Is it OK to laugh at Embiid for crying?

[Bornstellar]

I don't think it's okay. And I don't see why it's a big deal anyway. Dude is passionate and his team lost a heartbreaker. He obviously cares about his teams success. Why is this something to mock?

[WCCC]

Bully - no
Light-heartedly joke about it after the fact - yes

Embiid was dancing around and showboating after one game. He constantly trash talks and laughs at other's misfortunes. If he can dish it, then he can take it too.

You can't expect for people to believe that it's ok for him to trash talk others because it's entertainment, but it's not ok for others to trash talk him.

Of course, if you just played him and won and laugh at him while he's crying, then you're being an insensitive sore winner. It's about context.

[Luigi]

I don't think it's okay. And I don't see why it's a big deal anyway. Dude is passionate and his team lost a heartbreaker. He obviously cares about his teams success. Why is this something to mock?

I think its obvious that he's a child. He acts like one in many ways, from laughing about injuring players in post game interviews, to trolling other players on twitter, to dancing around on the court in game 7. Those are tears of a child that needs to grow up. Not the tears of an adult that understands what it all means.

[Bornstellar]

I don't think it's okay. And I don't see why it's a big deal anyway. Dude is passionate and his team lost a heartbreaker. He obviously cares about his teams success. Why is this something to mock?

I think its obvious that he's a child. He acts like one in many ways, from laughing about injuring players in post game interviews, to trolling other players on twitter, to dancing around on the court in game 7. Those are tears of a child that needs to grow up. Not the tears of an adult that understands what it all means.

Yeah he's a clown on the court and he trolls players and stuff, but I don't see what that has to do with mocking a game crying over a heartbreaking game 7 loss at the buzzer. He deserves to be criticized for being a douche for sure, but laughing at a dude getting emotional over his team losing? Reeks of insecurity imo

[Luigi]

I don't think it's okay. And I don't see why it's a big deal anyway. Dude is passionate and his team lost a heartbreaker. He obviously cares about his teams success. Why is this something to mock?

I think its obvious that he's a child. He acts like one in many ways, from laughing about injuring players in post game interviews, to trolling other players on twitter, to dancing around on the court in game 7. Those are tears of a child that needs to grow up. Not the tears of an adult that understands what it all means.

Yeah he's a clown on the court and he trolls players and stuff, but I don't see what that has to do with mocking a game crying over a heartbreaking game 7 loss at the buzzer. He deserves to be criticized for being a douche for sure, but laughing at a dude getting emotional over his team losing? Reeks of insecurity imo

Again, there are two kinds of getting emotional. One is praiseworthy, one is immaturity. Embiid is a child, and this is just one more symptom of childishness from him.

[Lunartic]

Eh....the raptors held the 76ers to less points and they scored more points. I'm not sure how you come up with better offense or defense from that.

As for pay...most superstars are good on both ends. None the less it is equally valuable to hold a team to 10 less than it is to elevate your team to score 10 more. Any player who could do EITHER of those consistently is worth the super max as I chose rather extreme numbers with 10.

Defensive ratings vs offense ratings

Most superstars either are average on defense (Curry, Harden)

Elite on defense (Embiid, Durant, George)

Or bad on defense (Westbrook, Lillard)

One thing they have in common is that they are all elite on offense.

Gobert and Smart are good examples of players that are elite defensively but below average on Offense. If all things are equal or in your estimation, Defense weighs more, shouldn't those two be superstars?

KD elite on defense? LOL

and on what world is Gobert not a superstar?

Durant has made himself into an elite post defender these past two seasons, he's very good with his length

Gobert is not a superstar and probably never will be, are you being sarcastic?

Most of us consider top-7 players to be superstars, possibly top-10, who is your top 10?

Mines(no particular order)
LeBron
Durant
Curry
Leonard
Harden
Giannis
Davis
Westbrook
Lillard
George

I'm very confused and interested

[dhsilv2]

Defensive ratings vs offense ratings

Most superstars either are average on defense (Curry, Harden)

Elite on defense (Embiid, Durant, George)

Or bad on defense (Westbrook, Lillard)

One thing they have in common is that they are all elite on offense.

Gobert and Smart are good examples of players that are elite defensively but below average on Offense. If all things are equal or in your estimation, Defense weighs more, shouldn't those two be superstars?

KD elite on defense? LOL

and on what world is Gobert not a superstar?

Durant has made himself into an elite post defender these past two seasons, he's very good with his length

Gobert is not a superstar and probably never will be, are you being sarcastic?

Most of us consider top-7 players to be superstars, possibly top-10, who is your top 10?

Mines(no particular order)
LeBron
Durant
Curry
Leonard
Harden
Giannis
Davis
Westbrook
Lillard
George

I'm very confused and interested

KD's made himself into an above average defender mostly because he doesn't have to carry the load offensively. Elite, he's not close to that. Dray is elite. Nobody else on that team is in that class.

Top 10 is too hard to figure out right now. is it the best player if you know they're healthy? Is it based on the playoffs? The regular season? Paul george was a top 10 player but he's hurt so now where is he?

But best players this year in the season. Likely would create a different top 10 if I went again. But can't include AD due to health, Lebron health, leonard health, I didn't watch enough Vulcevic to rank him, westbrook wasn't any good this year.

Harden
Paul
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
KD
Lillard
Gobert
Siakam

[Bornstellar]

I think its obvious that he's a child. He acts like one in many ways, from laughing about injuring players in post game interviews, to trolling other players on twitter, to dancing around on the court in game 7. Those are tears of a child that needs to grow up. Not the tears of an adult that understands what it all means.

Yeah he's a clown on the court and he trolls players and stuff, but I don't see what that has to do with mocking a game crying over a heartbreaking game 7 loss at the buzzer. He deserves to be criticized for being a douche for sure, but laughing at a dude getting emotional over his team losing? Reeks of insecurity imo

Again, there are two kinds of getting emotional. One is praiseworthy, one is immaturity. Embiid is a child, and this is just one more symptom of childishness from him.

Yeah no, you're welcome to think that, but I'm fairly certain there aren't only "two kinds of getting emotional"

[Lalouie]

whatever.
but i have to ask,,,,why would you?

[Luigi]

Yeah he's a clown on the court and he trolls players and stuff, but I don't see what that has to do with mocking a game crying over a heartbreaking game 7 loss at the buzzer. He deserves to be criticized for being a douche for sure, but laughing at a dude getting emotional over his team losing? Reeks of insecurity imo

Again, there are two kinds of getting emotional. One is praiseworthy, one is immaturity. Embiid is a child, and this is just one more symptom of childishness from him.

Yeah no, you're welcome to think that, but I'm fairly certain there aren't only "two kinds of getting emotional"

Hmmm, that is a very surprising view of emotions. Surely anger when you are shafted is different than anger when you shaft someone. Sadness over a trajedy, and sadness over an accident, and sadness over selfishness deserve different praise and blame. Having the right emotions for the right things is part of being an adult. Some people lose them altogether, which is a mistake. But some people let them rule them, much like a child.

Anyway, maybe Embiid is crying the tears of a trajedy here. But I doubt it, given the maturity level he has displayed in other aspects of the game.

[Luigi]

whatever.
but i have to ask,,,,why would you?

For the enjoyment of justice!

Sports is a great way to play out justice and injustice where people don't die. We get to cheer heros and shame villians without anybody going to war. Embiid is playing the role of the bad guy, who cries in defeat. I think that's worth enjoying. Of course, I'd have a drink with Embiid and chill with him as a person if I knew him, or hold a door open for him as a person etc. But that's not the point, nba players aren't my friends, they are playing roles in an epic drama, which is what we talk about on this forum. In Embiid's role as a player here, who has showboated and laughed over hurting people and trolled players on twitter, I smile in this situation. Just like he plays his role.

[TroubleS0me]

Some potential arguments to consider on either side.

There's nothing wrong with Embiid crying. It just means he's passionate about the game, and laughing at that is wrong and feeds into toxic masculinity. There's nothing wrong with a grown man showing emotion and we shouldn't make fun of a man for crying.

Considering all the trash talk Embiid engages in, laughing at him for crying is his comeuppance, and if he can't deal with that, too bad.

While Embiid certainly engaged in trash talking, he never made fun of anyone for crying, and making fun of Embiid for crying is an action that is substantially worse than doing some light-hearted Twitter trolling.

It's OK to laugh at Embiid crying because of who he is and how he conducts himself, both showboating during games and trolling in postgame press conferences and on Twitter. No one laughed at Derrick Rose for crying after he had his 50-point game, for example. But Embiid had it coming with all that he gives.

not a good example

[dballislife]

wut kind of a person seeing another person crying on tv or on the streets or anywhere, and starts laughing?

not trying to be rude but you gotta be at least a little dum or a little twisted up there

[Coach Carter]

Joel is basically that rowdy kid in the playground that wants to feel important. They appear confident but this a response to their own insecurities and once adversity hits, they break and show their weak nature.

[Luigi]

wut kind of a person seeing another person crying on tv or on the streets or anywhere, and starts laughing?

not trying to be rude but you gotta be at least a little dum or a little twisted up there

Nah, it's all about context. What kind of person watches a bully in a TV show be a bully, who then gets his due, and doesn't smile at the justice?

"Peripeteia, (Greek: “reversal”) the turning point in a drama after which the plot moves steadily to its denouement. It is discussed by Aristotle in the Poetics as the shift of the tragic protagonist’s fortune from good to bad, which is essential to the plot of a tragedy. It is often an ironic twist, as in Sophocles’ Oedipus Rex when a messenger brings Oedipus news about his parents that he thinks will cheer him, but the news instead slowly brings about the awful recognition that leads to Oedipus’s catastrophe."
https://www.britannica.com/art/peripeteia


For the tragic hero, we cry with him. But for the villain, we celebrate when his fortune shifts. In this case, we laugh at the comedy of it.

[Luigi]

Joel is basically that rowdy kid in the playground that wants to feel important. They appear confident but this a response to their own insecurities and once adversity hits, they break and show their weak nature.

Yes, exactly. This new generation seems to think that all displays of emotion are the same. Sadness for one thing is the same as sadness for another thing. But sport should teach us to see through that. We see Embiid cry, and we see his childishness. I'd love to see him overcome his childish ways. Maybe this can be a turning point for him. For now, I laugh.

[Black Mage]

To each their own on this one. I get that people taking pleasure in his suffering because he annoys them.

What I will say, is people who say don't dish it if you cant take it make no sense at all. Embiid wasn't crying because some Raptors fan teased him or a player trolled him. He was crying in raw emotion at losing the series. That's something every person who has ever played in a sport and lost a hard fought game or series has probably gone through. It's natural.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Joel is basically that rowdy kid in the playground that wants to feel important. They appear confident but this a response to their own insecurities and once adversity hits, they break and show their weak nature.

Yes, exactly. This new generation seems to think that all displays of emotion are the same. Sadness for one thing is the same as sadness for another thing. But sport should teach us to see through that. We see Embiid cry, and we see his childishness. I'd love to see him overcome his childish ways. Maybe this can be a turning point for him. For now, I laugh.

What are you basing your weirdly aggressive opinion on? The only reasons you listed were laughing about injuring a player (didn't happen) and doing that airplane celebration. You must really hate that airplane celebration.

[FlatearthZorro]

No, it's not. The guy showed passion for the game.

[GeorgeMarcus]

.

I don't know which stats you want specifically, but on/off is listed in the 'play by play' dataset (and also has its own separate page with more comprehensive data).

You can find raw +/- in the game log section. It might take a little math to find what you're looking for, but I tell myself it's about the journey and not the destination.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html