Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[Ruzious]

Gortat doesn't get you Jordan in a sign and trade. Jordan's significantly younger and better.

Yes, but if the Clippers decide to give Jordan the max, they're condemning themselves to tax hell, which no one in the league wants to do right now with 2016 coming up. LA has done nothing but sing him praises this season, so it's entirely possible that will be the route they go in resigning him and fully committing to a Griffin/Paul/Jordan core, but there's also an equal chance they let him walk in order to reinforce Griffin/Paul with the bevy of talent (and there's A LOT of it outside of KD) in 2016.

Still, if they do a S&T, they should get multiple offers significantly better than Gortat.

[Dark Faze]

I wouldn't be opposed to a Boogie trade, but if you have to give up Beal/Porter for him, that leaves you with no other assets at this point in time. Like I said, I'd rather take Jordan and then use Beal/Porter to bring in an elite wing player.

Dude, if you get them both you can just buy elite talent with the ridiculous cap space you'll have. Having both Wall and Boogie on pre-salary raise maxes is basically legal cheating. They are two of the absolute best contracts you're going to find once the cap goes up in '16.

Combined salary in 16 will be a little over 31 million. That could be as little as a third of the cap. In comparison, a max for a guy like Lillard might cost the Blazers 25 million.

If you could get both Wall and Cousins, it would be super hard not to be able to put significant pieces around them.

[gambitx777]

I still say you toss out a Beal, Gortat, Sato, 2016 first 2017 second 2018 first and see if you can work some magic. Thats a pretty big haul for the kings. and you know GC is going to probably make a lot of trades.

[dangermouse]

Trade Satoransky? But we havent even seen him yet.

He'll push Wall out of the starting lineup, he just needs a shot.

[nate33]

Gortat doesn't get you Jordan in a sign and trade. Jordan's significantly younger and better.

Yes, but if the Clippers decide to give Jordan the max, they're condemning themselves to tax hell, which no one in the league wants to do right now with 2016 coming up. LA has done nothing but sing him praises this season, so it's entirely possible that will be the route they go in resigning him and fully committing to a Griffin/Paul/Jordan core, but there's also an equal chance they let him walk in order to reinforce Griffin/Paul with the bevy of talent (and there's A LOT of it outside of KD) in 2016.

Still, if they do a S&T, they should get multiple offers significantly better than Gortat.

I'm not so sure about that, Ruzious.

Jordan is about to cost something on the order of $19M a year. He's better than Gortat, but not THAT much better. He is a limited offensive player made to look better by Paul's passing. He can't play in crunch time because of his free throw shooting.

[Ruzious]

Yes, but if the Clippers decide to give Jordan the max, they're condemning themselves to tax hell, which no one in the league wants to do right now with 2016 coming up. LA has done nothing but sing him praises this season, so it's entirely possible that will be the route they go in resigning him and fully committing to a Griffin/Paul/Jordan core, but there's also an equal chance they let him walk in order to reinforce Griffin/Paul with the bevy of talent (and there's A LOT of it outside of KD) in 2016.

Still, if they do a S&T, they should get multiple offers significantly better than Gortat.

I'm not so sure about that, Ruzious.

Jordan is about to cost something on the order of $19M a year. He's better than Gortat, but not THAT much better. He is a limited offensive player made to look better by Paul's passing. He can't play in crunch time because of his free throw shooting.

You can play him in crunch time, because even with his poor foul shooting, he's got a 72% eFG, and he's probably the best offensive rebounder in the NBA. Yes, Paul helps him, but he also helps Paul - giving Paul a great target for easy dunks. And he's more durable than the typical center - playing 35 minutes a game 82 games a year. Quietly and gradually - improving year after year - Jordan has become one of the top few bigs in the NBA - and he's still just 26 years old.

[dckingsfan]

Trade Satoransky? But we havent even seen him yet.

He'll push Wall out of the starting lineup, he just needs a shot.

So my take - for what it is worth. He is better than Porter (but Porter hopefully will take a huge jump this off-season), Temple and Webster right now. He is better than Sessions as well. But... I still think it would take him 1/2 a season to get used the speed of the NBA game.

Since he isn't coming for another season at least, it is all moot. But, I really wish we would have had the $2M or so that he wanted - I think he would have really helped this season.

Bottom line, he would have been in the rotation this year.

[Ruzious]

Trade Satoransky? But we havent even seen him yet.

He'll push Wall out of the starting lineup, he just needs a shot.

So my take - for what it is worth. He is better than Porter (but Porter hopefully will take a huge jump this off-season), Temple and Webster right now. He is better than Sessions as well. But... I still think it would take him 1/2 a season to get used the speed of the NBA game.

Since he isn't coming for another season at least, it is all moot. But, I really wish we would have had the $2M or so that he wanted - I think he would have really helped this season.

Bottom line, he would have been in the rotation this year.

Otoh, it seems he had a very good year of development, and the Wiz retain his rights.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I still say you toss out a Beal, Gortat, Sato, 2016 first 2017 second 2018 first and see if you can work some magic. Thats a pretty big haul for the kings. and you know GC is going to probably make a lot of trades.

GK?

This is a realistic trade scenario.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Still, if they do a S&T, they should get multiple offers significantly better than Gortat.

I'm not so sure about that, Ruzious.

Jordan is about to cost something on the order of $19M a year. He's better than Gortat, but not THAT much better. He is a limited offensive player made to look better by Paul's passing. He can't play in crunch time because of his free throw shooting.

You can play him in crunch time, because even with his poor foul shooting, he's got a 72% eFG, and he's probably the best offensive rebounder in the NBA. Yes, Paul helps him, but he also helps Paul - giving Paul a great target for easy dunks. And he's more durable than the typical center - playing 35 minutes a game 82 games a year. Quietly and gradually - improving year after year - Jordan has become one of the top few bigs in the NBA - and he's still just 26 years old.

DeAndre Jordan is averaging 14 points and 18 rebounds a game since Blake Griffin has been out injured.

[Sluggerface]

Yes, but if the Clippers decide to give Jordan the max, they're condemning themselves to tax hell, which no one in the league wants to do right now with 2016 coming up. LA has done nothing but sing him praises this season, so it's entirely possible that will be the route they go in resigning him and fully committing to a Griffin/Paul/Jordan core, but there's also an equal chance they let him walk in order to reinforce Griffin/Paul with the bevy of talent (and there's A LOT of it outside of KD) in 2016.

Still, if they do a S&T, they should get multiple offers significantly better than Gortat.

I'm not so sure about that, Ruzious.

Jordan is about to cost something on the order of $19M a year. He's better than Gortat, but not THAT much better. He is a limited offensive player made to look better by Paul's passing. He can't play in crunch time because of his free throw shooting.

Jordan, on any kind of advanced metric, rates as an elite player. It's easy to look at a highlight tape of Jordan and just be like "Oh he just gets putbacks and dunks. There's like 100 of those guys in the league", but there just isn't. Jordan is in a class of his own, he can do those things regardless of who is passing him the ball. That's his game. It's gravitational offense. The Clips are 8 points per 100 possesions better with CP3+Jordan in the lineup than just CP3+anyone else.

As to the old "hack-a-shaq" strategy or any other variant, I fail to see how that strat is anything more than just a desperate attempt to launch a team back into the game when they're getting crushed. The only reason it's used is to slow down the pace of the game and take an opposing team out of rhythm. It has way more cons than pros. You're intentionally fast tracking your team over the foul limit with this strategy, and you're eliminating any transition game your team effectively has because the defense is always going to be set after every free throw attempt. What's worse is, you can't back out after doing something like that if it doesn't work and the big gets into a rhythm and starts shooting 60-70%. You have to go all in with it. It's a hail mary attempt to get back in a basketball game, and it's as effective as a hail mary. The clips have won every single game in which Jordan has attempted 15+ free throws. There's no problem with playing him in the clutch.

[gambitx777]

I still say you toss out a Beal, Gortat, Sato, 2016 first 2017 second 2018 first and see if you can work some magic. Thats a pretty big haul for the kings. and you know GC is going to probably make a lot of trades.

GK?

This is a realistic trade scenario.

George karl lol sorry must have put a C down by mistake!
But yeah, if we pulled a deal like this we would still be in the running for KD in 2016. We could find some serviceable 2 guards on the cheep, someone like a Dez Wells or Wesley Saunders would be nice in the second round. Buddy Hield, Justin anderson, Delon Wright and Caris LeVert should all be there in our first round range if we don't go after a big. KJ McDaniels, Vander Blue and Seth Curry would all be guys to look at. Guys like CDR, Crawford, Stucky, Belinelli, or Henderson would be interesting stop gaps. With Wes Mathews injury, it could be possible to steal him. My point is if you trade Beal there are plenty of options for 2 guards out there who could match or exceed the production that he gives you right now, at an affordable coast. You almost can't match Boogie.

[payitforward]

Gortat doesn't get you Jordan in a sign and trade. Jordan's significantly younger and better.

Yes, but if the Clippers decide to give Jordan the max, they're condemning themselves to tax hell, which no one in the league wants to do right now with 2016 coming up. LA has done nothing but sing him praises this season, so it's entirely possible that will be the route they go in resigning him and fully committing to a Griffin/Paul/Jordan core, but there's also an equal chance they let him walk in order to reinforce Griffin/Paul with the bevy of talent (and there's A LOT of it outside of KD) in 2016.

You don't get guys like DeAndre Jordan by trading for them when they're at the top of their value. You get them by picking them in the draft.

In '08, I would have taken Speights or Hibbert had either been there (and not been right to do that btw), but my backup plan, if they were gone, was to trade down and get Batum and Jordan. In fact, I thought we could get them and Chalmers, whom I also liked, if we also used our R2 pick in the deal.

As it turned out, that would have been quite possible, as you'll see by looking at what Morey did w/ trades further down in R1 that year.

I didn't understand the McGee pick at all -- he did nothing in college to make me want him.

[gambitx777]

I didn't understand the McGee pick at all -- he did nothing in college to make me want him.

That's the thing, EG is stuck on, you can't teach size, he has so much up side, man he is athletic he just needs to put it all together. That's why we got Jan and not Leonard. A guy needs the mind for the game, the work ethic, skill and talent. Being 7 foot tall is not talent. We need guys who are better at evaluating talent and character!

[Ruzious]

Gortat doesn't get you Jordan in a sign and trade. Jordan's significantly younger and better.

Yes, but if the Clippers decide to give Jordan the max, they're condemning themselves to tax hell, which no one in the league wants to do right now with 2016 coming up. LA has done nothing but sing him praises this season, so it's entirely possible that will be the route they go in resigning him and fully committing to a Griffin/Paul/Jordan core, but there's also an equal chance they let him walk in order to reinforce Griffin/Paul with the bevy of talent (and there's A LOT of it outside of KD) in 2016.

You don't get guys like DeAndre Jordan by trading for them when they're at the top of their value. You get them by picking them in the draft.

In '08, I would have taken Speights or Hibbert had either been there (and not been right to do that btw), but my backup plan, if they were gone, was to trade down and get Batum and Jordan. In fact, I thought we could get them and Chalmers, whom I also liked, if we also used our R2 pick in the deal.

As it turned out, that would have been quite possible, as you'll see by looking at what Morey did w/ trades further down in R1 that year.

I didn't understand the McGee pick at all -- he did nothing in college to make me want him.

I was also hoping for Speights or Hibbert, but I thought McGee was worth a shot at 18 once they were gone. He showed enough potential at Vegas, and you take a chance on potential at 18. It was the right pick imo - it just didn't work out.

[fishercob]

Yes, but if the Clippers decide to give Jordan the max, they're condemning themselves to tax hell, which no one in the league wants to do right now with 2016 coming up. LA has done nothing but sing him praises this season, so it's entirely possible that will be the route they go in resigning him and fully committing to a Griffin/Paul/Jordan core, but there's also an equal chance they let him walk in order to reinforce Griffin/Paul with the bevy of talent (and there's A LOT of it outside of KD) in 2016.

You don't get guys like DeAndre Jordan by trading for them when they're at the top of their value. You get them by picking them in the draft.

In '08, I would have taken Speights or Hibbert had either been there (and not been right to do that btw), but my backup plan, if they were gone, was to trade down and get Batum and Jordan. In fact, I thought we could get them and Chalmers, whom I also liked, if we also used our R2 pick in the deal.

As it turned out, that would have been quite possible, as you'll see by looking at what Morey did w/ trades further down in R1 that year.

I didn't understand the McGee pick at all -- he did nothing in college to make me want him.

I was also hoping for Speights or Hibbert, but I thought McGee was worth a shot at 18 once they were gone. He showed enough potential at Vegas, and you take a chance on potential at 18. It was the right pick imo - it just didn't work out.

I wanted Hibbert badly. We we were running the Princeton and so was he. He would have been a perfect fit behind Haywood. I was so irritated that Ernie couldn't figure out a way to hop ahead of Indiana to grab him.

[nate33]

I was also hoping for Speights or Hibbert, but I thought McGee was worth a shot at 18 once they were gone. He showed enough potential at Vegas, and you take a chance on potential at 18. It was the right pick imo - it just didn't work out.

I agree. McGee was a swing-for-the-fences type of pick. He really showed some promise by his 3rd season from a physical development and skills standpoint. He just never turned the corner from a maturity standpoint. I can't hate Ernie for that pick.

One wonders if he wouldn't have developed better in a more stable environment, though. We had Arenas pooping in shoes and pulling out guns, Swaggy P. eating cinnamon, and Neck Fat with lap dance Tuesdays. Not exactly the right peer group for an immature guy like McGee.

[payitforward]

I was also hoping for Speights or Hibbert, but I thought McGee was worth a shot at 18 once they were gone. He showed enough potential at Vegas, and you take a chance on potential at 18. It was the right pick imo - it just didn't work out.

I agree. McGee was a swing-for-the-fences type of pick. He really showed some promise by his 3rd season from a physical development and skills standpoint. He just never turned the corner from a maturity standpoint. I can't hate Ernie for that pick.

One wonders if he wouldn't have developed better in a more stable environment, though. We had Arenas pooping in shoes and pulling out guns, Swaggy P. eating cinnamon, and Neck Fat with lap dance Tuesdays. Not exactly the right peer group for an immature guy like McGee.

Oh I agree -- it wasn't a "hate Ernie" pick. He's done much worse. But I couldn't see it as "the right pick" either -- not w/ the level of talent available further down and the chance to trade down there to get more of it (and spread the risk: this is underestimated!).

I mean back then, btw -- not hindsight based on how things turned out.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Well before the season I was against pretty much any scenario involving Beal, based mainly on the super chemistry between him and Wall.

But despite his youth and potential, I find the lack of progression this year to be disappointing, but am mainly concerned with his inability to stay on the court.

If we can get Kaminsky in the draft then great. If not, I would be open to a Beal/Nene type of deal for Love. Maybe draft someone like Devon Booker to replace Beal.

If we get Kaminsky, maybe do a Cousins trade... Gortat, Beal, Porter? Anyway, I'd a least be open to exploring what we can do with Beal in trade.

[Dark Faze]

I think Nene for Love might be a good trade in the summer if things don't work out. Nene I think would be a better player for Cleveland in a post season scenario. Much better defender, and they'd gain valuable size and have a legitimately imposing front court rotation. They don't need Nene for 82 games. 60 games and then healthy for the playoffs works well for how they are built. Also, once Nene expires the increasing cap will allow them to go after a superstar who is a better fit.

For us, we get to kick the tires on him and see how things go. If Durant wants to come, we can thank Love for his services and let him walk in the off-season. If it looks like he'll bolt, we might be able to get value in a trade at the deadline who might be impatient.

If the Sixers are in a position for a big man with their pick, I'd swap our pick for theirs and include a first for next year and Porter. Or I'd offer a first (this year) and Porter for Noel.