Celtics General Offseason (incl. Trade) Thread, 2019

[C-LeagueMVP]

I seems most prudent to see how this postseason plays out before deciding to give up your best young assets for AD this offseason.

AD and Kyrie are respectively 2 and 3 years older than Giannis, have an established injury history, and both requested trades from their teams when things weren't going their way.

Giannis on the other hand is only 3 years older than Tatum, objectively has more upside than AD and Kyrie, is built like a Abrams, and looks committed to building a dynasty in Milwaukee.

If the Bucks make it to the finals and give the Warriors a run for their money, it may make more sense for the Celtics to develop their youth.

Pushing all your chips in this year may be the sexy move but you have to consider what cards other GMs at the table are holding...

Popovich had 10 years of NBA experience before winning his first title with Duncan and building a culture-oriented environment that can contend for multiple seasons down the road could very well yield better odds for another Celtics championship.

In my opinion, CBS still has upside as an NBA coach and is better suited leading a young team than dealing AD and Kyrie sized egos right now.

Post-injury Hayward will be hard to move but at least he and Horford seem like type of team-first players you want your young talent to learn from.

Even if Horford doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, this past lottery has shown much greater odds for middle-of-the-road teams to land an impact player.

Combined with the near-future possibility of a lower draft age, I am even more wary of the Celtics hitching their wagon to AD and/or Kyrie.

To those on this board more knowledgeable that I, what would an optimal offseason for a 4-5 year path towards title contention look like?

[ThumbsUpBaby]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

[zoyathedestroya]

So many possibilities. This offseason be crazy. Can't wait to refresh these pages every two minutes from June 29 to July 6.

[FlatearthZorro]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

He's a gamer tho, very smart, good defender.

[ParticleMan]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

if we trade tatum+smart for AD, he would be a great fit.

rubio
brown
hayward
horford
AD

lots of ball movement, good shooters around AD (except for rubio, but he's not too bad when open).

i don't know how we'd sign him tho. MLE?

edit: i'm assuming kyrie leaves, otherwise there's no point getting rubio obviously.

[aim2please]

Call me crazy, but I want Clippers' Chris Paul scenario for Irving. Kyrie opts-in, gets traded to team X, Celtics get pick(s) and/or value pieces. I know it sounds stupid, but 5 year max deal to Kyrie is going to be a short term win, long term it will be a terrible deal.

Making everyone around you hate coming to work is a big red flag. Not to mention his knee problems.

Depending on who they can get in FA, there's a scenario where it makes sense for LAL to sign a max free agent and then trade for Irving, instead of using all of their cap space on him.

I like the premise, but would that not cost Kyrie about $15m this upcoming season (not accounting for the benefit of his bird rights for the next contract). Happy to send him to the lakers for a 1st, a young player and maybr a TPE

A: If he re-signs with Boston, max he could get is 5y/$189.66m. He would be 32y old at the end of that contract.

B: If he leaves, max another team can offer him is 4y/$140.61m. He would be 31y old at the end of that contract.

C: If he opts-in, and gets a 5 year max next summer, he would earn $21m next season + projected 5y/$204m starting next summer. He would be 33 at the end of that contract.

So, in scenario C, $225m in 6 years, meaning that he would earn $35m more than in scenario A. To be fair, in one extra season. I don't think he'll get $35m in first year of his new contract at the age of 32.

Of course, a big question is will he get a 5 year max next summer? What if he gets injured? To avoid major risk, best thing to do is to lock in a 5 year max deal this summer.

But if he can get a wink wink from LAL, or if he's willing to bet on not getting injured, IMO it's better to sign a 5 year max at the age of 28 than at the age of 27. Why? Because it's highly unlikely he's gonna be a max player at the end of either of those contracts. So why not get max dollars until you're 33.

[aim2please]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

This Rubio story is taken out of context. Rubio sees himself as a starting level PG. So he basically went through every roster in the NBA and looked at PG position. If there's an opening, it's a potential destination. Only reason he mentioned Celtics is because Irving could leave and open a starting PG job.

Rubio seems like a nice guy and a great teammate, but unless you're an NBA hipster why would you want a non-shooting PG in 2019 as your starting PG.

[zoyathedestroya]

Call me crazy, but I want Clippers' Chris Paul scenario for Irving. Kyrie opts-in, gets traded to team X, Celtics get pick(s) and/or value pieces. I know it sounds stupid, but 5 year max deal to Kyrie is going to be a short term win, long term it will be a terrible deal.

Making everyone around you hate coming to work is a big red flag. Not to mention his knee problems.

Depending on who they can get in FA, there's a scenario where it makes sense for LAL to sign a max free agent and then trade for Irving, instead of using all of their cap space on him.

I like the premise, but would that not cost Kyrie about $15m this upcoming season (not accounting for the benefit of his bird rights for the next contract). Happy to send him to the lakers for a 1st, a young player and maybr a TPE

A: If he re-signs with Boston, max he could get is 5y/$189.66m. He would be 32y old at the end of that contract.

B: If he leaves, max another team can offer him is 4y/$140.61m. He would be 31y old at the end of that contract.

C: If he opts-in, and gets a 5 year max next summer, he would earn $21m next season + projected 5y/$204m starting next summer. He would be 33 at the end of that contract.

So, in scenario C, $225m in 6 years, meaning that he would earn $35m more than in scenario A. To be fair, in one extra season. I don't think he'll get $35m in first year of his new contract at the age of 32.

Of course, a big question is will he get a 5 year max next summer? What if he gets injured? To avoid major risk, best thing to do is to lock in a 5 year max deal this summer.

But if he can get a wink wink from LAL, or if he's willing to bet on not getting injured, IMO it's better to sign a 5 year max at the age of 28 than at the age of 27. Why? Because it's highly unlikely he's gonna be a max player at the end of either of those contracts. So why not get max dollars until you're 33.

Isn't there an option D where he signs a 1+1 either in Boston (D1) or somewhere else (D2)?

[Edug27]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

He's a gamer tho, very smart, good defender.

Would be a good backup PG. Not really thrilled about him as a starter..

[aim2please]

I like the premise, but would that not cost Kyrie about $15m this upcoming season (not accounting for the benefit of his bird rights for the next contract). Happy to send him to the lakers for a 1st, a young player and maybr a TPE

A: If he re-signs with Boston, max he could get is 5y/$189.66m. He would be 32y old at the end of that contract.

B: If he leaves, max another team can offer him is 4y/$140.61m. He would be 31y old at the end of that contract.

C: If he opts-in, and gets a 5 year max next summer, he would earn $21m next season + projected 5y/$204m starting next summer. He would be 33 at the end of that contract.

So, in scenario C, $225m in 6 years, meaning that he would earn $35m more than in scenario A. To be fair, in one extra season. I don't think he'll get $35m in first year of his new contract at the age of 32.

Of course, a big question is will he get a 5 year max next summer? What if he gets injured? To avoid major risk, best thing to do is to lock in a 5 year max deal this summer.

But if he can get a wink wink from LAL, or if he's willing to bet on not getting injured, IMO it's better to sign a 5 year max at the age of 28 than at the age of 27. Why? Because it's highly unlikely he's gonna be a max player at the end of either of those contracts. So why not get max dollars until you're 33.

Isn't there an option D where he signs a 1+1 either in Boston (D1) or somewhere else (D2)?

Absolutely. I just went with max dollar options.

[Celts17Pride]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

He's a gamer tho, very smart, good defender.

Would be a good backup PG. Not really thrilled about him as a starter..

If the Celtics sign Rubio it would be as a starter for the tax payer MLE. I personally don’t think it will happen but who knows. Going to be a few surprises this off-season

[Edug27]

He's a gamer tho, very smart, good defender.

Would be a good backup PG. Not really thrilled about him as a starter..

If the Celtics sign Rubio it would be as a starter for the tax payer MLE. I personally don’t think it will happen but who knows. Going to be a few surprises this off-season

Agree. I just don’t think Rubio is a starting PG on a legit team.

[chrisab123]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

This Rubio story is taken out of context. Rubio sees himself as a starting level PG. So he basically went through every roster in the NBA and looked at PG position. If there's an opening, it's a potential destination. Only reason he mentioned Celtics is because Irving could leave and open a starting PG job.

Rubio seems like a nice guy and a great teammate, but unless you're an NBA hipster why would you want a non-shooting PG in 2019 as your starting PG.

If you're going to consider Rubio why not just bring Rondo back? He'd help with AD and he's a gamer.

[FlatearthZorro]

Would be a good backup PG. Not really thrilled about him as a starter..

If the Celtics sign Rubio it would be as a starter for the tax payer MLE. I personally don’t think it will happen but who knows. Going to be a few surprises this off-season

Agree. I just don’t think Rubio is a starting PG on a legit team.

Jazz just reached the 2nd round of the playoffs, dude was averaging close to a double-double. Shooting better than Kyrie.

[brackdan70]

I seems most prudent to see how this postseason plays out before deciding to give up your best young assets for AD this offseason.

AD and Kyrie are respectively 2 and 3 years older than Giannis, have an established injury history, and both requested trades from their teams when things weren't going their way.

Giannis on the other hand is only 3 years older than Tatum, objectively has more upside than AD and Kyrie, is built like a Abrams, and looks committed to building a dynasty in Milwaukee.

If the Bucks make it to the finals and give the Warriors a run for their money, it may make more sense for the Celtics to develop their youth.

Pushing all your chips in this year may be the sexy move but you have to consider what cards other GMs at the table are holding...

Popovich had 10 years of NBA experience before winning his first title with Duncan and building a culture-oriented environment that can contend for multiple seasons down the road could very well yield better odds for another Celtics championship.

In my opinion, CBS still has upside as an NBA coach and is better suited leading a young team than dealing AD and Kyrie sized egos right now.

Post-injury Hayward will be hard to move but at least he and Horford seem like type of team-first players you want your young talent to learn from.

Even if Horford doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, this past lottery has shown much greater odds for middle-of-the-road teams to land an impact player.

Combined with the near-future possibility of a lower draft age, I am even more wary of the Celtics hitching their wagon to AD and/or Kyrie.

To those on this board more knowledgeable that I, what would an optimal offseason for a 4-5 year path towards title contention look like?

I may not have more knowledge. You make some good points.

If Kyrie moves on I don’t mind running it back with Smart Brown Tatum Hayward Horford
Baynes Theis Ojeleye Wanamaker Williams and draft picks. Need to to add a rotation ball handler and an experienced 4 to that mix somehow but that can be done. Maybe even bring Morris back if he is willing. Cs still have a future lotto pick from Memphis in that scenario as well. I’d be fine with that.

If Kyrie stays then I think you throw the chips in and give it a shot. Giannis is great but Cs could build a team to beat the Bucks. If Kyrie made shots this year then could have done it.

[Edug27]

If the Celtics sign Rubio it would be as a starter for the tax payer MLE. I personally don’t think it will happen but who knows. Going to be a few surprises this off-season

Agree. I just don’t think Rubio is a starting PG on a legit team.

Jazz just reached the 2nd round of the playoffs, dude was averaging close to a double-double. Shooting better than Kyrie.

Second round? You mean last year? On a 48 win team? Where Rubio shot just as poorly as Kyrie in the playoffs. (Also, you have to take into consideration the types of shots both players are taking lol. Rubio isn’t the primary scorer there.)

Or you mean this year? Losing in 5 to Houston in the first round, where Rubio shot 20% from 3, brick after brick with no remorse, Marcus Smart style.

Again.. he’s a decent starting PG. Just not in a legit team. If Kyrie leaves, and AD is a no-go, I wouldn’t be surprised if Horford opts out for a better situation.. and at that point, we might as well just go super young.

[FlatearthZorro]

Agree. I just don’t think Rubio is a starting PG on a legit team.

Jazz just reached the 2nd round of the playoffs, dude was averaging close to a double-double. Shooting better than Kyrie.

Second round? You mean last year? On a 48 win team? Where Rubio shot just as poorly as Kyrie in the playoffs. (Also, you have to take into consideration the types of shots both players are taking lol. Rubio isn’t the primary scorer there.)

Or you mean this year? Losing in 5 to Houston in the first round, where Rubio shot 20% from 3, brick after brick with no remorse, Marcus Smart style.

Again.. he’s a decent starting PG. Just not in a legit team. If Kyrie leaves, and AD is a no-go, I wouldn’t be surprised if Horford opts out for a better situation.. and at that point, we might as well just go super young.

Oh yea,I forgot but he did shoot 43.5 if I'm not mistaking 13/8.5...

[Andrew McCeltic]

Ricky Rubio sees Celtics as his potential destination.
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/15/report-ricky-rubio-has-interest-signing-with-the-celtics/

I'm personally open to Rubio being our starting PG. He's an elite facilitator, although our already average offense won't improve since he's not good at scoring (shooting for that matter).

He's a gamer tho, very smart, good defender.

Would be a good backup PG. Not really thrilled about him as a starter..

If Kyrie stays and Smart gets moved for Davis, and Rubio is willing to take the taxpayer MLE, or work out a sign and trade between Utah and Boston (Rozier to Utah for 14 million, Rubio to Boston for 9?)..

You start him at the 1, with Kyrie at the 2.. He’s a very smart player, would stack with Horford and Hayward in that respect - defends well, passes well, shot is respectable now, the major issue is that with his size and frame, he’s very bad finishing at the rim..

[Valid]

He's a gamer tho, very smart, good defender.

Would be a good backup PG. Not really thrilled about him as a starter..

If Kyrie stays and Smart gets moved for Davis, and Rubio is willing to take the taxpayer MLE, or work out a sign and trade between Utah and Boston (Rozier to Utah for 14 million, Rubio to Boston for 9?)..

You start him at the 1, with Kyrie at the 2.. He’s a very smart player, would stack with Horford and Hayward in that respect - defends well, passes well, shot is respectable now, the major issue is that with his size and frame, he’s very bad finishing at the rim..

Rubio is going to want a lot more than that.

[Valid]

Agree. I just don’t think Rubio is a starting PG on a legit team.

Jazz just reached the 2nd round of the playoffs, dude was averaging close to a double-double. Shooting better than Kyrie.

Second round? You mean last year? On a 48 win team? Where Rubio shot just as poorly as Kyrie in the playoffs. (Also, you have to take into consideration the types of shots both players are taking lol. Rubio isn’t the primary scorer there.)

Or you mean this year? Losing in 5 to Houston in the first round, where Rubio shot 20% from 3, brick after brick with no remorse, Marcus Smart style.

Again.. he’s a decent starting PG. Just not in a legit team. If Kyrie leaves, and AD is a no-go, I wouldn’t be surprised if Horford opts out for a better situation.. and at that point, we might as well just go super young.

Except Smart shot 36.4 percent from three this year, which is better than Rubio has ever shot in his entire career. Nice try, though.