Bryant -- 437
2. James Harden -- 380
3. Monta Ellis -- 354
4. Josh Smith -- 342
5. Carmelo Anthony -- 329
6. John Wall -- 327
7. Lebron James -- 319
8. Blake Griffin -- 318
9. Kyle Lowry -- 314
10. Tyreke Evans -- 313

And, let's call this one Unweighted Stuff Differential, which is OGS - OBS. I'm using "unweighted" here because I'm not applying any kind of weighting based on the extent to which these categories contribute to winning or losing.

1. Anthony Davis -- 378
2. Tyson Chandler -- 343
3. DeAndre Jordan -- 320
4. Chris Paul -- 302
5. Tim Duncan -- 253
6. Marc Gasol -- 249
7. Pau Gasol -- 249
8. Rajon Rondo -- 235
9. John Wall -- 235
10. Stephen Curry -- 226

I suppose I could post per48 OGS and OBS, but I suspect we've all had enough of this BS.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Through 21 games, here is where Wall ranks among point guards:

-1st in spg (2.14)
-1st in double-doubles (13)
-2nd in bpg (0.67)
-2nd in apg (10.4)
-5th in ppg (18.0)
-5th in mpg (35.7)
-6th in rebounds (4.9)
-13th in fg% (44.1)
-31st in ft% (77.0)

Those are some pretty impressive numbers and that doesn't even account for his defense. What is exciting to see is that he is climbing up the fg% ladder in recent weeks. He need's to get his TO's down, get his free throw shooting to at least somewhere in the eighties range, and make treys at least at the clip to where he was last year, but other than those areas, statistically, it's hard to have any complaints.

[Nivek]

Well, a little more BS...

The Wizards so far sorted by Unweighted Stuff Differential

Code: Select all

Player          G       MP      OGS     OBS     USD
John Wall       21      750     562     327     235
Marcin Gortat   21      643     398     187     211
Kris Humphries  20      425     251     149     102
Paul Pierce     21      572     301     206     95
Otto Porter     20      420     165     92      73
Andre Miller    21      267     143     74      70
Rasual Butler   17      355     148     87      61
Nene Hilario    14      353     195     136     59
Kevin Seraphin  20      302     161     123     38
Garrett Temple  18      343     132     101     31
Drew Gooden     13      223     99      82      17
Bradley Beal    12      384     158     150     9
DeJuan Blair    6       34      10      15      -5
Glen Rice       5       43      11      26      -15


[tontoz]

Through 21 games, here is where Wall ranks among point guards:

-1st in spg (2.14)
-1st in double-doubles (13)
-2nd in bpg (0.67)
-2nd in apg (10.4)
-5th in ppg (18.0)
-5th in mpg (35.7)
-6th in rebounds (4.9)
-13th in fg% (44.1)
-31st in ft% (77.0)

Those are some pretty impressive numbers and that doesn't even account for his defense. What is exciting to see is that he is climbing up the fg% ladder in recent weeks. He need's to get his TO's down, get his free throw shooting to at least somewhere in the eighties range, and make treys at least at the clip to where he was last year, but other than those areas, statistically, it's hard to have any complaints.

FG% is a worthless stat in the 3 point era. It basically penalizes players for taking 3s, even if they shoot them well.

Wall's FG% is almost identical to Lillards. But Lillard takes almost 7 threes a game. Lillard's TS is 6.5% better than Walls.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Through 21 games, here is where Wall ranks among point guards:

-1st in spg (2.14)
-1st in double-doubles (13)
-2nd in bpg (0.67)
-2nd in apg (10.4)
-5th in ppg (18.0)
-5th in mpg (35.7)
-6th in rebounds (4.9)
-13th in fg% (44.1)
-31st in ft% (77.0)

Those are some pretty impressive numbers and that doesn't even account for his defense. What is exciting to see is that he is climbing up the fg% ladder in recent weeks. He need's to get his TO's down, get his free throw shooting to at least somewhere in the eighties range, and make treys at least at the clip to where he was last year, but other than those areas, statistically, it's hard to have any complaints.

FG% is a worthless stat in the 3 point era. It basically penalizes players for taking 3s, even if they shoot them well.

Wall's FG% is almost identical to Lillards. But Lillard takes almost 7 threes a game. Lillard's TS is almost 6.5% better than Walls.

God your a Wall hater. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, and more bitching.

[tontoz]

[

God your a Wall hater. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, and more bitching.

I am just pointing out the obvious. It isn't my problem that you can't grasp it.

I defended Wall on here for years when CCJ was posting one Wall trade scenario after another. But i am also a realist.

[Nivek]

Per game stats in general aren't worth a whole lot. Per minute stats are good; per possession stats are even better.

Using the per 100 possessions numbers from my spreadsheet, here's where Wall ranked among the 64 PGs (as designated by basketball-reference) with at least 150 minutes (though Sunday games):

- efg -- 44th (tie)
- FGA -- 20th
- true shooting attempts -- 14th
- reb -- 15th
- ast -- 4th
- stl -- 5th
- blk -- 2nd
- tov -- 60th
- pts -- 18th

[tontoz]

Per game stats in general aren't worth a whole lot. Per minute stats are good; per possession stats are even better.

Using the per 100 possessions numbers from my spreadsheet, here's where Wall ranked among the 64 PGs (as designated by basketball-reference) with at least 150 minutes (though Sunday games):

- efg -- 44th (tie)
- FGA -- 20th
- true shooting attempts -- 14th
- reb -- 15th
- ast -- 4th
- stl -- 5th
- blk -- 2nd
- tov -- 60th
- pts -- 18th

Haters gonna hate

[dckingsfan]

Well, a little more BS...

The Wizards so far sorted by Unweighted Stuff Differential

Code: Select all

Player          G       MP      OGS     OBS     USD
John Wall       21      750     562     327     235
Marcin Gortat   21      643     398     187     211
Kris Humphries  20      425     251     149     102
Paul Pierce     21      572     301     206     95
Otto Porter     20      420     165     92      73
Andre Miller    21      267     143     74      70
Rasual Butler   17      355     148     87      61
Nene Hilario    14      353     195     136     59
Kevin Seraphin  20      302     161     123     38
Garrett Temple  18      343     132     101     31
Drew Gooden     13      223     99      82      17
Bradley Beal    12      384     158     150     9
DeJuan Blair    6       34      10      15      -5
Glen Rice       5       43      11      26      -15


Man, this is going to start the trade Bradley Beal thread - yikes.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

[

God your a Wall hater. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, and more bitching.

I am just pointing out the obvious. It isn't my problem that you can't grasp it.

I defended Wall on here for years when CCJ was posting one Wall trade scenario after another. But i am also a realist.

Oh is that you inferiority complex kicking in with the cliche "I can't help that you can't grasp it" line. Does it make you feel better? Do you think your a math savant because you know the about adjusted fg%? Your just so damn clever.

[tontoz]

Oh is that you inferiority complex kicking in with the cliche "I can't help that you can't grasp it" line. Does it make you feel better? Do you think your a math savant because you know the about adjusted fg%? Your just so damn clever.

I am not claiming to be smart because i know FG% isn't worth much. It is basic common sense.

I tried explaining it to you and you responded with a childish tantrum. Either you don't understand it or you dont want to understand it. So which is it?

[dobrojim]

when did you stop beating your wife?

<JK>

runs ducking for cover

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Childish tantrum? So your fond of hyperbole too, huh. In terms of the conversation at hand, I never made the claim that fg% was an end all be all stat. My original point I made was that Wall was moving up the ladder in that perspective. You will agree Wall shooting 44% for is better than 41%? I thought so.

[tontoz]

Childish tantrum? So your fond of hyperbole too, huh. In terms of the conversation at hand, I never made the claim that fg% was an end all be all stat. My original point I made was that Wall was moving up the ladder in that perspective. You will agree Wall shooting 44% for is better than 41%? I thought so.

Are you trying to say this isn't a childish tantrum?

God your a Wall hater. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, and more bitching.

Do you really think that was a reasonable response to this post?

FG% is a worthless stat in the 3 point era. It basically penalizes players for taking 3s, even if they shoot them well.

Wall's FG% is almost identical to Lillards. But Lillard takes almost 7 threes a game. Lillard's TS is almost 6.5% better than Walls.

Are you an idiot or do you just do good impressions?

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Childish tantrum? So your fond of hyperbole too, huh. In terms of the conversation at hand, I never made the claim that fg% was an end all be all stat. My original point I made was that Wall was moving up the ladder in that perspective. You will agree Wall shooting 44% for is better than 41%? I thought so.

Are you trying to say this isn't a childish tantrum?

God your a Wall hater. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, and more bitching.

Do you really think that was a reasonable response to this post?

FG% is a worthless stat in the 3 point era. It basically penalizes players for taking 3s, even if they shoot them well.

Wall's FG% is almost identical to Lillards. But Lillard takes almost 7 threes a game. Lillard's TS is almost 6.5% better than Walls.

Are you an idiot or do you just do good impressions?

Your right, I should have only used bitch three times, five times was compppletelllly childish of me. Your snide remarks regarding someone's intelligence and calling someone an idiot are the quintessential examples of maturity, my apologies.