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Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#201 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:19 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:My humble suggestion is that:

those posters who are optimistic that this team can make the playoffs will revise their thinking and be happy to angle for the lottery if midway through the season it becomes apparent that this team is really not as good as they thought and that the young guys need another year to be ready to make that leap

and

those posters who believe this team has little to no chance to make the playoffs and who are convinced that tanking is the best approach to this season will revise their thinking and be happy to be doing well should the team actually prove to be better than they thought and our young guys take big steps towards success

any chance y'all can do that instead of us having a damn war all season? let's see what happens and hope for the best, whether it is a high lottery pick or a playoff spot.


its probably somewhere in the middle haha. i think giving the extreme answer gives some of this fanbase the delusion of "being right" for some reason. its either my way or the highway approach lmao.
raf1995 wrote:I just don’t think he has that kind of potential. I think we will regret not trading him for a haul in a few years when he’s a mid-tier starter with nice playmaking and defense and a shaky jumper.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#202 » by tecumseh18 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:20 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:stop this stupid in-fighting because no-one really will know where this team will place without a game being played. team dynamics are different, new players, and Masai basically said don't expect them to be a top team this year just yet - because of the young core. Raptors COULD surprise us with the 4 seed - or be realistically be a 5th seed or be downtrodden to the 10th seed because of injuries/talent/inexperience etc.


Exactly. Especially stop with the in-fighting because it's a great result either way - top four/five playoff seed or top ten draft pick. In a double cohort draft year, even the mushy middle of the draft may yield a gem.

I found out this past playoffs that I just like watching basketball without expectations or desperation. Game 7 against the Celtics was no fun. So I look forward to enjoying this season and watching the yutes develop.

My prediction: Raps will finish top 6 in the East if we keep Dragic (who throughout his entire career has only been a notch behind Lowry as a player - I remember this board comparing them on the Rockets). If Raps trade him for undrafted, unproven guys like Moses Brown, then the tank is on. Fine by me either way.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#203 » by ash_k » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:38 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
ash_k wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
we heard you the first time. stop repeating yourself like it means anything.

being .500 at the 4th seed, at the halfway point doesn't mean anything so stop trying to push that agenda because a player said something so obvious doesn't mean it would necessarily be true over the course of the season. Everyone on the team got covid. AND the real physical injuries to OG/Siakam/FVV down the stretch of the season - Raptors would have gotten swept in the first round/play-in because of those factors. AND Lowry is gone - you know, the real emotional and leader of the team last year.

but i have no doubt FVV and Siakam are the new mantle of leadership and with OG being the non-verbal leader with the Kawhi like - letting - his - game - do - all - the - talking.

if Raptors are going to be the "true" raptors - and show us if they are a legit playoff team - with such a young core, this will be the year. it doesn't matter what they said last year. stop this stupid in-fighting because no-one really will know where this team will place without a game being played. team dynamics are different, new players, and Masai basically said don't expect them to be a top team this year just yet - because of the young core. Raptors COULD surprise us with the 4 seed - or be realistically be a 5th seed or be downtrodden to the 10th seed because of injuries/talent/inexperience etc.

so your point is nobody knows anything because we cant read the future and cant use last year while saying that we would have gotten SWEPT in the first round/play-in. But then in the future "Raps COULD surprise us with the 4 seed - or be realistically be a 5th seed". Damn, which one is it? REalistically 5th seed sounds like a great RETOOL.

No Masai said " WE ARE NOT A 'NOW' TEAM" with our players developing. (GTJr &OG have not reached their full potential).


i think you just answered your own question. it could be anything of the above. i gave it a range of basically the entire eastern conference standings. :lol: you sound like you're too obsessed about being right than anything or something like that.

OR you can choose to let other posters live in alternative reality that a team that was 4th seed playing nothing but roadgames will turn into a 10th seed/tanking/rebuilding the following season. Even got its leader(FVV) reminding you of that reality but posters still decide to remain in that alternative reality (kind of concerning to tell you the truth). If that means that "I am too obsessed about being right than anything or something like that" then I am all for it :lol:
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#204 » by ATLTimekeeper » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:41 pm

aminiaturebuddha wrote:I'm just curious - how many people commenting on here actually listened to the CBC podcast where Masai made this comment?

It seems as though people are making a lot of inferences about what he might have meant from this one quote, but much of that is stuff that didn't come through for me at all based upon the full context of the conversation.


I listened to the interview and the question posed and I think the quote is being interpreted accurately here. Young teams tend to lose, and he's fielded a mostly young team. He's just stating the obvious.

But, this team is likely going to win in the 40s whether he wants them to finish last or not. And that will be a huge momentum boost for the franchise.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#205 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:48 pm

ash_k wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
ash_k wrote:so your point is nobody knows anything because we cant read the future and cant use last year while saying that we would have gotten SWEPT in the first round/play-in. But then in the future "Raps COULD surprise us with the 4 seed - or be realistically be a 5th seed". Damn, which one is it? REalistically 5th seed sounds like a great RETOOL.

No Masai said " WE ARE NOT A 'NOW' TEAM" with our players developing. (GTJr &OG have not reached their full potential).


i think you just answered your own question. it could be anything of the above. i gave it a range of basically the entire eastern conference standings. :lol: you sound like you're too obsessed about being right than anything or something like that.

OR you can choose to let other posters live in alternative reality that a team that was 4th seed playing nothing but roadgames will turn into a 10th seed/tanking/rebuilding the following season. Even got its leader(FVV) reminding you of that reality but posters still decide to remain in that alternative reality (kind of concerning to tell you the truth). If that means that "I am too obsessed about being right than anything or something like that" then I am all for it :lol:


:crazy:
raf1995 wrote:I just don’t think he has that kind of potential. I think we will regret not trading him for a haul in a few years when he’s a mid-tier starter with nice playmaking and defense and a shaky jumper.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#206 » by Jerry Lucas » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:53 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:stop this stupid in-fighting because no-one really will know where this team will place without a game being played. team dynamics are different, new players, and Masai basically said don't expect them to be a top team this year just yet - because of the young core. Raptors COULD surprise us with the 4 seed - or be realistically be a 5th seed or be downtrodden to the 10th seed because of injuries/talent/inexperience etc.


Exactly. Especially stop with the in-fighting because it's a great result either way - top four/five playoff seed or top ten draft pick. In a double cohort draft year, even the mushy middle of the draft may yield a gem.

I found out this past playoffs that I just like watching basketball without expectations or desperation. Game 7 against the Celtics was no fun. So I look forward to enjoying this season and watching the yutes develop.

My prediction: Raps will finish top 6 in the East if we keep Dragic (who throughout his entire career has only been a notch behind Lowry as a player - I remember this board comparing them on the Rockets). If Raps trade him for undrafted, unproven guys like Moses Brown, then the tank is on. Fine by me either way.

IIRC isn't this year no longer a double cohort year because they didn't end up changing the one and done draft rules yet?
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#207 » by ash_k » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:53 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
ash_k wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
i think you just answered your own question. it could be anything of the above. i gave it a range of basically the entire eastern conference standings. :lol: you sound like you're too obsessed about being right than anything or something like that.

OR you can choose to let other posters live in alternative reality that a team that was 4th seed playing nothing but roadgames will turn into a 10th seed/tanking/rebuilding the following season. Even got its leader(FVV) reminding you of that reality but posters still decide to remain in that alternative reality (kind of concerning to tell you the truth). If that means that "I am too obsessed about being right than anything or something like that" then I am all for it :lol:


:crazy:

what can I tell you...they are saying 30 wins and back in the lottery like we were the Sacramento Kings or Chicago Bulls last season.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#208 » by Gavin_TDThree » Thu Sep 9, 2021 2:02 pm

I can live with growing pains for sure. Next years draft has some good prospects as well. If we win 30-35 games but see real growth from our players I'd consider it a good season. I want to see Flynn take that next step as a playmaker, OG taking over a game on offence, GTJ growing as a scorer, and Barnes/Achuiwa getting a ton of minutes.







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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#209 » by Tofubeque » Thu Sep 9, 2021 2:18 pm

aminiaturebuddha wrote:I'm just curious - how many people commenting on here actually listened to the CBC podcast where Masai made this comment?

It seems as though people are making a lot of inferences about what he might have meant from this one quote, but much of that is stuff that didn't come through for me at all based upon the full context of the conversation.


That one quote is all he really said about this year's Raptors team. The rest of the interview was catching up on the last few years of his career, social issues, African basketball, the championship etc.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#210 » by JShuttlesworth » Thu Sep 9, 2021 2:54 pm

I agree with Masai. Young, inexperienced players make mistakes, they don't know how to close out games.

I remember reading the over/under thread with so many people claiming we're going to win 45+ games, I just don't see it.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#211 » by GM89 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 3:11 pm

Think raps will be somewhere between 6-8th seed this year.

I only see 5 teams definitely being 100% better than us: Nets, Bucks, Miami, 76ers and Boston.

Bulls, Pacers, and Knicks don't scare me.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#212 » by Mark_83 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 3:13 pm

720 wrote:
Mark_83 wrote:Can wait to start scouting lottery prospects. This draft doesn't look as deep as the last one but it's heavy at the top imo.

Yup, 7-8 solid guys at the top and multiple guys with franchise player type vibes in the top 5.

I really want Hardy or Griffin. Griffin already has the connection to us with his pops, he's got the elite measurables for a SG/SF and has that alpha mentality and defensive mindset. Him or Hardy to replace GTJ as a starter eventually would give us a beastly starting 5.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#213 » by Ganjamayne » Thu Sep 9, 2021 3:48 pm

Damn am I the only one optimistic for this year? We played better when we replaced Baynes with Birch. We also seemed to string more wins when Lowry was sitting/out. We have decent depth that's versatile this year, it'll be fun and we should win at least 45 games imo. Not to mention being back at home.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#214 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:07 pm

GM89 wrote:Think raps will be somewhere between 6-8th seed this year.

I only see 5 teams definitely being 100% better than us: Nets, Bucks, Miami, 76ers and Boston.

Bulls, Pacers, and Knicks don't scare me.


well its all about the schedule. its not what you think those teams scare you or not. they might just end up better than the Raptors because of an easier schedule etc.

i.e. think the Bulls end up with a better record than the Raptors, for instance, because its the regular season and the Bulls should be able score at will in regular season games. i think they will fold when it comes to playoff games because of defense.

Pacers are decent on paper. probably the same tier as the Raptors. great front court and should be getting decent backcourt play from Levert and Brogdan.

Knicks.... i don't know - they seem decent enough. they don't scare me either.
raf1995 wrote:I just don’t think he has that kind of potential. I think we will regret not trading him for a haul in a few years when he’s a mid-tier starter with nice playmaking and defense and a shaky jumper.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#215 » by Oakvillehoops » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:19 pm

Our team is basically as good as last year which if it weren’t for bad, bad luck was heading for a 5th seed with Baynes tanking away
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#216 » by Dalek » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:22 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
aminiaturebuddha wrote:I'm just curious - how many people commenting on here actually listened to the CBC podcast where Masai made this comment?

It seems as though people are making a lot of inferences about what he might have meant from this one quote, but much of that is stuff that didn't come through for me at all based upon the full context of the conversation.


I listened to the interview and the question posed and I think the quote is being interpreted accurately here. Young teams tend to lose, and he's fielded a mostly young team. He's just stating the obvious.

But, this team is likely going to win in the 40s whether he wants them to finish last or not. And that will be a huge momentum boost for the franchise.


According to https://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison, Toronto rates as the 12 youngest team in the NBA just above Boston by a month. If we drop Dragic that number might swing a bit lower.

Lakers, Heat, Brooklyn and Jazz are some of the oldest teams and I would normally say that older teams tend to go the farthest, but injuries have been hitting the NBA hard the past two seasons, and I think the more miles you have on your body the more susceptible you are to injury - so let's see how this plays out.

The quote in question has been repeated by Masai twice. In this interview and the previous press conference when he signed his contract. It is a coached statement that allows himself to spin two scenarios at the end of the year: Toronto overacheiving with a less experienced team or, missing the playoffs and giving the youth NBA experience while getting a lotto pick. It is a good hedge.

Where I call it as BS, is earlier the sentiment was, the previous season was an aberration, "blame it on Tampa because Tampa ain't Toronto." We played "82 road games." Well now that we are back in Toronto minus Lowry, suddenly we are a young team that will have growing pains. Siakam, FVV and to some extent OG were all part of a championship team, but now we need to grow.

To me, Masai is using "youth" as a crutch. This team is not talented enough, and the front office has fallen way off since the Championship era in signings, trades, the draft, etc. In a league where shooting from 3 is a premium skill, we drafted non-shooters, signed Khem Birch, traded for Precious Achuiwa while only re-signing Gary Trent Jr., who is a flawed player.

Atlanta's turnaround happened in one year because they added premium shooting at every spot while having a defensive anchor in Capela. Toronto lacks a true creator, and it has doubled down on developing players without a strong track record shooting. These growing pains are self-inflicted.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#217 » by GM89 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:22 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:well its all about the schedule. its not what you think those teams scare you or not. they might just end up better than the Raptors because of an easier schedule etc.


It doesn't matter if the schedule is weak or strong it evens out throughout the year anyway. If we are decent to good then it will show in the standings otherwise it's back to the lottery.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#218 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:30 pm

GM89 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:well its all about the schedule. its not what you think those teams scare you or not. they might just end up better than the Raptors because of an easier schedule etc.


It doesn't matter if the schedule is weak or strong it evens out throughout the year anyway. If we are decent to good then it will show in the standings otherwise it's back to the lottery.


its about timing. it doesn't even out for some teams. its about the team figuring out themselves and how fast they come together and whoever has an easier schedule down the stretch. SoS plays a factor down the stretch. Raptors aren't in tier yet where we would consider them to be a shoe-in for the playoffs. we want to see how they play as a Lowry-less led team for the first time in almost a decade.
raf1995 wrote:I just don’t think he has that kind of potential. I think we will regret not trading him for a haul in a few years when he’s a mid-tier starter with nice playmaking and defense and a shaky jumper.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#219 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:54 pm

Dalek wrote:
According to https://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison, Toronto rates as the 12 youngest team in the NBA just above Boston by a month. If we drop Dragic that number might swing a bit lower.


That's hard to comprehend. Do we have a single guy over 30 on the team? I don't think so. Dragic i guess. Then a few guys in their mid-20s and lots of youngsters. If we are the 12th youngest then that really says something about the commitment to youth around the league.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#220 » by Steelo Green » Thu Sep 9, 2021 5:06 pm

canada_dry wrote:
Steelo Green wrote:
canada_dry wrote:Well he illustrated it pretty damn well. So...


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By ignoring Duncan, Wade, Lebron…
Thats y'all issue about his thread and mischaracterizing it like u do a lot of things. Thats between u guys. What he put on this thread here did a fine job of illustrating where the other side falls. Ur guy changed the topic to try n discredit him as if he doesn't have any say about the anti tank perspective...but again he did a fine job of telling u what it was.

So lets go from there rather than changing the topic and trying to poo poo his "right" to talk from the other side, eh?

Its ur boy that absolutely mischaracterized the anti tank viewpoint, as he usually does, while also exposing himself in the process as a day 1 tanker for this coming season.

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No he literally was untruthful.

The irony of mischaracterization when that’s exactly what you’re doing.

He said no player with the top pick one a title in the last twenty years with the team that drafted him. They did. Duncan - 5 times. Lebron - 1. We even said let’s ignore Lebron’s return. The 0 times is just a blatant lie.

Being drafted in the late 90s means any titles in the early 2000s are ignored - for what? Narrative?

It’s become this constant ignore facts and then say the other person is wrong as an argument even when it’s black and white proven false I guess.

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