Porzingis + 2nd round pick for Dinwiddie, Bertans

[smoothSeph]

Probably not in the way you mean it, but I'd call showing up out of shape after signing a huge contract and playing poorly at both ends somewhat toxic. Either way, I'm glad to watch Wizards games without them.

...and Mavs fans are glad not to look at injury report nonstop. It looks like win/win situation.

True - though Bertans was anything but durable in his time with Washington.

Unprofessional for sure. Either way I hope it works out for both of us.

[Bob8]

True - though Bertans was anything but durable in his time with Washington.

Expectations for max. player are much higher. It's frustrating, if he misses game after game. Btw. Mavs have better record without him, that's probably the reason for making this trade easily. Maybe he fits better in Washington.

Fwiw, Washington has a much better record without Beal. I don't think Washington wants to give him away.

Maybe they should. Sometimes new start is needed.

Those trades are normally not that one sided like they look at the beginning. Just look at how people were making fun out of the Knicks for KP trade. It didn't end like that.

It looks to me that in this case both teams have gotten rid of players they didn't like, more than they got in return something they really wanted.

[closg00]

The Mavs got 16/5/6 out of Bertans and Dinwiddie in their first game with the Mavs. I’d say that’s a lot better than the 0/0/0 they would have got out of KP tonight.

I also don't miss the daily KP knee reports.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Our future, and we have to accept it.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Porzingis? Isn’t he that tall guy in street clothes who sits on the bench and claps for teammates?

[queridiculo]

The Mavs got 16/5/6 out of Bertans and Dinwiddie in their first game with the Mavs. I’d say that’s a lot better than the 0/0/0 they would have got out of KP tonight.

I also don't miss the daily KP knee reports.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Our future, and we have to accept it.

Sure beats watching the Latvian cone and having to endure Dinwiddie strolling up the court.

[Ruzious]

Porzingis? Isn’t he that tall guy in street clothes who sits on the bench and claps for teammates?

Not on Friday and hopefully the rest of the season. At least give him a chance.

[nate33]

Porzingis? Isn’t he that tall guy in street clothes who sits on the bench and claps for teammates?

Yeah, for about 25 games a season. However, he does play the other 55 or so games and when he does, he's a pretty solid two-way player - better than either Dinwiddie or Bertans.

[payitforward]

There's a difference between a good trade & a good player.

We made a good trade; Porzingis is not a good player.

[Mr B]

Porzingis? Isn’t he that tall guy in street clothes who sits on the bench and claps for teammates?

Yea that’s him! He also makes $31M this season to clap. Oh and and his contract increases over the next two season.

[Mr B]

Porzingis? Isn’t he that tall guy in street clothes who sits on the bench and claps for teammates?

Yeah, for about 25 games a season. However, he does play the other 55 or so games and when he does, he's a pretty solid two-way player - better than either Dinwiddie or Bertans.

He MIGHT make a brief playoff appearance too.

[Ruzious]

Ugg, now there saying he won't play on Friday - he still hasn't played in 5 on 5 practices, and he's officially day to day. And... no time table.

Expect... 2 to 3 weeks for his Wiz debut.

[nate33]

Ugg, now there saying he won't play on Friday - he still hasn't played in 5 on 5 practices, and he's officially day to day. And... no time table.

Expect... 2 to 3 weeks for his Wiz debut.

I'd be fine if he didn't play at all for the rest of the year. We need developmental time for Kispert, Avdija, Hachimura and Gafford, and we need to lose games.

[pcbothwel]

There's a difference between a good trade & a good player.

We made a good trade; Porzingis is not a good player.

You keep saying this and for the life of me I cant quite get it. He is perpetually injured and overpaid, but what is your basis for him being "Not a good player"?

Name other Bigs that you consider "Good" and better than KP.
Im looking at guys like Sabonis (Before he broke out this year), Prime Ibaka, and Christian Wood and KP was >= all of them.

[payitforward]

There's a difference between a good trade & a good player.

We made a good trade; Porzingis is not a good player.

You keep saying this and for the life of me I cant quite get it. He is perpetually injured and overpaid, but what is your basis for him being "Not a good player"?...

If you leave out scoring & rebounding, KP is just slightly above average on the rest of the standard stuff.

But, he's a below average defensive rebounder for a Center, below average offensive rebounder as well, & his career TS% is .547 -- average for a Center is .598.

That's my basis for him being "not a good player."

...Name other Bigs that you consider "Good" and better than KP.
Im looking at guys like Sabonis (Before he broke out this year), Prime Ibaka, and Christian Wood and KP was >= all of them.

KP has never had a single season anywhere near as good as Sabonis career average (which includes his awful rookie year, btw).

Wood's only had one really good season -- '19-20 w/ Detroit. KP's never played at that level. Nor has he ever approached Ibaka's first 5 years.

But it's easier than that: a random list of names of NBA bigs will always include mostly guys who put up better overall numbers than KP. Here are a few:

jarred vanderbilt, chris boucher, javale mcgee, kenrich williams, xavier tillman, isaiah hartenstein, brandon clarke, jakob poeltl, richaun holmes, robert williams, jarrett allen, kevon looney, dewayne dedmon, maxi kleber, wendell carter....

Some of those guys are better than others. But Porzingis has never had a single year as good as any of those guys' career averages.

I don't know how anyone could think he is a *good* player. In what way? Because he scores more points than an average NBA Center? Well, guess what -- he takes way more shots than average. Here's a secret -- anyone who takes more shots will score more points! KP takes way too many shots for the # of points he gets out of them.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Dinwiddie -17 in 12 minutes thus far in his Mavericks debut.

At least he's consistent

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

When you trade a problem, you usually get back someone else's problem. That's clearly the nature of this trade.

All the same, let's hope all 3 players turn things around & that we get a surprising stud with our new R2 pick.

PIF... Im curious about your high level of negativity towards KP.
I, like you, always found KP to be overrated due to his contract, health, and inefficiency... but you dont seem to argue his value, but simply think he is bad outright.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Over the last two years, he has really improved and appears to ahead of similar stretch shot blocking bigs.
Christian Wood, prime Ibaka, Myles Turner... KP appears to be as good or better than all of them.
Since he was in NYK, KP has doubled his assist with no increase to Turnovers, become a better defender, and much better at converting at/near the rim.

His 3pt% of 28% so far this year is clearly a blip. KP has fantastic form and shot 1500 3's before this year at a 36% rate and has almost 1400 FTA at a 81% rate. I see no way in which he isnt a ~35% shooter from 3 and a ~58% TS fairly regularly moving forward.

I'm not negative on Porzingis. He just isn't very good. As to your last sentence, for sure he is a 35% 3-point shooter. But, that doesn't get to a .58 TS% -- he's reached that once in 7 seasons; on his career he's at .547.

One thing you learn over the years is that the most likely thing to happen tomorrow is what happened yesterday & today. Porzingis isn't likely to become a different player, because all of a sudden he's on your team. Not to say he hasn't improved -- in fact, he's having his best year ever! It just isn't very good. Plus, he's a constant injury risk.

All the same, it was a great trade! We moved an absolutely terrible contract (which, btw, you loved when Tommy chose to do it) & a guy who wasn't working out (tho I loved him for us when Tommy chose to sign him -- I can be wrong too ). In return we got a guy with a shorter contract, we saved $$ overall, & we also got a R2 pick this year! Terrific!

The greatest predictor of future performance is of course past performance.

If Thomas Bryant looks pretty good at Center I'm pretty sure at times kristaps porzingis is going to look great at Center. My question is what would both of them look like with a beast at small forward because I'm convinced that either or both can play both Center or power forward.

Bradley at point guard ....Kyle at small forward or shooting guard....deni...with Thomas Bryant and Kristaps both in the game and have Denny be the distributor...w wBeal becoming a go to scorer

Four guys who can hit the three proficiently and Bradley Beal

Four guys all over 6'9" mostly 6'10"

Kuzma is a plus rebounder when he wants to be and Danny is a Lockdown Defender when he wants to be and kristaps porzingis can protect the rim

Thomas Bryant can be replaced with Rui Hachimura or Daniel Gafford

I haven't forgotten sixth or seventh men Kispert/KCP

[payitforward]

Well, I'm sure I'll get flak for this, but... Thomas Bryant is a far better NBA player than Porzingis.

"Oh no, no way... how could that be? Porzingis was the #3 pick in the draft or something... Bryant was a mere R2 pick...."

Not to worry: it's only numbers, & as we know, numbers are not important in basketball. For example, you can't simply look at the final score to find out who won a game. You can't look at the numbers of wins & losses & tell which teams are better & which are worse.

It's exactly the same w/ 2 players like Bryant & Porzingis. For example, if you look at 2019-20 (the only year we can compare, since KP was out the previous year & TB was out the following year), the mere fact that every 36 minutes, Bryant was the more effective rebounder & turned the ball over less -- nothing to learn from that! Or that he fouled less than KP & had more assists -- so what?

After all, Porzingis blocked .7 more shots every 36 minutes!! Not to mention that in those same 36 minutes, KP scored 3.5 more points than TB -- & the best part is this: to collect those extra 3.5 points, all he had to do was take 5.2 more shots than Bryant & 1.5 more FTAs than him. I mean... what difference does that make?

[NatP4]

Defense

[Ruzious]

Defense

Oh that's just blocks plus steals.

[9 and 20]

FNG question - Is the green for angry? Tongue in cheek when you want write some crazy talk?

NONE OF IT MAKES ANY SENSE.