2019-20 Offseason Thread

[Wo1verine]

Atkins back to the bargain bin sounds like

Don’t want any of those guys should just tank and be the worst possible instead of trying for .500 give or take also not a fan of signing guys who don’t have a future with us like Miley and Wood etc

We’ll probably never sign anyone meaningful - Pretty soon young studs will be getting more expensive and we’ll have less flexibility and more excuses.

Find it embarrassing that the richest FA deal this team has ever inked was AJ many years ago on this day for a lousy $55M

[BigLeagueChew]

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"Going for starters and relievers then position players"

[Schad]

I'm fascinated by the possibility of the Angels signing Cole, not just because it keeps him away from the Yankees, but because that team could have one of the most fearsome trios of elite talent that the baseball world has seen in years and also be a complete afterthought. The best hitter in baseball, probably ever! The best pitcher in baseball! The best two-way player in nearly a century! An uphill battle for a Wild Card spot!

[Wo1verine]

There has been a lot of talk about the Jays, but not a lot of people taking them seriously. One prevailing thought at these winter meetings was expressed by ESPN’s Jeff Passan, who suggested the industry tends to collectively nod and say “uh huh” when the Blue Jays keep telling people their payroll is going up. The skepticism surrounding this team’s willingness to make a major move runs deep. People will believe it when they see it. Not before.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2019/12/09/blue-jays-continue-to-find-themselves-lost-in-the-arms-race.html

[Wo1verine]

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[polo007]

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[metafisical]

Work out something with Shoemaker, quickly sign Roark and just run with that. Who are we fooling regarding Ryu?

[fbalmeida]

I've always been highly skeptical that the Jays would in fact be able to build a competitive rotation without overpaying.

Which is mainly why I wanted to retain Stroman. At any rate, the difficulty in landing free agent pitchers, paradoxically makes the Stroman trade make even more sense, as much as it pained me to see him leave. If you can't sign 'em, then front load the talent and wait.

[The_Hater]

Atkins back to the bargain bin sounds like

Don’t want any of those guys should just tank and be the worst possible instead of trying for .500 give or take also not a fan of signing guys who don’t have a future with us like Miley and Wood etc

We’ll probably never sign anyone meaningful - Pretty soon young studs will be getting more expensive and we’ll have less flexibility and more excuses.

Find it embarrassing that the richest FA deal this team has ever inked was AJ many years ago on this day for a lousy $55M

Russell Martin for $80+ million was bigger off the top of my head. And those Burnett/BJ Ryan deals were large for that particular market.

No matter who you sign for big money, every team is still looking for bargains, even the Yankees. (Gio Urshela anyone?) There’s just too many roster spots to fill.

As for spending money, the Jays payroll was so huge the last few years I’m not sure why this would be a complaint already? They spent while they contended and unfortunately for us, for 2 seasons beyond that point. But most of these FA contracts don’t end up being particularly good. As it is, they traded for Tulo’s albatross. Martin had to be salary dumped. They dodged a huge bullet with Bautista. Are you suggesting the Jays just throw money at anyone and everyone? We could certainly take on Chris Davis from the Orioles if we wanted to spend.

If anything has been proven over the past 30+ years it’s that big name free agents is not the ticket to winning. Bryce Harper and Manny Machado didn’t even make the playoffs last season after signing 2 of the biggest contracts in MLB history.

[Brinbe]

the payroll was huge because of rogers wanting to extend a competitive window that should've been closed earlier because they're idiots and now they wanna be cheap when they should spend. just a fundamental misunderstanding of the realities of this team because they just care about short-term attendance and revenue.

this is the problem with having people clueless about sports making the budgets and demands, you will constantly have illogical planning and mediocre results.

it's really a lot like being owned by james dolan, sans the ugly sexual harassment issues/local media vendettas, in that respect.

that being said, i don't think ross atkins is a good GM overall (am i supposed to be impressed that he's made good picks after drafting high every year?) or am confident that he's made us a better team considering the assets we had when he and shapiro started here.

the kids are here, the money is available before those kids all get raises, spend it now!

let's remind ourselves of what we've put up with here



you really trust these guys to compete with the yankees/sox/rays!?

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read this word salad because it perfectly sums things up.

I miss AA

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[Wo1verine]

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SAN DIEGO – Let’s not do this until the conclusion that feels inevitable arrives in mid-January, and the Toronto Blue Jays make some underwhelming mid-to-lower tier starter signings and pat themselves on the back for staying disciplined and true to their valuations.

Because at the moment they’re talking to everyone, considering everything, throwing out offers, and that’s where things seem headed. Every new pitcher signing brings a fresh round of leaks on how they were in on the guy, but the fact remains nothing they’ve done has been compelling enough to land the player.

One frustrated agent lamented how the Blue Jays “are 90 per cent due diligence that doesn’t go anywhere.”

That’s excessively harsh – they legitimately tried on Kyle Gibson, at minimum – but it demonstrates how their approach is leaving people that talk to them legitimately unclear about their true intentions.

[Wo1verine]

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WTF kind of answer is this?

[rarefind]

lol Jays landing JA Happ would be remarkably funny.

[polo007]

lol Jays landing JA Happ would be remarkably funny.

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[youreachiteach]

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WTF kind of answer is this?

It means:

Getting players in free agency is difficult for us but not impossible. We've got some more money but we're not saying how much or who we're targeting (because that would be dumb). More likely we'll probably go the trade route or the garbage bin but we don't want to announce that. It depends, but we're looking at everything. We are staying open on all fronts and we'll see.

I mean, spelling it out doesn't sound better and frankly would be a PR nightmare. He's essentially being non-committal, which is his job. He probably needs to be even more non-committal or simply word what he says more simply/easily.

Like, "We are open to all possibilities and are being aggressive with free agents" would be a smarter way to put it. He's getting asked questions in such a way that he needs to elaborate, but he can't. So you end up with some GMbabblespeak to give a non-answer. he should just declined comment if he was asked anything further, citing the need for privacy during the process.

Anyway, nothing really to see here, we all know this already.

[Schad]

the payroll was huge because of rogers wanting to extend a competitive window that should've been closed earlier because they're idiots and now they wanna be cheap when they should spend. just a fundamental misunderstanding of the realities of this team because they just care about short-term attendance and revenue.

We ran the payroll up to $137m before we were competitive. It's true that we didn't max it out until attendance had boomed, but Rogers will spend if it makes them money. While I'm no fan of our corporate overlords, they're hardly alone there...there aren't many teams that spend if it loses them money.

that being said, i don't think ross atkins is a good GM overall (am i supposed to be impressed that he's made good picks after drafting high every year?) or am confident that he's made us a better team considering the assets we had when he and shapiro started here.

One, drafting higher in baseball is far less of a leg up than in basketball. Two, he hasn't drafted high every year. During his tenure, we've had five first rounders: 21st, 28th (comp pick), 22nd, 12th, 11th.

[BigLeagueChew]

Russell Martin was brought up by The_Hater ^. He was the final piece and our largest actual signing. Nearly everyone else was brought in via trade but AA is looked at as a good GM by many Jays fans. Shatkins hasn't really had the opportunity yet.

AA and Martin probably crossed paths once or twice in Montreal before getting him and I thought it was weird he signed with the Pirates for just 2 years, perhaps was told we need some time to get better but we want to sign you, and only took 2 years with the Pirates then joined us. That was a huge contract but probably worth it.

[Brinbe]

the payroll was huge because of rogers wanting to extend a competitive window that should've been closed earlier because they're idiots and now they wanna be cheap when they should spend. just a fundamental misunderstanding of the realities of this team because they just care about short-term attendance and revenue.

We ran the payroll up to $137m before we were competitive. It's true that we didn't max it out until attendance had boomed, but Rogers will spend if it makes them money. While I'm no fan of our corporate overlords, they're hardly alone there...there aren't many teams that spend if it loses them money.

that being said, i don't think ross atkins is a good GM overall (am i supposed to be impressed that he's made good picks after drafting high every year?) or am confident that he's made us a better team considering the assets we had when he and shapiro started here.

One, drafting higher in baseball is far less of a leg up than in basketball. Two, he hasn't drafted high every year. During his tenure, we've had five first rounders: 21st, 28th (comp pick), 22nd, 12th, 11th.

i never said rogers were cheap or that they wouldn't ever spend. so, you're missing the mark there. i'm saying they don't know what the hell they're doing. giving a directive of competing with a rapidly aging core is part of that. as well as running around aimlessly in this fa market.

and i think drafting high in baseball has become more of a sure thing. and they've done an okay to good job drafting (how much of that is cherington though?) and the arms on the way should hopefully be decent. but being a good gm means more than just drafting well. BC arguably drafted well too. it was everything else that was trash. same thing here too.

of course we gotta wait for this all to play out. but its a worrisome pattern.

[Wo1verine]

lol Jays landing JA Happ would be remarkably funny.

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For Drury and Billy? lmao
Honestly though Happ is trash wouldn't touch him without a top prospect coming back.

Also meant AJ as largest FA SP deal a million years ago not overall.

[agkagk]

There has been a lot of talk about the Jays, but not a lot of people taking them seriously. One prevailing thought at these winter meetings was expressed by ESPN’s Jeff Passan, who suggested the industry tends to collectively nod and say “uh huh” when the Blue Jays keep telling people their payroll is going up. The skepticism surrounding this team’s willingness to make a major move runs deep. People will believe it when they see it. Not before.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2019/12/09/blue-jays-continue-to-find-themselves-lost-in-the-arms-race.html

I grew tired of this game years ago.

For basically 17 of the last 20 off seasons, Rogers corporate stooges write bs stories about all the free agents they’re in on.

It’s really laughable.

That’s said, why would a top free agent sign here unless the contract is stupidly more than other teams.

There are a tonne of young veteran former top prospect sp’s on the market.

Between taijuan Walker, Alex wood, gausman, Martin Perez, Michael wacha and about another half dozen arms there must be a couple of all star seasons out there.

I know these guys have underachieved or are injury risks, but their age and pedigree fit our timeframe.

What are the chances wacha and taijuan would sign incentive laden long term deals?