Magic Exercising 20-21 Option on Fultz

[shakes0]

Only a could weeks till preseason. We will see how he looks then.

I doubt it.

[dhsilv2]

When was it a law that you have to be a doctor in order to have an option on an injured player (on a message board)?

Do you also have to be a paid GM of an NBA team to discuss trade possibilities?

When people make claims, stated as facts, that contradict not just doctors but specialists in their field...that's when things have gone a bit far.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

This for example goes so far as to claim that a manager forced a player to quit on a team, they found a doctor to make a false claim, and did all of this because...well we have no real idea why.

Then we have comments where someone claims that this absolutely is a mental condition....which they use effectively as if mental problems cannot be addressed with doctors (they can btw). And again they make this claim not stated as speculation but stating it as an absolute fact.

[Dan Z]

When was it a law that you have to be a doctor in order to have an option on an injured player (on a message board)?

Do you also have to be a paid GM of an NBA team to discuss trade possibilities?

When people make claims, stated as facts, that contradict not just doctors but specialists in their field...that's when things have gone a bit far.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

This for example goes so far as to claim that a manager forced a player to quit on a team, they found a doctor to make a false claim, and did all of this because...well we have no real idea why.

Then we have comments where someone claims that this absolutely is a mental condition....which they use effectively as if mental problems cannot be addressed with doctors (they can btw). And again they make this claim not stated as speculation but stating it as an absolute fact.

It's a message board. This is all speculation because none of us really know. We're not Fultz, his doctors or work for the Magic or Sixers. However that's okay because this is message board and that's what people do here...discuss the NBA.

Should comments about this story be taken as fact? No, of course not, but it doesn't hurt for anyone to have opinions on what they think might be the real story.

From an outside perspective his situation is questionable so people are bound to talk about it.

[dhsilv2]

When was it a law that you have to be a doctor in order to have an option on an injured player (on a message board)?

Do you also have to be a paid GM of an NBA team to discuss trade possibilities?

When people make claims, stated as facts, that contradict not just doctors but specialists in their field...that's when things have gone a bit far.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

This for example goes so far as to claim that a manager forced a player to quit on a team, they found a doctor to make a false claim, and did all of this because...well we have no real idea why.

Then we have comments where someone claims that this absolutely is a mental condition....which they use effectively as if mental problems cannot be addressed with doctors (they can btw). And again they make this claim not stated as speculation but stating it as an absolute fact.

It's a message board. This is all speculation because none of us really know. We're not Fultz, his doctors or work for the Magic or Sixers. However that's okay because this is message board and that's what people do here...discuss the NBA.

Should comments about this story be taken as fact? No, of course not, but it doesn't hurt for anyone to have opinions on what they think might be the real story.

From an outside perspective his situation is questionable so people are bound to talk about it.

Speculation should be based on reasonable information. When you lack any real details, it's best to not speculate. Worse of course are those who seem to take pleasure in any setback that happens to this kid, but that's a whole other topic.

I do feel however that there is something very wrong culturally in a society that feels non experts can not only question experts without a basis for the question, but to make up their own ideas and present them as facts equal to that of experts.

Most people here likely have watched thousands of not tens of thousands of hours of basketball, looked at countless basketball stats, and actually have enough knowledge about the sport to make very reasonable questions about basketball management. You don't have to be a GM to know a subject extremely well. If we had a group of medical enthusiasts who study medicine, rehabilitation, mental conditions, etc to the same levels then perhaps such speculation would be interest and useful. That doesn't appear to be the case here. People can't even understand that an outside specialist can't advertise they're the one who diagnosed a pro athlete...

[EAS Law]

When was it a law that you have to be a doctor in order to have an option on an injured player (on a message board)?

Do you also have to be a paid GM of an NBA team to discuss trade possibilities?

When people make claims, stated as facts, that contradict not just doctors but specialists in their field...that's when things have gone a bit far.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

This for example goes so far as to claim that a manager forced a player to quit on a team, they found a doctor to make a false claim, and did all of this because...well we have no real idea why.

Then we have comments where someone claims that this absolutely is a mental condition....which they use effectively as if mental problems cannot be addressed with doctors (they can btw). And again they make this claim not stated as speculation but stating it as an absolute fact.

It's a message board. This is all speculation because none of us really know. We're not Fultz, his doctors or work for the Magic or Sixers. However that's okay because this is message board and that's what people do here...discuss the NBA.

Should comments about this story be taken as fact? No, of course not, but it doesn't hurt for anyone to have opinions on what they think might be the real story.

From an outside perspective his situation is questionable so people are bound to talk about it.

I don’t think anyone is filing suit or being criminally charged for discussions on a message board, but I think the point here is that despite everyone’s reluctance to admit that they simply wish bad on Fultz because he no longer plays for their team and they secretly fear they’ve lost something valuable, those negative opinions of Fultz are no more based in fact than anyone claiming he has a bright future.

Other people in here simply love to speak negatively of others and then find “support” for their positions.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Every other NBA player's injury happens with a how, a where, and a when.

All except Markelle Fultz. Not a single one of those questions can be answered by anyone on this entire planet. Not how, not where, not when.

Instead of answers to those questions, we have people on RealGM lying to themselves about a BMX accident and shoulder injury and TOS and other things that they truly know, deep down, never happened. The reason for that kind of self-delusion is the real mystery in this situation.

That's the thing that I find the most perplexing. The effort that some people put into trying make excuses for Fultz's struggles, instead of just admitting he's garbage, and moving on. Especially ridiculous from 76ers fans who no longer have a reason to try to fool themselves.

Just to clarify- you honestly believe his jump shooting mechanics didn't change from college to pro? If that's not what you're saying (I sure hope not) then you are validating exactly what people are speculating about. It's pretty clear to me and others that he is a competent jump shot away from being a very good player.

[PlatinumState]

I can already see him not playing preseason, or until the All Star break while Orlando makes weird statements regarding him not playing. Even if he plays at the start of season, there's no chance in hell he strings together more than 10 games without being out a month after that.
I want him to prove everyone wrong but after everything that happened since he got to the NBA I dont see him playing more than 30 games next season

[LloydFree]

Every other NBA player's injury happens with a how, a where, and a when.

All except Markelle Fultz. Not a single one of those questions can be answered by anyone on this entire planet. Not how, not where, not when.

Instead of answers to those questions, we have people on RealGM lying to themselves about a BMX accident and shoulder injury and TOS and other things that they truly know, deep down, never happened. The reason for that kind of self-delusion is the real mystery in this situation.

That's the thing that I find the most perplexing. The effort that some people put into trying make excuses for Fultz's struggles, instead of just admitting he's garbage, and moving on. Especially ridiculous from 76ers fans who no longer have a reason to try to fool themselves.

Just to clarify- you honestly believe his jump shooting mechanics didn't change from college to pro? If that's not what you're saying (I sure hope not) then you are validating exactly what people are speculating about. It's pretty clear to me and others that he is a competent jump shot away from being a very good player.

You don't need any more clarification of my position on Fultz. You know I didn't think he was anything special when he was in college, before he got scared to fail (the "yips") in 76ers pre-season.

I'll take the bait though. I thought he was a worse shooting, OJ Mayo as a prospect. An average athlete, who was a below average shooter, that went to a school that wouldn't be in the limelight, but would allow him to hold the ball long enough to fool people into believing he would be worthy of keeping his #1 status. He was packaged as a PG with a longer than average wingspan, not much different than players like Frank N and Dante Exum who fooled people into this big PG nonsense, by not allowing themselves to look like the poor shooting, average athlete, SG's they were.

If this bum would've went to Kentucky or Duke, his lack of talent (and more likely his cowardice) would've been exposed in scrimmages before the college season began and he'd have been exposed like a Skal Labissere.

[michaelm]

Only a could weeks till preseason. We will see how he looks then.

Exactly.

[michaelm]

I can already see him not playing preseason, or until the All Star break while Orlando makes weird statements regarding him not playing. Even if he plays at the start of season, there's no chance in hell he strings together more than 10 games without being out a month after that.
I want him to prove everyone wrong but after everything that happened since he got to the NBA I dont see him playing more than 30 games next season

Then you guys will be proven correct. The dispute is with him being already condemned for this before it has occurred.

[michaelm]

That's the thing that I find the most perplexing. The effort that some people put into trying make excuses for Fultz's struggles, instead of just admitting he's garbage, and moving on. Especially ridiculous from 76ers fans who no longer have a reason to try to fool themselves.

Just to clarify- you honestly believe his jump shooting mechanics didn't change from college to pro? If that's not what you're saying (I sure hope not) then you are validating exactly what people are speculating about. It's pretty clear to me and others that he is a competent jump shot away from being a very good player.

You don't need any more clarification of my position on Fultz. You know I didn't think he was anything special when he was in college, before he got scared to fail (the "yips") in 76ers pre-season.

I'll take the bait though. I thought he was a worse shooting, OJ Mayo as a prospect. An average athlete, who was a below average shooter, that went to a school that wouldn't be in the limelight, but would allow him to hold the ball long enough to fool people into believing he would be worthy of keeping his #1 status. He was packaged as a PG with a longer than average wingspan, not much different than players like Frank N and Dante Exum who fooled people into this big PG nonsense, by not allowing themselves to look like the poor shooting, average athlete, SG's they were.

If this bum would've went to Kentucky or Duke, his lack of talent (and more likely his cowardice) would've been exposed in scrimmages before the college season began and he'd have been exposed like a Skal Labissere.

Sure, I think he was over-rated pre-draft regardless of whether he suffered a subsequent injury, it must have been immensely frustrating for Sixers fans to watch Tatum particularly in his rookie season form who would have been a perfect fit and whom the Sixers could have had instead.

[GeorgeMarcus]

That's the thing that I find the most perplexing. The effort that some people put into trying make excuses for Fultz's struggles, instead of just admitting he's garbage, and moving on. Especially ridiculous from 76ers fans who no longer have a reason to try to fool themselves.

Just to clarify- you honestly believe his jump shooting mechanics didn't change from college to pro? If that's not what you're saying (I sure hope not) then you are validating exactly what people are speculating about. It's pretty clear to me and others that he is a competent jump shot away from being a very good player.

You don't need any more clarification of my position on Fultz. You know I didn't think he was anything special when he was in college, before he got scared to fail (the "yips") in 76ers pre-season.

I'll take the bait though. I thought he was a worse shooting, OJ Mayo as a prospect. An average athlete, who was a below average shooter, that went to a school that wouldn't be in the limelight, but would allow him to hold the ball long enough to fool people into believing he would be worthy of keeping his #1 status. He was packaged as a PG with a longer than average wingspan, not much different than players like Frank N and Dante Exum who fooled people into this big PG nonsense, by not allowing themselves to look like the poor shooting, average athlete, SG's they were.

If this bum would've went to Kentucky or Duke, his lack of talent (and more likely his cowardice) would've been exposed in scrimmages before the college season began and he'd have been exposed like a Skal Labissere.

The question wasn't how good of a shooter you believe he was in college. The question was whether or not you believe his mechanics changed between his time in Washington and his time with the Sixers. I would argue pretty clearly they have. For that reason alone it doesn't make sense to employ the "I knew he sucked" argument because you are ignoring the bulk of the controversy: the sudden obstruction of his jump shot. The guy shot 41.3% from 3pt during college (slightly better than college Mayo) on 5 attempts per game, so let's not pretend like it was regarded as a weakness in his game.

[NotACat]

https://streamable.com/gb2x2

[LloydFree]

Just to clarify- you honestly believe his jump shooting mechanics didn't change from college to pro? If that's not what you're saying (I sure hope not) then you are validating exactly what people are speculating about. It's pretty clear to me and others that he is a competent jump shot away from being a very good player.

You don't need any more clarification of my position on Fultz. You know I didn't think he was anything special when he was in college, before he got scared to fail (the "yips") in 76ers pre-season.

I'll take the bait though. I thought he was a worse shooting, OJ Mayo as a prospect. An average athlete, who was a below average shooter, that went to a school that wouldn't be in the limelight, but would allow him to hold the ball long enough to fool people into believing he would be worthy of keeping his #1 status. He was packaged as a PG with a longer than average wingspan, not much different than players like Frank N and Dante Exum who fooled people into this big PG nonsense, by not allowing themselves to look like the poor shooting, average athlete, SG's they were.

If this bum would've went to Kentucky or Duke, his lack of talent (and more likely his cowardice) would've been exposed in scrimmages before the college season began and he'd have been exposed like a Skal Labissere.

The question wasn't how good of a shooter you believe he was in college. The question was whether or not you believe his mechanics changed between his time in Washington and his time with the Sixers. I would argue pretty clearly they have. For that reason alone it doesn't make sense to employ the "I knew he sucked" argument because you are ignoring the bulk of the controversy: the sudden obstruction of his jump shot. The guy shot 41.3% from 3pt during college (slightly better than college Mayo) on 5 attempts per game, so let's not pretend like it was regarded as a weakness in his game.

This bum was a known poor shooter coming out of HS, and he was a 60% FT shooter in college. People who don't know any better, cite college 3pt% when talking prospects. He never was a good shooter. And he magically gets a more pronounced hitch any time he has a bad game or it looks like he's about to be benched.

Either way I'm tired of talking about how good or bad Fultz was as a prospect with the last three guys alive, who won't admit that their original thoughts of Fultz's talent, were wrong. The rest of the closet cases on the 76ers board either stopped posting or changed their handle.

[GeorgeMarcus]

You don't need any more clarification of my position on Fultz. You know I didn't think he was anything special when he was in college, before he got scared to fail (the "yips") in 76ers pre-season.

I'll take the bait though. I thought he was a worse shooting, OJ Mayo as a prospect. An average athlete, who was a below average shooter, that went to a school that wouldn't be in the limelight, but would allow him to hold the ball long enough to fool people into believing he would be worthy of keeping his #1 status. He was packaged as a PG with a longer than average wingspan, not much different than players like Frank N and Dante Exum who fooled people into this big PG nonsense, by not allowing themselves to look like the poor shooting, average athlete, SG's they were.

If this bum would've went to Kentucky or Duke, his lack of talent (and more likely his cowardice) would've been exposed in scrimmages before the college season began and he'd have been exposed like a Skal Labissere.

The question wasn't how good of a shooter you believe he was in college. The question was whether or not you believe his mechanics changed between his time in Washington and his time with the Sixers. I would argue pretty clearly they have. For that reason alone it doesn't make sense to employ the "I knew he sucked" argument because you are ignoring the bulk of the controversy: the sudden obstruction of his jump shot. The guy shot 41.3% from 3pt during college (slightly better than college Mayo) on 5 attempts per game, so let's not pretend like it was regarded as a weakness in his game.

This bum was a known poor shooter coming out of HS, and he was a 60% FT shooter in college. People who don't know any better, cite college 3pt% when talking prospects. He never was a good shooter. And he magically gets a more pronounced hitch any time he has a bad game or it looks like he's about to be benched.

Either way I'm tired of talking about how good or bad Fultz was as a prospect with the last three guys alive, who won't admit that their original thoughts of Fultz's talent, were wrong. The rest of the closet cases on the 76ers board either stopped posting or changed their handle.

You show your cards when you start throwing around the word "bum", as if the worst case scenario wasn't being a bad basketball player by NBA standards I'm a bad basketball player by NBA standards- am I a bum?

College 3pt% is obviously relevant to his jump shooting ability. It's not like I specified NBA 3pt shooting. You are evading the question I asked because we both know what the answer would signify. Luckily for you I am done talking about this as well, at least with those unwilling to separate emotion from logical assessment.

[michaelm]

If you like your Fultz excuses guess what you get to keep your Fultz excuses!

All this speculation/talk about doctor patient confidentiality and doctor(s) not wanting to be identified is just hogwash. But carry on. i guess this is what the off season is about.

Why exactly is it hogwash ?.

What is hogwash imo is the again imo fairly obsessive need to make a final judgement now on a guy who is barely out of his teens. As I have said I can cite a closely parallel situation where majority opinion was even more strongly that a competitor’s issues were psychological. All of them were wrong.

Like I said if you want your excuses you get to keep your excuses....have a nice day mi amigo.

Casey Stoner in motogp bike racing 2010-2011.

I totally understand people being annoyed that the Sixers wasted a number 1 draft pick on Fultz but the possibility exists he has an actual health issue as his I gather fairly highly reputed shooting coach eventually concluded. Sure he could alternatively have the yips which when it comes down to it is also a physical issue.

What happens is that in a case like Fultz’s people start to relate what he is being paid to their own situation. He isn’t responsible for how the NBA has evolved into involving such intrinsically ridiculous amounts of money, but sure managers try to game the system to extract as much of that money as they can. If he is an accomplice in a scam with his manager then he deserves all the condemnation he is getting and more, but I still think his desire is to be a successful elite basketballer.

Time will tell, and fairly soon. Whatever his issues if they continue for another year he is done and the Magic will have made an unsuccessful gamble, a gamble they made without much to lose though as had been said.

[BullyKing]

What I find incredible is the vitriolic mockery and insistence that anyone that supports or believes in Markelle Fultz is an idiot because they have no medical grounds upon which to base their thoughts, however, the same rabid detractors have zero medical education and zero evidence to support their position either. It’s really great especially when you combine the clear and evident “I hope he never works out” bias from Sixers fans that seems to cause them to viciously attack both Fultz and anyone who dares to say he has a chance to meet his potential.

Shoot, now we’re arguing that he “fooled” every NBA scout and prospect reporting site and that he isn’t even an NBA level athlete. Seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

This is nonsense. The Sixers fans that are viciously attacking him now are the same guys who were viciously attacking him when he was a Sixer. Most Sixers fans wish the kid the best and at most just caution Magic fans to not get too invested in every positive "update" as we regrettably did.

[basketballRob]

You don't need any more clarification of my position on Fultz. You know I didn't think he was anything special when he was in college, before he got scared to fail (the "yips") in 76ers pre-season.

I'll take the bait though. I thought he was a worse shooting, OJ Mayo as a prospect. An average athlete, who was a below average shooter, that went to a school that wouldn't be in the limelight, but would allow him to hold the ball long enough to fool people into believing he would be worthy of keeping his #1 status. He was packaged as a PG with a longer than average wingspan, not much different than players like Frank N and Dante Exum who fooled people into this big PG nonsense, by not allowing themselves to look like the poor shooting, average athlete, SG's they were.

If this bum would've went to Kentucky or Duke, his lack of talent (and more likely his cowardice) would've been exposed in scrimmages before the college season began and he'd have been exposed like a Skal Labissere.

The question wasn't how good of a shooter you believe he was in college. The question was whether or not you believe his mechanics changed between his time in Washington and his time with the Sixers. I would argue pretty clearly they have. For that reason alone it doesn't make sense to employ the "I knew he sucked" argument because you are ignoring the bulk of the controversy: the sudden obstruction of his jump shot. The guy shot 41.3% from 3pt during college (slightly better than college Mayo) on 5 attempts per game, so let's not pretend like it was regarded as a weakness in his game.

This bum was a known poor shooter coming out of HS, and he was a 60% FT shooter in college. People who don't know any better, cite college 3pt% when talking prospects. He never was a good shooter. And he magically gets a more pronounced hitch any time he has a bad game or it looks like he's about to be benched.

Either way I'm tired of talking about how good or bad Fultz was as a prospect with the last three guys alive, who won't admit that their original thoughts of Fultz's talent, were wrong. The rest of the closet cases on the 76ers board either stopped posting or changed their handle.

Hopefully he's working out the kinks this year. Listening to the radio station in hear in Orlando yesterday, they said, he's been working out all year with two developmental coaches from the Magic. They also see him as the guy with the most upside out of the young players on the Magic roster.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[GeorgeMarcus]

The question wasn't how good of a shooter you believe he was in college. The question was whether or not you believe his mechanics changed between his time in Washington and his time with the Sixers. I would argue pretty clearly they have. For that reason alone it doesn't make sense to employ the "I knew he sucked" argument because you are ignoring the bulk of the controversy: the sudden obstruction of his jump shot. The guy shot 41.3% from 3pt during college (slightly better than college Mayo) on 5 attempts per game, so let's not pretend like it was regarded as a weakness in his game.

This bum was a known poor shooter coming out of HS, and he was a 60% FT shooter in college. People who don't know any better, cite college 3pt% when talking prospects. He never was a good shooter. And he magically gets a more pronounced hitch any time he has a bad game or it looks like he's about to be benched.

Either way I'm tired of talking about how good or bad Fultz was as a prospect with the last three guys alive, who won't admit that their original thoughts of Fultz's talent, were wrong. The rest of the closet cases on the 76ers board either stopped posting or changed their handle.

Hopefully he's working out the kinks this year. Listening to the radio station in hear in Orlando yesterday, they said, he's been working out all year with two developmental coaches from the Magic. They also see him as the guy with the most upside out of the young players on the Magic roster.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

That's a big statement with a guy like Isaac on the roster. I'm definitely pulling for Markelle and hoping the positive commentary is legit.

[Sixerscan]

When people make claims, stated as facts, that contradict not just doctors but specialists in their field...that's when things have gone a bit far.



This for example goes so far as to claim that a manager forced a player to quit on a team, they found a doctor to make a false claim, and did all of this because...well we have no real idea why.

Then we have comments where someone claims that this absolutely is a mental condition....which they use effectively as if mental problems cannot be addressed with doctors (they can btw). And again they make this claim not stated as speculation but stating it as an absolute fact.

It's a message board. This is all speculation because none of us really know. We're not Fultz, his doctors or work for the Magic or Sixers. However that's okay because this is message board and that's what people do here...discuss the NBA.

Should comments about this story be taken as fact? No, of course not, but it doesn't hurt for anyone to have opinions on what they think might be the real story.

From an outside perspective his situation is questionable so people are bound to talk about it.

Speculation should be based on reasonable information. When you lack any real details, it's best to not speculate. Worse of course are those who seem to take pleasure in any setback that happens to this kid, but that's a whole other topic.

I do feel however that there is something very wrong culturally in a society that feels non experts can not only question experts without a basis for the question, but to make up their own ideas and present them as facts equal to that of experts.

Most people here likely have watched thousands of not tens of thousands of hours of basketball, looked at countless basketball stats, and actually have enough knowledge about the sport to make very reasonable questions about basketball management. You don't have to be a GM to know a subject extremely well. If we had a group of medical enthusiasts who study medicine, rehabilitation, mental conditions, etc to the same levels then perhaps such speculation would be interest and useful. That doesn't appear to be the case here. People can't even understand that an outside specialist can't advertise they're the one who diagnosed a pro athlete...

Not questioning experts, questioning whether an expert diagnosed him or if it was something more nebulous that his agent ran with.

Did you follow the whole situation closely or did you just start paying attention when he was traded to your team? There's tons of examples of misleading information coming out of his camp. There's been a constant cycle of them having some flimsy story, that story getting blown up and everyone involved looking like they have no idea what they're doing. You tell by the end the Sixers and even the media around the team just gave up and didn't want to deal with the next weird situation. People act like there's a bunch of hate and I'm sure you can find examples of that in this thread and on the internet in general, but the fact is most people just wanted it to end and/or feel bad for the guy.