Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 3.0

[IceColdCubano]

It's tough man so many catch 22's

You're making more complicated then need be.

Duncan is playing great, and fits great.
Herro is playing good and improving.

Lowry is the only piece to move. You upgrade him to any other starting PG and we'll be better. Just don't overpay.

And I don't want to hear about next year's tax.
1 - we'll save alot money if we dump Lowry for Tyus/sexton/Rozier.
2 - Caleb Martin is not a reason not to upgrade at PG. Martin can walk, he's not a diffrence maker long term. He's getting way overrated here, we shouldn't be worrying about giving him a big long term deal, if he gets one from some team he can go just like Vincent did.

We need to trade our bad PG for a better one, and not overpay for the upgrade. It's that simple.

I think we should do everything we can to make Lowry for Rozier work. Yes I do agree it saves us 6.4 million in space this year and that equates to like 13 million in lux tax penalties this year savings. You let Martin walk next year unless it's on some value deal for under 10 million that keeps us from under the 1st apron. I think we are allowed to hover 6 million over the tax line for returning player if not mistaken.

As explained above, Rozier is undoable unless a miracle like trade occurs with 3-4 teams with a couple pieces moving in different directions. Sexton is also difficult to do but can be done in a 3 team situation. The only one that can be accomplished using one team in negotiations is the Tyus trade.

[MettaWorldPanda]

You're making more complicated then need be.

Duncan is playing great, and fits great.
Herro is playing good and improving.

Lowry is the only piece to move. You upgrade him to any other starting PG and we'll be better. Just don't overpay.

And I don't want to hear about next year's tax.
1 - we'll save alot money if we dump Lowry for Tyus/sexton/Rozier.
2 - Caleb Martin is not a reason not to upgrade at PG. Martin can walk, he's not a diffrence maker long term. He's getting way overrated here, we shouldn't be worrying about giving him a big long term deal, if he gets one from some team he can go just like Vincent did.

We need to trade our bad PG for a better one, and not overpay for the upgrade. It's that simple.

I think we should do everything we can to make Lowry for Rozier work. Yes I do agree it saves us 6.4 million in space this year and that equates to like 13 million in lux tax penalties this year savings. You let Martin walk next year unless it's on some value deal for under 10 million that keeps us from under the 1st apron. I think we are allowed to hover 6 million over the tax line for returning player if not mistaken.

As explained above, Rozier is undoable unless a miracle like trade occurs with 3-4 teams with a couple pieces moving in different directions. Sexton is also difficult to do but can be done in a 3 team situation. The only one that can be accomplished using one team in negotiations is the Tyus trade.

Tyus is definitely the easiest path and saves the most money. He makes 9 million less then Rozier and his contract extension will probably be no more then MLE money next year. Once again Tyus has to be the favorite right now amongst the group considering all the factors. Also the relationship with Jimmy is huge considering we would be letting go of Lowry.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Tyus just doesn’t move the needle for me. I mean I guess he does because anything is better than Lowry and he’s efficient playmaking wise but he’s just not the scoring punch this team needs. Just feel like we need a PG that’s going to playmake but also put pressure on the defense. Murray Rozier Sexton etc. do that far more. His playoff numbers are also abysmal.

I’d be happy to get him but he’s probably my last guy of those mentioned (aside from backup level PGs like Wright and Morris). He’d be an elite backup PG though.

[MettaWorldPanda]

It's tough man so many catch 22's

You're making more complicated then need be.

Duncan is playing great, and fits great.
Herro is playing good and improving.

Lowry is the only piece to move. You upgrade him to any other starting PG and we'll be better. Just don't overpay.

And I don't want to hear about next year's tax.
1 - we'll save alot money if we dump Lowry for Tyus/sexton/Rozier.
2 - Caleb Martin is not a reason not to upgrade at PG. Martin can walk, he's not a diffrence maker long term. He's getting way overrated here, we shouldn't be worrying about giving him a big long term deal, if he gets one from some team he can go just like Vincent did.

We need to trade our bad PG for a better one, and not overpay for the upgrade. It's that simple.

Easier said than done, You have to receive the same amount of money give or take 5% back that you sent out, if you take a less expensive PG you need filler salary to get bundled coming back. The problem is some of that needs to Expiring, Lowry's 30M is not going to give us 30M in cap space when he expires only about 14-15M of it will. Its a math problem, sure our FO can put something together using multiple teams, that are willing to help each other where we get less salary back, and perhaps a small player who's expiring as filler. The problem is finding that situation, and getting all the teams to like what they get out of the trade.

Ok, ill do some quick Math - Terry Rozier makes 23M this year and 24M next year that won't work even with 7M in expiring returning cause like I said, only half of Lowry's salary is coming off the books.

Collin Sexton, makes 17M this year and 18M next year that one is a bit closer, still about 2M away, but its easier because we could make it so we receive less filler and perhaps just eack into under the 2nd Apron. So Collin could work in a multi team trade.

Tyus Jones, is makine 14M this year and is expiring. That is exactly the money contract size we would need to stay under the 2nd Apron, also he is a free agent next year which we could decide to make it work or not. This one is the most viable, now what can we give them to want to trade with us, and better yet, what filler do we get back.

The fillers with the Wiz is the easiest part too cause you can easily get within the percentage with Wright, Shamet, or both all expiring and perfect depth rental players. Lowry and Bryant gets it done for all 3 then you simply add Dru Smith’s contract and we are 1.6 million below the 2nd apron

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

This part right here is what doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy about us doing anything at all.

"Doing nothing would be defensive. It is not normally like the Miami Heat to rest on laurels and overly entrust youngsters. However, at this current time, the balance of young and old, expensive and cheap, veteran and youngster, offense and defense is quite good, and there is always the reassurance of knowing that Jimmy Butler still has levels he can tap into around May-time."

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

This part right here is what doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy about us doing anything at all.

"Doing nothing would be defensive. It is not normally like the Miami Heat to rest on laurels and overly entrust youngsters. However, at this current time, the balance of young and old, expensive and cheap, veteran and youngster, offense and defense is quite good, and there is always the reassurance of knowing that Jimmy Butler still has levels he can tap into around May-time."

The quoted part in the tweet is interesting

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[DayofMourning]

Read on Twitter

That $30 mil expiring is gonna look good to someone.

Could we get a 1st from someone for him? Flip to ATL?

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

I haven't heard of this guy, always skeptical until it comes from the mouth of one our local beat writers. Need Barry to confirm this is the case. It kind of sucks to be honest, had this Apron thing not been a thing Kyle Expiring would be super duper valuable any other year as a large expiring, but because last year almost 60% of teams were hovering right at the first tax Apron, everyone and their mother made massive moves to get cap flexibility and relief. Just feels like were holding on to the Hot potatoes for far too long, in a mid season where perhaps, the teams that needed this massive cap relief did their moves in the offseason instead and weren't waiting for this opportunity.

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

That $30 mil expiring is gonna look good to someone.

Could we get a 1st from someone for him? Flip to ATL?

I digress, this midseason is the probably the worst in years past to hold onto a large expiring. Only 8 teams are above the first tax Apron with like 4 teams above the 2nd. One of those teams are us, and the other seven are all contenders going for it, which means not looking for Cap Relief. The Cap relief teams did their moves in the offseason, and a lot of them pulled some crappy trades to shed salary. I don't think their is a market for it right now like seasons past or if any.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

That $30 mil expiring is gonna look good to someone.

Could we get a 1st from someone for him? Flip to ATL?

How are we getting anything for him when we can’t afford to take on much guaranteed salary for him. Feel like we’ve beaten a dead horse to that. The posters in here have more knowledge of the inner workings of the heat than some kid working for clutchpoints in jersey.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I don’t see any package of Herro and Lowry that nets us a star player. That’s hoopshype wishful thinking. Bulls would do that in a heartbeat for LaVine and Caruso. We don’t need to do that.

[Bmaster]

Could we get a 1st from someone for him? Flip to ATL?

In fantasy land.

[MettaWorldPanda]

https://amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article279107794.html

Refresher on Lowry’s contract. Please read

[wade44]

If Lowry goes it will for an expiring.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Based off what Jackson stated in that article i see a path to getting Rozier and just allowing Martin and Highsmith to walk next year.

[IceColdCubano]

Just did a quick transaction history to see around what date does Miami Usually make their Mid season trades here is a history: I only went as far back as 2015 because well that was a lot of data to Siff through.
Here are 4 constants in all season for our Midseason trades.
#1 Only star player trade to Miami since 2015 by midseason trade deadline was Goran Dragic no big trades have been made since then.
#2 All other trades were made a day or 2 days prior to trade deadline expiring, Miami always waits to the last minute to get some sort of buying power and probably calls many bluffs and is like that dude that goes for the ugly chicks during last call to get easy pickings.
#3 they are mostly multi team deals, 90% of them are all 3 teams or more involved in these mid season trades.
#4 the majority of them had cost cutting implications of shedding salary or opening roster spot to pick up a buyout player.

Trade Deadline this Yeas is February 8th 2024, so if anything will happen it will the 6th-7th before the clock runs down.

FEB 7 2023
Dewayne Dedmon, C
Traded to San Antonio (SAS) from Miami (MIA) with 2028 2nd round pick for $110k

FEB 9 2022
KZ Okpala, SF
Traded to Oklahoma City (OKC) from Miami (MIA) with amended terms of 1st-round pick owed from 2023 Top-14 protected to 2026 unprotected for 2026 2nd round pick [less favorable of OKC, DAL or PHI pick]

MAR 25 2021
Kelly Olynyk, PF
Traded to Houston (HOU) from Miami (MIA) with Avery Bradley and 2022 1st round pick [HOU draft swap (HOU/BKN pick with MIA pick)] for Victor Oladipo
Avery Bradley, PG
Traded to Houston (HOU) from Miami (MIA) with Kelly Olynyk and 2022 1st round pick [HOU draft swap (HOU/BKN pick with MIA pick)] for Victor Oladipo
Victor Oladipo, SG
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Houston (HOU) for Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk and 2022 1st round pick [HOU draft swap (HOU/BKN pick with MIA pick)]
Nemanja Bjelica, PF
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Sacramento (SAC) for Maurice Harkless and Chris Silva
Chris Silva, F
Traded to Sacramento (SAC) from Miami (MIA) with Maurice Harkless for Nemanja Bjelica
Maurice Harkless, SF
Traded to Sacramento (SAC) from Miami (MIA) with Chris Silva for Nemanja Bjelica

MAR 17 2021
Meyers Leonard, C
Traded to Oklahoma City (OKC) from Miami (MIA) with 2027 2nd round pick for Trevor Ariza
Trevor Ariza, SF
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Oklahoma City (OKC) for Meyers Leonard and 2027 2nd round pick

FEB 6 2020
Andre Iguodala, SF
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Memphis (MEM) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Jae Crowder and Solomon Hill to Miami (MIA); Miami (MIA) traded Justise Winslow and Dion Waiters to Memphis (MEM); Miami (MIA) traded James Johnson to Minnesota (MIN); Minnesota (MIN) traded Gorgui Dieng to Memphis (MEM)
James Johnson, PF
Traded to Minnesota (MIN) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Andre Iguodala, Jae Crowder and Solomon Hill to Miami (MIA); Miami (MIA) traded Justise Winslow and Dion Waiters to Memphis (MEM); Minnesota (MIN) traded Gorgui Dieng to Memphis (MEM)
Dion Waiters, SG
Traded to Memphis (MEM) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Andre Iguodala, Jae Crowder and Solomon Hill to Miami (MIA); Miami (MIA) traded Justise Winslow to Memphis (MEM); Miami (MIA) traded James Johnson to Minnesota (MIN); Minnesota (MIN) traded Gorgui Dieng to Memphis (MEM)
Jae Crowder, SF
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Memphis (MEM) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Andre Iguodala and Solomon Hill to Miami (MIA); Miami (MIA) traded Justise Winslow and Dion Waiters to Memphis (MEM); Miami (MIA) traded James Johnson to Minnesota (MIN); Minnesota (MIN) traded Gorgui Dieng to Memphis (MEM)
Justise Winslow, SF
Traded to Memphis (MEM) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Andre Iguodala, Jae Crowder and Solomon Hill to Miami (MIA); Miami (MIA) traded Dion Waiters to Memphis (MEM); Miami (MIA) traded James Johnson to Minnesota (MIN); Minnesota (MIN) traded Gorgui Dieng to Memphis (MEM)
Solomon Hill, SF
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Memphis (MEM) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Andre Iguodala and Jae Crowder to Miami (MIA); Miami (MIA) traded Justise Winslow and Dion Waiters to Memphis (MEM); Miami (MIA) traded James Johnson to Minnesota (MIN); Minnesota (MIN) traded Gorgui Dieng to Memphis (MEM)

FEB 6 2019
Wayne Ellington, SG
Traded to Phoenix (PHX) from Miami (MIA) with Tyler Johnson and $1.8 million for Ryan Anderson
Ryan Anderson, PF
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Phoenix (PHX) for Tyler Johnson, Wayne Ellington and $1.8 million
Tyler Johnson, SG
Traded to Phoenix (PHX) from Miami (MIA) with Wayne Ellington and $1.8 million for Ryan Anderson

FEB 8 2018
Dwyane Wade, SG
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Cleveland (CLE) for 2024 2nd round pick

FEB 18 2016
Jarnell Stokes, PF
Traded to New Orleans (NOP) from Miami (MIA) with $700k+ for TBD
Brian Roberts, PG
Traded to Portland (POR) from Miami (MIA) with 2nd round pick for $75k

FEB 16 2016
Chris Andersen, PF
Traded to Memphis (MEM) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Courtney Lee and $542,714 to Charlotte (CHA); Miami (MIA) traded 2017 2nd round pick and 2019 2nd round pick to Memphis (MEM); Charlotte (CHA) traded P.J. Hairston, 2018 2nd round pick and 2019 2nd round pick to Memphis (MEM); Charlotte (CHA) traded Brian Roberts to Miami (MIA)
Brian Roberts, PG
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Charlotte (CHA) as part of a 3-team trade: Memphis (MEM) traded Courtney Lee and $542,714 to Charlotte (CHA); Miami (MIA) traded Chris Andersen, 2017 2nd round pick and 2019 2nd round pick to Memphis (MEM); Charlotte (CHA) traded P.J. Hairston, 2018 2nd round pick and 2019 2nd round pick to Memphis (MEM)

FEB 19 2015
Zoran Dragic, SG
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Phoenix (PHX) as part of a 3-team trade: Miami (MIA) traded Danny Granger, 2021 1st round pick, $2.2 million and 2017 1st round pick to Phoenix (PHX); Miami (MIA) traded Justin Hamilton, Norris Cole, Shawne Williams and $369K to New Orleans (NOP); Phoenix (PHX) traded Goran Dragic to Miami (MIA); New Orleans (NOP) traded John Salmons to Phoenix (PHX)
Shawne Williams, SF
Traded to New Orleans (NOP) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Miami (MIA) traded Danny Granger, 2021 1st round pick, $2.2 million and 2017 1st round pick to Phoenix (PHX); Miami (MIA) traded Justin Hamilton, Norris Cole and $369K to New Orleans (NOP); Phoenix (PHX) traded Goran Dragic and Zoran Dragic to Miami (MIA); New Orleans (NOP) traded John Salmons to Phoenix (PHX)
Danny Granger, SF
Traded to Phoenix (PHX) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Miami (MIA) traded 2021 1st round pick, $2.2 million and 2017 1st round pick to Phoenix (PHX); Miami (MIA) traded Justin Hamilton, Norris Cole, Shawne Williams and $369K to New Orleans (NOP); Phoenix (PHX) traded Goran Dragic and Zoran Dragic to Miami (MIA); New Orleans (NOP) traded John Salmons to Phoenix (PHX)
Goran Dragic, PG
Traded to Miami (MIA) from Phoenix (PHX) as part of a 3-team trade: Miami (MIA) traded Danny Granger, 2021 1st round pick, $2.2 million and 2017 1st round pick to Phoenix (PHX); Miami (MIA) traded Justin Hamilton, Norris Cole, Shawne Williams and $369K to New Orleans (NOP); Phoenix (PHX) traded Zoran Dragic to Miami (MIA); New Orleans (NOP) traded John Salmons to Phoenix (PHX)
Justin Hamilton, C
Traded to New Orleans (NOP) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Miami (MIA) traded Danny Granger, 2021 1st round pick, $2.2 million and 2017 1st round pick to Phoenix (PHX); Miami (MIA) traded Norris Cole, Shawne Williams and $369K to New Orleans (NOP); Phoenix (PHX) traded Goran Dragic and Zoran Dragic to Miami (MIA); New Orleans (NOP) traded John Salmons to Phoenix (PHX)
Norris Cole, PG
Traded to New Orleans (NOP) from Miami (MIA) as part of a 3-team trade: Miami (MIA) traded Danny Granger, 2021 1st round pick, $2.2 million and 2017 1st round pick to Phoenix (PHX); Miami (MIA) traded Justin Hamilton, Shawne Williams and $369K to New Orleans (NOP); Phoenix (PHX) traded Goran Dragic and Zoran Dragic to Miami (MIA); New Orleans (NOP) traded John Salmons to Phoenix (PHX)

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Lowry Jovic a 1st and a swap for Murray Bey and Mills will happen and you all will like it!! Or cut out Mills, works for me either way

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Based off what Jackson stated in that article i see a path to getting Rozier and just allowing Martin and Highsmith to walk next year.

Sign me up but we’re keeping Highsmith AND converting Cain to a cheap minimum deal to replace Martin!!

[wAtChOut218]

WATCHOUT for the following

1) Lowry + assets back to Toronto in a deal for Schroder + Thad Young + Temple (Saves the Heat $$$ and beefs up the roster)
2) 3 way trade MIA/ATL/GSW getting Murray to Miami / Wiggins to ATL / Caleb Martin + Clint Capela to GSW
3) Heat don't expect to be able to keep Caleb Martin after this season so expect his name + Lowry to come up quite a bit over the next month