Pascal is on the brink of SUPERSTARDOM...

[pingpongrac]

Siakam is an excellent player, but the early season sample size is too small to conclude anything other than a player is off to a good start.

Nurse plays his core heavy minutes, which can inflate per game stats.

Overall per 36 minutes (remember this is a small sample size of games) Siakam is 38th in points, 94th in rebounds and 45th in assists. Per 36 minutes for players who have appeared in 4 or more games he is 25th in points, 65th in rebounds and 28th in assists.

I suspect that stats for all players will normalize as the season progresses, that Siakam will be an All-Star and will have a good chance to make an All-NBA team. But I think it is good to give the season a bit to unfold before embracing early season stats as the new normal.

Per36 is even more clunky at this point though. Your "4 or more games" qualifier has players like Isaiah Joe (6 GP, 18 total minutes), Brandon Boston Jr. (5 GP, 16 total minutes) and Naz Reid (6 GP, 65 total minutes) ahead of Siakam in per36 PTS, but I don't think anyone in the world would consider any of those players a better scorer than Siakam. You also have guys like Keldon Johnson, LaVine, DeRozan, Mathurin, etc. who have comparable usage rates (2-3% lower than Siakam) and play for teams that play at a significantly faster pace (5-7 more possessions per game than Toronto) that are just eeking out Siakam by 1-2 per36 PTS. It's the same kind of thing with rebounds too; Jordan, Garuba, Muscala, Okogie, Dieng, Griffin, McGee, Jones, Tillman and Vonleh are playing ~10 MPG as generally energy bigs while there are at least 15-20 additional players ahead of Siakam in per36 REB who do barely anything outside of rebounding. And assists are no better; Dieng, NAW, Joe and Monk are just a few of the ridiculous names ahead of Siakam in per36 AST.

Overall, when you look at what Siakam has done so far this season, he has been at least a top 10 player. Outside of Luka/Giannis/LeBron/Jokic/Harden and Siakam, there aren't many players putting up (or capable of doing so) 25/8/7 type numbers.

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[old skool]

Siakam is an excellent player, but the early season sample size is too small to conclude anything other than a player is off to a good start.

Nurse plays his core heavy minutes, which can inflate per game stats.

Overall per 36 minutes (remember this is a small sample size of games) Siakam is 38th in points, 94th in rebounds and 45th in assists. Per 36 minutes for players who have appeared in 4 or more games he is 25th in points, 65th in rebounds and 28th in assists.

I suspect that stats for all players will normalize as the season progresses, that Siakam will be an All-Star and will have a good chance to make an All-NBA team. But I think it is good to give the season a bit to unfold before embracing early season stats as the new normal.

Per36 is even more clunky at this point though. Your "4 or more games" qualifier has players like Isaiah Joe (6 GP, 18 total minutes), Brandon Boston Jr. (5 GP, 16 total minutes) and Naz Reid (6 GP, 65 total minutes) ahead of Siakam in per36 PTS, but I don't think anyone in the world would consider any of those players a better scorer than Siakam. You also have guys like Keldon Johnson, LaVine, DeRozan, Mathurin, etc. who have comparable usage rates (2-3% lower than Siakam) and play for teams that play at a significantly faster pace (5-7 more possessions per game than Toronto) that are just eeking out Siakam by 1-2 per36 PTS. It's the same kind of thing with rebounds too; Jordan, Garuba, Muscala, Okogie, Dieng, Griffin, McGee, Jones, Tillman and Vonleh are playing ~10 MPG as generally energy bigs while there are at least 15-20 additional players ahead of Siakam in per36 REB who do barely anything outside of rebounding. And assists are no better; Dieng, NAW, Joe and Monk are just a few of the ridiculous names ahead of Siakam in per36 AST.

Overall, when you look at what Siakam has done so far this season, he has been at least a top 10 player. Outside of Luka/Giannis/LeBron/Jokic/Harden and Siakam, there aren't many players putting up (or capable of doing so) 25/8/7 type numbers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

You are reiterating my point. You can't celebrate the small sample break through success of a player via per game stats and then rationalize why things don't reach the same conclusion via per 36.

Siakam is a top NBA player on a upper tier NBA team. That status was established with long term success and won't be changed by short term results.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[YogurtProducer]

Siakam is an excellent player, but the early season sample size is too small to conclude anything other than a player is off to a good start.

Nurse plays his core heavy minutes, which can inflate per game stats.

Overall per 36 minutes (remember this is a small sample size of games) Siakam is 38th in points, 94th in rebounds and 45th in assists. Per 36 minutes for players who have appeared in 4 or more games he is 25th in points, 65th in rebounds and 28th in assists.

I suspect that stats for all players will normalize as the season progresses, that Siakam will be an All-Star and will have a good chance to make an All-NBA team. But I think it is good to give the season a bit to unfold before embracing early season stats as the new normal.

Per36 is even more clunky at this point though. Your "4 or more games" qualifier has players like Isaiah Joe (6 GP, 18 total minutes), Brandon Boston Jr. (5 GP, 16 total minutes) and Naz Reid (6 GP, 65 total minutes) ahead of Siakam in per36 PTS, but I don't think anyone in the world would consider any of those players a better scorer than Siakam. You also have guys like Keldon Johnson, LaVine, DeRozan, Mathurin, etc. who have comparable usage rates (2-3% lower than Siakam) and play for teams that play at a significantly faster pace (5-7 more possessions per game than Toronto) that are just eeking out Siakam by 1-2 per36 PTS. It's the same kind of thing with rebounds too; Jordan, Garuba, Muscala, Okogie, Dieng, Griffin, McGee, Jones, Tillman and Vonleh are playing ~10 MPG as generally energy bigs while there are at least 15-20 additional players ahead of Siakam in per36 REB who do barely anything outside of rebounding. And assists are no better; Dieng, NAW, Joe and Monk are just a few of the ridiculous names ahead of Siakam in per36 AST.

Overall, when you look at what Siakam has done so far this season, he has been at least a top 10 player. Outside of Luka/Giannis/LeBron/Jokic/Harden and Siakam, there aren't many players putting up (or capable of doing so) 25/8/7 type numbers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

You are reiterating my point. You can't celebrate the small sample break through success of a player via per game stats and then rationalize why things don't reach the same conclusion via per 36.

Siakam is a top NBA player on a upper tier NBA team. That status was established with long term success and won't be changed by short term results.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Except... you can? And he very clearly did?

People act like if any player played 36mpg they would all be a 25/8/7 guy? It is a skill in itself to play 36mpg, play against other teams starters, and still put up the stats. It is much less impressive to put up those stats in limited minutes against benches.

[StopitLeo]

I don't think hes a superstar btw. To me a superstar ends with the kawhis and lebrons rounding out the top 8 or so players. I dont think tatum is a superstar yet(could be. This year. We'll see), nor is pg, nor is booker. Siakam is on his way to that conversation, but not superstardom. That title can't be thrown around lightly.

Talks about him peaking tho was just so blatantly laughable this offseason. It always is. Everyone always said demars peaked. Lowrys peaked. Fvv has peaked. Siakam has peaked. But they always come back better. How about we retire the "peaked" takes because on this team you just don't know.

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I agree with you. People define a “superstar” in broad ways.

The top tier of player IMO is a guy that you can put on any playoff team and it makes them a legit contender the way Kawhi did for us. We are talking LeBron, KD, Steph, Giannis now. These are your “superstars” if that is the pinnacle of player labels.

Pascal isn’t on that level. I wouldn’t bet against him, but he isn’t there yet. Similar to Tatum as you mentioned or even Embiid who got a lot of MVP consideration.

[Badonkadonk]

The thing that blows me away about Pascal is that he's not only been the offensive engine of the team and has made players around him better, but he's somehow maintained elite D for a wing.

His fitness is ridiculous, and clearly a function of how much work he put in preparing for the season.

All the guys that get thrown into that 1st Team All-NBA discussion bring the offensive side, but rare you get both (eg. Giannis who is not human).

[old skool]

Per36 is even more clunky at this point though. Your "4 or more games" qualifier has players like Isaiah Joe (6 GP, 18 total minutes), Brandon Boston Jr. (5 GP, 16 total minutes) and Naz Reid (6 GP, 65 total minutes) ahead of Siakam in per36 PTS, but I don't think anyone in the world would consider any of those players a better scorer than Siakam. You also have guys like Keldon Johnson, LaVine, DeRozan, Mathurin, etc. who have comparable usage rates (2-3% lower than Siakam) and play for teams that play at a significantly faster pace (5-7 more possessions per game than Toronto) that are just eeking out Siakam by 1-2 per36 PTS. It's the same kind of thing with rebounds too; Jordan, Garuba, Muscala, Okogie, Dieng, Griffin, McGee, Jones, Tillman and Vonleh are playing ~10 MPG as generally energy bigs while there are at least 15-20 additional players ahead of Siakam in per36 REB who do barely anything outside of rebounding. And assists are no better; Dieng, NAW, Joe and Monk are just a few of the ridiculous names ahead of Siakam in per36 AST.

Overall, when you look at what Siakam has done so far this season, he has been at least a top 10 player. Outside of Luka/Giannis/LeBron/Jokic/Harden and Siakam, there aren't many players putting up (or capable of doing so) 25/8/7 type numbers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

You are reiterating my point. You can't celebrate the small sample break through success of a player via per game stats and then rationalize why things don't reach the same conclusion via per 36.

Siakam is a top NBA player on a upper tier NBA team. That status was established with long term success and won't be changed by short term results.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Except... you can? And he very clearly did?

People act like if any player played 36mpg they would all be a 25/8/7 guy? It is a skill in itself to play 36mpg, play against other teams starters, and still put up the stats. It is much less impressive to put up those stats in limited minutes against benches.

I did not make claims based on the short sample of games played in this early season. Rather, I said "I suspect that stats for all players will normalize as the season progresses, that Siakam will be an All-Star and will have a good chance to make an All-NBA team. But I think it is good to give the season a bit to unfold before embracing early season stats as the new normal."

[raptorforlife88]

8 games isn't a huge sample, but it's also not nothing, and and he's looking pretty amazing. I think scoring aside, where he's looking a bit more effective but similar to the second half of last year, the playmaking just looks like something he's going to keep up. He's making every pass he needs to consistently when the chance is there. He just handles double teams with ease now that he can make those plays all the time.

[tecumseh18]

Man, those last two airballed 3s against the Spurs pissed me off.

I dunno, I'm not quite ready to go all-in on Pascal as a #1 guy. Although he already proved in 2019 that he's the best #2 guy in the league. Better than Paul George. Better than Kyrie. Better than AD.

[Slade3]

I guess 13 game Bargnani was goat level.

[canada_dry]

Small sample size crowd is being funny again. This is a continuation of post all star break siakam who averaged something crazy like 27 8 and 6 in the last 20 games of the season, and played the best basketball of his career from game 4-6 in the playoffs.

This is him now . Whatever this is.

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[OakleyDokely]

Since Jan of this year, Siakam has been lights out.

[LoveMyRaps]

Call me crazy but Siakam could become the first player ever to win a second MIP award.

2x MIP would be crazy.

[Kingsway_fan]

Since Jan of this year, Siakam has been lights out.

Yep. And like a true number 1 star, he makes everyone around him better.

[NBJ13]

For me what separates a superstar vs star is being able to elevate your game vs the best competition and clutch situations. Many 'stars' shrink in those situations.

[OakleyDokely]

Last 52 games of last season:
39.2 MIN, 24.1 PPG, 8.8 REB, 5.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 0.6 BLK, .502 FG, .352 3PT, .750 FT

This season:
36.1 MIN, 25.6 PPG, 8.1 REB, 7.9 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.6 BLK, .477 FG, .361 3PT, .730 FT



This is who Siakam is and he's been this way for a long time.

[Quattro]

I guess all these “8 games is a small sample size” people must have not been watching raptors games last season.

[JB7]

Last 52 games of last season:
39.2 MIN, 24.1 PPG, 8.8 REB, 5.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 0.6 BLK, .502 FG, .352 3PT, .750 FT

This season:
36.1 MIN, 25.6 PPG, 8.1 REB, 7.9 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.6 BLK, .477 FG, .361 3PT, .730 FT



This is who Siakam is and he's been this way for a long time.

Siakam has been this way since the team inserted him into the point forward role, which works to his strengths, but also benefits him greatly in terms of his stats, as he is put in the best possible situation to score (he is making the choice of whether to attack or dish off the ball). Also with his hunting of rebounds, assists and points, is this beginning to feel Westbrook-ish in terms of his constant pursuit of the numbers?

Years after the fact, Westbrook stats are looking more like hollow stats. Will Siakam's been seen as the same? His shooting percentages are not changing dramatically, just his volume of shots are going up, as well as his FTs.

[OakleyDokely]

Last 52 games of last season:
39.2 MIN, 24.1 PPG, 8.8 REB, 5.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 0.6 BLK, .502 FG, .352 3PT, .750 FT

This season:
36.1 MIN, 25.6 PPG, 8.1 REB, 7.9 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.6 BLK, .477 FG, .361 3PT, .730 FT



This is who Siakam is and he's been this way for a long time.

Siakam has been this way since the team inserted him into the point forward role, which works to his strengths, but also benefits him greatly in terms of his stats, as he is put in the best possible situation to score (he is making the choice of whether to attack or dish off the ball). Also with his hunting of rebounds, assists and points, is this beginning to feel Westbrook-ish in terms of his constant pursuit of the numbers?

Years after the fact, Westbrook stats are looking more like hollow stats. Will Siakam's been seen as the same? His shooting percentages are not changing dramatically, just his volume of shots are going up, as well as his FTs.

Siakam does it on solid efficiency and very good defense, which is the opposite of Westbrook.

[JB7]

Last 52 games of last season:
39.2 MIN, 24.1 PPG, 8.8 REB, 5.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 0.6 BLK, .502 FG, .352 3PT, .750 FT

This season:
36.1 MIN, 25.6 PPG, 8.1 REB, 7.9 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.6 BLK, .477 FG, .361 3PT, .730 FT



This is who Siakam is and he's been this way for a long time.

Siakam has been this way since the team inserted him into the point forward role, which works to his strengths, but also benefits him greatly in terms of his stats, as he is put in the best possible situation to score (he is making the choice of whether to attack or dish off the ball). Also with his hunting of rebounds, assists and points, is this beginning to feel Westbrook-ish in terms of his constant pursuit of the numbers?

Years after the fact, Westbrook stats are looking more like hollow stats. Will Siakam's been seen as the same? His shooting percentages are not changing dramatically, just his volume of shots are going up, as well as his FTs.

Siakam does it on solid efficiency and very good defense, which is the opposite of Westbrook.

Yes, Siakam is much more efficient, and a much better shooter than Westbrook, but Westbrook was considered an elite defender.

I guess the question is ultimately, can Siakam do what he is doing against great teams in high pressure (playoffs) situations?

I still think it is a sell high moment with PS, as his value seems to be going through the roof. If they could turn PS into Durant without giving up a lot of young players and future draft picks, I would do that deal in a heart beat.

[Marty_Budda]

Last 52 games of last season:
39.2 MIN, 24.1 PPG, 8.8 REB, 5.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 0.6 BLK, .502 FG, .352 3PT, .750 FT

This season:
36.1 MIN, 25.6 PPG, 8.1 REB, 7.9 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.6 BLK, .477 FG, .361 3PT, .730 FT



This is who Siakam is and he's been this way for a long time.

Siakam has been this way since the team inserted him into the point forward role, which works to his strengths, but also benefits him greatly in terms of his stats, as he is put in the best possible situation to score (he is making the choice of whether to attack or dish off the ball). Also with his hunting of rebounds, assists and points, is this beginning to feel Westbrook-ish in terms of his constant pursuit of the numbers?

Years after the fact, Westbrook stats are looking more like hollow stats. Will Siakam's been seen as the same? His shooting percentages are not changing dramatically, just his volume of shots are going up, as well as his FTs.

Westbrook’s faults don’t lie with him hunting for rebounds. Westbrooks problems have always been 1) not being able to shoot 2) suffering from tunnel vision/not being able to slow down 3) not interested in playing defense 4) not coachable.

Siakam doesn’t have any of these things. I’m more than ok with him hunting out rebounds if his defense doesn’t suffer from it.

Finally, your argument about his stats being a result of him being thrust in a point forward role can be said of just about any star player. They all have the ball in their hands a lot more and teammates look for them to create. It’s not like you can put anyone in pascals shoes and they’ll be able to do what he does. You need to be a very skilled multidimensional player.