2018 LeBron James vs. 2022 Steph Curry

[michaelm]

The 2022 Warriors were the #1 seed until Curry and Draymond Green went down with injury during the second half the season. Not really comparable seasons. They would've been a 60+ win team without those injuries.

That’s rather the point, they were a very good team, somewhat surprisingly from the start of the season.

In my view it depends what floats your boat and your fan allegiances whether you prefer GSW building back to be a very good team to win a title “playing ensemble basketball around Curry” as one poster put it or words to that effect from the shattered remnants of the KD GSW team at the end of the 2019 finals, or LeBron performing a carry job to take the shattered remnants of that version of the Cavs sans Irving to the 2018 finals.

[michaelm]

It’s funny when someone manages to give WarriorGM competition for worst posts in this thread. I don’t think either of you have made one legitimately good point in this entire thread.

Not sure what to tell you. Curry beat him multiple times. He also had to go up against tougher competition to even get there. Sorry man.

Well no he didn’t. The Warriors beat the Cavaliers three times.

But sure, I guess Bill Russell is just automatically better than Wilt Chamberlain since Wilt could never beat him.

I wouldn’t say automatically, but as someone who is a fan of team play in team sports I am perhaps unsurprisingly a Russell man, he was probably the ultimate team player. Wilt was obviously a ridiculously remarkable athlete, I am unaware of anyone who surpasses him; there might be more remarkable athletes who never came to widespread attention i guess .

I have researched Bill Russell as much as I can at this remove in time, and he pretty much said at one point in time that he couldn’t match Wilt individually and decided to concentrate on team play which he did par excellence, and those 11 titles in his 13 year career, including 2 as a player coach, are far from unrelated to Bill from what I can glean. The Celtics didn’t win the year before he first played for them and didn’t win the year after he retired, and iirc one of the 2 years the Celtics lost over the 13 years of his career was when he was injured.

He has directly said that over his career he was careful not to rile Wilt because a motivated Wilt was close to unstoppable including by him.

As well as being really smart Bill was a formidable athlete himself, and pretty much still the physical/physiological archetype for an elite NBA defensive player whom some contend pretty much invented NBA defense. If you look at the old footage he is a fluid (and fast) athlete unlike most then (not including Wilt of course), and looks as though he could slot straight into the modern NBA imo.

When you figure in what Bill had to deal with and how he was a trailblazer for black athletes he is even more remarkable, again Imo.

[TheLand13]

Not sure what to tell you. Curry beat him multiple times. He also had to go up against tougher competition to even get there. Sorry man.

Well no he didn’t. The Warriors beat the Cavaliers three times.

But sure, I guess Bill Russell is just automatically better than Wilt Chamberlain since Wilt could never beat him.

I wouldn’t say automatically, but as someone who is a fan of team play in team sports I am perhaps unsurprisingly a Russell man, he was probably the ultimate team player. Wilt was obviously a ridiculously remarkable athlete, I can unaware of anyone who surpasses him; there might be more remarkable athletes who never came to widespread attention i guess .

I have researched Bill Russell as much as I can at this remove in time, and he pretty much said at one point in time that he couldn’t match Wilt individually and decided to concentrate on team play which he did par excellence, and those 11 titles in his 13 year career, including 2 as a player coach, are from unrelated to Bill from what I can glean. The Celtics didn’t win the year before he first played for them and didn’t win the year after he retired, and iirc one of the 2 years the Celtics lost over the 13 years of his career was when he was injured.

He has directly said that over his career he was careful not to rile Wilt because a motivated Wilt was close to unstoppable including by him.

As well as being really smart Bill was a formidable athlete himself, and pretty much still the physical/physiological archetype for an elite NBA defensive player, and some contend he pretty much invented NBA defense. If you look at the old footage he is a fluid (and fast) athlete unlike most then (not including Wilt of course), and looks as though he could slot straight in to the modern NBA imo.

When you figure in what Bill had to deal with and how he was a trailblazer for black athletes he is even more remarkable, again Imo.

I’m not denying bills greatness or anything, I’m calling out Goombas idiotic argument. Curry winning three of his four finals meetings with LeBron means nothing, especially since Curry’s team was far better in two of the meetings and LeBron was without two of his best players in the first one.

What’s funny is that Goomba is now claiming I’m desperate, but he’s ultimately resorting to a very desperate argument here. He knows he’s got nothing so he’s trying the “I’m just stating facts” argument, a common defense mechanism for people who don’t know any better.

It’s pretty sad to see. I feel bad for Curry fans who have to read this nonsense.

[WarriorGM]

Well no he didn’t. The Warriors beat the Cavaliers three times.

But sure, I guess Bill Russell is just automatically better than Wilt Chamberlain since Wilt could never beat him.

I wouldn’t say automatically, but as someone who is a fan of team play in team sports I am perhaps unsurprisingly a Russell man, he was probably the ultimate team player. Wilt was obviously a ridiculously remarkable athlete, I can unaware of anyone who surpasses him; there might be more remarkable athletes who never came to widespread attention i guess .

I have researched Bill Russell as much as I can at this remove in time, and he pretty much said at one point in time that he couldn’t match Wilt individually and decided to concentrate on team play which he did par excellence, and those 11 titles in his 13 year career, including 2 as a player coach, are from unrelated to Bill from what I can glean. The Celtics didn’t win the year before he first played for them and didn’t win the year after he retired, and iirc one of the 2 years the Celtics lost over the 13 years of his career was when he was injured.

He has directly said that over his career he was careful not to rile Wilt because a motivated Wilt was close to unstoppable including by him.

As well as being really smart Bill was a formidable athlete himself, and pretty much still the physical/physiological archetype for an elite NBA defensive player, and some contend he pretty much invented NBA defense. If you look at the old footage he is a fluid (and fast) athlete unlike most then (not including Wilt of course), and looks as though he could slot straight in to the modern NBA imo.

When you figure in what Bill had to deal with and how he was a trailblazer for black athletes he is even more remarkable, again Imo.

I’m not denying bills greatness or anything, I’m calling out Goombas idiotic argument. Curry winning three of his four finals meetings with LeBron means nothing, especially since Curry’s team was far better in two of the meetings and LeBron was without two of his best players in the first one.

What’s funny is that Goomba is now claiming I’m desperate, but he’s ultimately resorting to a very desperate argument here. He knows he’s got nothing so he’s trying the “I’m just stating facts” argument, a common defense mechanism for people who don’t know any better.

It’s pretty sad to see. I feel bad for Curry fans who have to read this nonsense.

Curry fans need a Cavaliers fan to feel sorry for them? I guess a Cavaliers fan might dream that.

[TheLand13]

I wouldn’t say automatically, but as someone who is a fan of team play in team sports I am perhaps unsurprisingly a Russell man, he was probably the ultimate team player. Wilt was obviously a ridiculously remarkable athlete, I can unaware of anyone who surpasses him; there might be more remarkable athletes who never came to widespread attention i guess .

I have researched Bill Russell as much as I can at this remove in time, and he pretty much said at one point in time that he couldn’t match Wilt individually and decided to concentrate on team play which he did par excellence, and those 11 titles in his 13 year career, including 2 as a player coach, are from unrelated to Bill from what I can glean. The Celtics didn’t win the year before he first played for them and didn’t win the year after he retired, and iirc one of the 2 years the Celtics lost over the 13 years of his career was when he was injured.

He has directly said that over his career he was careful not to rile Wilt because a motivated Wilt was close to unstoppable including by him.

As well as being really smart Bill was a formidable athlete himself, and pretty much still the physical/physiological archetype for an elite NBA defensive player, and some contend he pretty much invented NBA defense. If you look at the old footage he is a fluid (and fast) athlete unlike most then (not including Wilt of course), and looks as though he could slot straight in to the modern NBA imo.

When you figure in what Bill had to deal with and how he was a trailblazer for black athletes he is even more remarkable, again Imo.

I’m not denying bills greatness or anything, I’m calling out Goombas idiotic argument. Curry winning three of his four finals meetings with LeBron means nothing, especially since Curry’s team was far better in two of the meetings and LeBron was without two of his best players in the first one.

What’s funny is that Goomba is now claiming I’m desperate, but he’s ultimately resorting to a very desperate argument here. He knows he’s got nothing so he’s trying the “I’m just stating facts” argument, a common defense mechanism for people who don’t know any better.

It’s pretty sad to see. I feel bad for Curry fans who have to read this nonsense.

Curry fans need a Cavaliers fan to feel sorry for them? I guess a Cavaliers fan might dream that.

Not dreaming anything, but if there was a Cavaliers fan as delusional as you are on this forum, it would make me want to switch teams.

[WarriorGM]

I’m not denying bills greatness or anything, I’m calling out Goombas idiotic argument. Curry winning three of his four finals meetings with LeBron means nothing, especially since Curry’s team was far better in two of the meetings and LeBron was without two of his best players in the first one.

What’s funny is that Goomba is now claiming I’m desperate, but he’s ultimately resorting to a very desperate argument here. He knows he’s got nothing so he’s trying the “I’m just stating facts” argument, a common defense mechanism for people who don’t know any better.

It’s pretty sad to see. I feel bad for Curry fans who have to read this nonsense.

Curry fans need a Cavaliers fan to feel sorry for them? I guess a Cavaliers fan might dream that.

Not dreaming anything, but if there was a Cavaliers fan as delusional as you are on this forum, it would make me want to switch teams.

If only there was a Cavaliers fan who had as much reason to be as delusional as myself maybe the Cavaliers would win more championships. Too bad for you your brand of delusion doesn't win as much.

[TheLand13]

Curry fans need a Cavaliers fan to feel sorry for them? I guess a Cavaliers fan might dream that.

Not dreaming anything, but if there was a Cavaliers fan as delusional as you are on this forum, it would make me want to switch teams.

If only there was a Cavaliers fan who had as much reason to be as delusional as myself maybe the Cavaliers would win more championships. Too bad for you your brand of delusion doesn't win as much.

At this point you’re going off the deep end with your responses. It’s funny when the signs of major cracks are showing and you don’t even realize it.

But if I need advice on how to make my team blow a 3-1 lead and 73 win season I’ll be sure to give you guys a call.

[WarriorGM]

Not dreaming anything, but if there was a Cavaliers fan as delusional as you are on this forum, it would make me want to switch teams.

If only there was a Cavaliers fan who had as much reason to be as delusional as myself maybe the Cavaliers would win more championships. Too bad for you your brand of delusion doesn't win as much.

At this point you’re going off the deep end with your responses. It’s funny when the signs of major cracks are showing and you don’t even realize it.

But if I need advice on how to make my team blow a 3-1 lead and 73 win season I’ll be sure to give you guys a call.

Major cracks? It's funny how in a discussion with someone such as yourself that will invariably come up. Predictable because there's not much else to hold on to.

If you are going to place a call I suggest you inquire first for pointers on how to win 60 games or how to get a 3-1 lead to begin with.

[Floody100]

If only there was a Cavaliers fan who had as much reason to be as delusional as myself maybe the Cavaliers would win more championships. Too bad for you your brand of delusion doesn't win as much.

At this point you’re going off the deep end with your responses. It’s funny when the signs of major cracks are showing and you don’t even realize it.

But if I need advice on how to make my team blow a 3-1 lead and 73 win season I’ll be sure to give you guys a call.

Major cracks? It's funny how in a discussion with someone such as yourself that will invariably come up. Predictable because there's not much else to hold on to.

If you are going to place a call I suggest you inquire first for pointers on how to win 60 games or how to get a 3-1 lead to begin with.

I never thought I’d see the day a Warriors fan would end up using the biggest choke job in NBA history as a comeback in an argument.

But here we are.

[WarriorGM]

At this point you’re going off the deep end with your responses. It’s funny when the signs of major cracks are showing and you don’t even realize it.

But if I need advice on how to make my team blow a 3-1 lead and 73 win season I’ll be sure to give you guys a call.

Major cracks? It's funny how in a discussion with someone such as yourself that will invariably come up. Predictable because there's not much else to hold on to.

If you are going to place a call I suggest you inquire first for pointers on how to win 60 games or how to get a 3-1 lead to begin with.

I never thought I’d see the day a Warriors fan would end up using the biggest choke job in NBA history as a comeback in an argument.

But here we are.

That I am perfectly capable of doing so should perhaps enlighten you it isn't what you would have everyone believe. Do you really want to get in a comparison between biggest disappointments of LeBron James vs. Stephen Curry? 2009 losing to Dwight was bad enough but then there was that other occasion too.

[TheLand13]

At this point you’re going off the deep end with your responses. It’s funny when the signs of major cracks are showing and you don’t even realize it.

But if I need advice on how to make my team blow a 3-1 lead and 73 win season I’ll be sure to give you guys a call.

Major cracks? It's funny how in a discussion with someone such as yourself that will invariably come up. Predictable because there's not much else to hold on to.

If you are going to place a call I suggest you inquire first for pointers on how to win 60 games or how to get a 3-1 lead to begin with.

I never thought I’d see the day a Warriors fan would end up using the biggest choke job in NBA history as a comeback in an argument.

But here we are.

I don’t know which is more hilarious: the fact that he forgot that LeBron has multiple 60 win seasons under his belt or that I baited him so badly to the point where I got him to say “my guys choke job was better than yours”. You can’t make this stuff up.

[michaelm]

Major cracks? It's funny how in a discussion with someone such as yourself that will invariably come up. Predictable because there's not much else to hold on to.

If you are going to place a call I suggest you inquire first for pointers on how to win 60 games or how to get a 3-1 lead to begin with.

I never thought I’d see the day a Warriors fan would end up using the biggest choke job in NBA history as a comeback in an argument.

But here we are.

I don’t know which is more hilarious: the fact that he forgot that LeBron has multiple 60 win seasons under his belt or that I baited him so badly to the point where I got him to say “my guys choke job was better than yours”. You can’t make this stuff up.

Except the narrative that Curry choked in 2016 was invented by LeBron fans because they were still traumatised from having watched their guy very definitely choke in the 2011 finals. The same as the narrative that LeBron and the Cavs beat the best team of all time in 2016. Perhaps not totally unreasonable to make that boast for one year, but they in fact got absolutely smashed by the best team of all time the following season, the 2017 GSW team which was very obviously a much better team despite “only” winning 67 games. If 2017 GSW aren’t the best team of all time then that team is one of the Jordan Bulls title winning teams.

[TheLand13]

I never thought I’d see the day a Warriors fan would end up using the biggest choke job in NBA history as a comeback in an argument.

But here we are.

I don’t know which is more hilarious: the fact that he forgot that LeBron has multiple 60 win seasons under his belt or that I baited him so badly to the point where I got him to say “my guys choke job was better than yours”. You can’t make this stuff up.

Except the narrative that Curry choked in 2016 was invented by LeBron fans because they were still traumatised from having watched their guy very definitely choke in the 2011 finals. The same as the narrative that LeBron and the Cavs beat the best team of all time in 2016. Perhaps not totally unreasonable to make that boast for one year, but they in fact got absolutely smashed by the best team of all time the following season, the 2017 GSW team which was very obviously a much better team despite “only” winning 67 games. If 2017 GSW aren’t the best team of all time then that team is one of the Jordan Bulls title winning teams.

Curry was playing injured in that series but he absolutely choked game 7 away. There's no ifs and or butts about it.

I don't think anyone ever claimed Cleveland beat "the greatest team of all time" in 2016, because Golden State losing that season pretty much confirmed they weren't in the first place. A historically great all time team and definitely in the top ten, but by no means were they the greatest team despite their record. I don't think they would have deserved that honor even if they did manage to win the title that season.

[michaelm]

I don’t know which is more hilarious: the fact that he forgot that LeBron has multiple 60 win seasons under his belt or that I baited him so badly to the point where I got him to say “my guys choke job was better than yours”. You can’t make this stuff up.

Except the narrative that Curry choked in 2016 was invented by LeBron fans because they were still traumatised from having watched their guy very definitely choke in the 2011 finals. The same as the narrative that LeBron and the Cavs beat the best team of all time in 2016. Perhaps not totally unreasonable to make that boast for one year, but they in fact got absolutely smashed by the best team of all time the following season, the 2017 GSW team which was very obviously a much better team despite “only” winning 67 games. If 2017 GSW aren’t the best team of all time then that team is one of the Jordan Bulls title winning teams.

Curry was playing injured in that series but he absolutely choked game 7 away. There's no ifs and or butts about it.

I don't think anyone ever claimed Cleveland beat "the greatest team of all time" in 2016, because Golden State losing that season pretty much confirmed they weren't in the first place. A historically great all time team and definitelyii in the top ten, but by no means were they the greatest team despite their record. I don't think they would have deserved that honor even if they did manage to win the title that season.

GSW lost in 2016 because they got outplayed in the last two and a half games, which were the games that counted. It wasn’t even just LeBron and Kyrie playing so well, Tristan Thompson was a monster rebounder etc, etc.

I can do might have beens as many LeBron fans did on here in regard to the 2015 title, except I don’t have their certainty about my alternate reality. Quite a few things did go wrong for GSW, I and others will always wonder what might have happened if Curry hadn’t slipped on some sweat on the Houston court, but that’s basketball as I have said previously.

In response to the “Curry choked” narrative I can go into some of the factors adverse to the GSW and Curry causes in the 2016 finals however. Curry wasn’t crippled, but he was hobbled; (EDIT got my 2017 GSW players mixed up,Curry has a syndesmosis injury currently, KD is taking 6 weeks off with an MCL sprain)they look like giving him 6 to 8 weeks off with the same injury currently rather than bringing him back after two and a half weeks as was the case then. And while he can’t run as fast or jump as high as the uber athletes of the NBA, among whom LeBron very obviously numbers, apart from the totally ridiculous hand eye co-ordination he has which is an athletic talent in my view he has great stamina; as your boy LeBron has said, Curry has a huge motor. Resting a knee injury for two and a half weeks in the middle of the play-offs takes the edge off that, as being a little hobbled does from his shooting which is not a result of telekinesis as far as I know. Basketball is very obviously a game where momentum is important, and that single game for which Green was suspended coincided with a major momentum shift, particularly after Bogut went down and they were relying on Festus Ezeli who hardly played another game after those finals and the Cavs discarded 15th man for rim protection in live minutes in an NBA finals against two players who are among the best ever at the rim in LeBron and Kyrie. They were also worn down generally, from the ridiculous and stupid effort they put into winning the 73 regular season games, and from the OKC WCF series they probably should have lost in 6 except for game 6 Klay; I thought they were gone for all money late in the 4th quarter of that game.

Offensively the Cavs decided to let players other than Curry and Thompson beat them ie Green, Barnes and Ezeli/Varejao, with Iguodala also hobbled. Green made a pretty fair attempt at doing so in game 7. I don’t know if you have ever noticed, but your guy LeBron is better than fair to middling defensively, and could operate as a free safety with no requirement to guard his direct opponent Harrison Barnes who couldn’t hit an open shot/the side of a barn, and while Curry can’t defend LeBron the reverse is not the case.

I don’t get into choking narratives unless someone else chooses to but I did watch the 2011 NBA finals live in various sports bars in San Antonio, and apart from Dirk hardly missing a free throw in the series have vivid memories of that infamous 4th quarter which iirc I watched in the bar at Morton’s San Antonio. Not of great moment now, it made LeBron’s redemption arc an even better story, he has won a significant multiple number of finals games and finals series as the major contributor since including in 2016, but while I was mainly replying to you in kind after a post of yours I do think there is at least an element of embroidery by LeBron fans in regard to a narrative of Curry “choking” in 2016, as a reaction to events in the 2011 finals.

[WarriorGM]

But if I need advice on how to make my team blow a 3-1 lead and 73 win season I’ll be sure to give you guys a call.

I don’t know which is more hilarious: the fact that he forgot that LeBron has multiple 60 win seasons under his belt or that I baited him so badly to the point where I got him to say “my guys choke job was better than yours”.

I don't know if you noticed yet but LeBron is no longer on your team. Being dumped twice yet still pining for the one who dumped you. That must be tough.