OT: Lonnie Walker, Updates

[ConstableGeneva]

Prior Walkers Kemba and Antoine both wore #8. Too bad Porzingis is using it now. Toine also used #88, now being worn by Queta. #28 is available. And #12 was vacated by Oshae.

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Picking #12 and not just some high random number gives you higher odds of making the team. I did my research. Saw it on TikTok.

[ConstableGeneva]

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White vetted him before Brad signed him.

[Gant]

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White vetted him before Brad signed him.

HImmelsbach:

Stevens said Walker’s friendships with Celtics guards Derrick White and Jrue Holiday influenced his choice.
“I think there was an eagerness to be around those guys and try a new situation,” Stevens said. “So obviously he’s got a lot of talent and done a lot of good things in the NBA. We’ll see how it fits and plays itself out.”

[ConstableGeneva]

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[ConstableGeneva]

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Mentioned it before, but just assessing his situation and potential opportunities elsewhere, it does seem he just really wants to be a Celtic.

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[GoCeltics123]

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[Dogen]

What is going on?!?!? With this Walker stuff??? G-League????

Team is playing possum with this signing. G-LEAGUE???? LMFAO!

With Porzingis out, Lonnie is, what, 6th best player on the team?

Oh, right. He has to prove it, cuz there are 21 guys all trying to make it.

PUL-EEEZ! OK, yeah, Hauser, Pritchard, and maybe Tillman are going to get significant minutes off the bench. But as far as NBA talent goes? Have people seen Lonnie Walker play? He's better overall talent than those guys.

Now, whether he puts it into a package that fits the team is up to him. But I think it would be a monumental failure on his part to like, --- wait, we talkin' g-league for Lonnie? We talkin' about g-league? This dude can ball already. Talkin' about GLEAGUE?!?!??!

Anyway, they are just downplaying the signing because Brad got another steal, and he's a really good guy that wouldn't rub it in people's faces. Next man up, taking it one day at a time, playing the right way, playing within yourself. Yeah, I get it.

But when Walker gets on fire -- and you know he will at times -- it's gonna bring a new dimension to the bench. A missing piece. A very fun missing piece that just needs to working on locking down on D, which he has the skills to do.

****' G-LEAGUE?????

[165bows]

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They could do G-league affiliate deal to a couple of ten days later in the year and then see where they are from there.

Wouldn’t surprise me actually. No way he’s eligible for a two way is that right?

[Dogen]

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TLDR; "G-League?!? We talkin' G-League?!?

[ConstableGeneva]

What is going on?!?!? With this Walker stuff??? G-League????

Team is playing possum with this signing. G-LEAGUE???? LMFAO!

With Porzingis out, Lonnie is, what, 6th best player on the team?

Oh, right. He has to prove it, cuz there are 21 guys all trying to make it.

PUL-EEEZ! OK, yeah, Hauser, Pritchard, and maybe Tillman are going to get significant minutes off the bench. But as far as NBA talent goes? Have people seen Lonnie Walker play? He's better overall talent than those guys.

Now, whether he puts it into a package that fits the team is up to him. But I think it would be a monumental failure on his part to like, --- wait, we talkin' g-league for Lonnie? We talkin' about g-league? This dude can ball already. Talkin' about GLEAGUE?!?!??!

Anyway, they are just downplaying the signing because Brad got another steal, and he's a really good guy that wouldn't rub it in people's faces. Next man up, taking it one day at a time, playing the right way, playing within yourself. Yeah, I get it.

But when Walker gets on fire -- and you know he will at times -- it's gonna bring a new dimension to the bench. A missing piece. A very fun missing piece that just needs to working on locking down on D, which he has the skills to do.

****' G-LEAGUE?????

Money is a big factor.

[Hal14]

What is going on?!?!? With this Walker stuff??? G-League????

Team is playing possum with this signing. G-LEAGUE???? LMFAO!

With Porzingis out, Lonnie is, what, 6th best player on the team?

Oh, right. He has to prove it, cuz there are 21 guys all trying to make it.

PUL-EEEZ! OK, yeah, Hauser, Pritchard, and maybe Tillman are going to get significant minutes off the bench. But as far as NBA talent goes? Have people seen Lonnie Walker play? He's better overall talent than those guys.

Now, whether he puts it into a package that fits the team is up to him. But I think it would be a monumental failure on his part to like, --- wait, we talkin' g-league for Lonnie? We talkin' about g-league? This dude can ball already. Talkin' about GLEAGUE?!?!??!

Anyway, they are just downplaying the signing because Brad got another steal, and he's a really good guy that wouldn't rub it in people's faces. Next man up, taking it one day at a time, playing the right way, playing within yourself. Yeah, I get it.

But when Walker gets on fire -- and you know he will at times -- it's gonna bring a new dimension to the bench. A missing piece. A very fun missing piece that just needs to working on locking down on D, which he has the skills to do.

****' G-LEAGUE?????

I think you (and many Celtics fans on Twitter) are really overrating him.

He's a ball dominant player, takes lots of shots but throughout his career has not been an efficient scorer (below league average TS% every year of his career), doesn't play defense (statistically one of the worst defenders in the league) and doesn't pass (crazy low assist % throughout his career, especially given the high usage %).

Payton Pritchard gets like 2x the rebounds, despite being way smaller than Walker.

It's nice to have talent, but efficiency is important, defense is important, playing unselfish team basketball is important when it comes to winning basketball. So is consistency, effort/hustle and playing with effort/hustle consistently. His archetype is not a valuable one in the modern NBA. He's had a BPM in the negatives each year in the league.

And it's not like he's some young guy with tons of untapped upside. He's entering his 7th year in the league, will turn 26 in December.

It's not about the Celtics playing possum or Brad trying to not rub it in the face of the other teams. The other 29 NBA teams all passed on offering him a contract this offseason. Those other teams could have had him if they wanted him. I'm sure if some other team offered him a guaranteed contract, he would have taken it over an exhibit 10 deal with the Celtics - otherwise he'd be stupid.

He was on a 1 year veterans minimum contract last season. So it shouldn't be any surprise that he's on an exhibit 10 now. Especially since last season his playing time went way down compared to the year before (went from 23 MPG on a Lakers team that went from the play-in to the WCF to last season only getting 17 MPG on a tanking Nets team. Brooklyn was one of the worst teams in the league - Walker was 11th on the team in MPG and 13th in BPM.

I agree that he has some talent. And I've said this before that probably the only thing this team was lacking in was a guy off the bench who could shoot the 3, create his own shot and had some athleticism. That's what Walker brings so I do like him as a flier for the end of the bench who is a low risk, cheap pickup who could potentially fill the only void that we had on the roster.

But at the same time, Terence davis is out of the league (and he was a better defender than Walker). Wizards and Nuggets fans hated Will Barton because he took dumb shots, was bad on D, made dumb turnovers, etc. Edmond Sumner is out of the league. Evan Fournier is out of the league and was glued to the bench for the Knicks and Pistons over the past couple of years. Jaylen Nowell is out of the league. Shake Milton is barely still in the league. Bucks fans are begging for Connaughton to get traded and they hated Beasley because he couldn't defend and couldn't do anything on offense except hit open catch and shoot 3's. Backup SG is a tough position in the modern NBA. You gotta be really good to stick - you gotta be really good to impact winning..

Walker is like Jordan Clarkson but worse, he's like Kelly Oubre but worse (and smaller). And Oubre was on a 1 year minimum contract last season.

You look at the guys in the league whio are backup SG who are actually good, who contribute to winning and stick around and are getting good contracts:

NWA - elite defender, plays with an edge/toughness to him
Bruce Brown - elite defender, plays with an edge/toughness to him
Pritchard - much more efficient offensively than Walker, much better playmaker/ball mover, much better rebounder, better defender too , plays his tail off, very high IQ player
Isaiah Joe - more efficient as a scorer than Walker, better defender, plays his tail off, very high IQ player
Seth Curry - has always been a crazy high efficiency scorer. Very high IQ player, always makes the right basketball play, not a cone on D, moves the ball to the open man
Mcbride - elite defender, plays with an edge/toughness to him
McConnell - elite at handling the ball, driving, getting to the basket, finishing at the rim, very difficult to guard, which means defenses really gotta focus on him which leaves other guys open and he has very high IQ to be able to hit the open man. Decent enough on D because of how scrappy he is and the heart he plays with, kind of like Pritchard in that regard
Josh Green - really good defender. Can shoot it. Just a solid 3&D type of guy who is also still really young so could have untapped upside to develop..

The common thread with all of the guys listed above is that they are either a) very efficient scorer or b) elite defender. And basically all of them are high IQ, good decision making/good processing on both ends of the floor. Lonnie isn't any of those things..

[Dogen]

From the guys Hal mentions, sure Bruce Brown, Josh Green, McConnell, maybe Isaiah Joe. Great guys to have for some experience and solid D off the bench. But they are not waling through that door. And some of the rest little that are on their way out of the league, meh, I'd easily rather have Walker, especially at the price.

Dude has an "it" factor that imo will really fit as a offensive spark, potential 6th man off the bench.

Spare me about what he did in Brooklyn last year. You wanna play for ping pong balls, or championship trophies? Walker is capable of playing NBA defense, now he has the opportunity to show it.

Get him in there with buddies Derrick and Jrue, he's going to show up.

Or are we talkin' G-League?

We talkin' G-friggin-League?!?

I guess we'll see.

[phincsfan]

Considering last years signings of Oshae, Stevens Svi and Banton, I have a hard time seeing Walker having a negative impact on a game if he makes the roster. And I'm talking about giving him meaningful minutes and not the garbage time the 4 I mentioned were given.

[Celts17Pride]

What is going on?!?!? With this Walker stuff??? G-League????

Team is playing possum with this signing. G-LEAGUE???? LMFAO!

With Porzingis out, Lonnie is, what, 6th best player on the team?

Oh, right. He has to prove it, cuz there are 21 guys all trying to make it.

PUL-EEEZ! OK, yeah, Hauser, Pritchard, and maybe Tillman are going to get significant minutes off the bench. But as far as NBA talent goes? Have people seen Lonnie Walker play? He's better overall talent than those guys.

Now, whether he puts it into a package that fits the team is up to him. But I think it would be a monumental failure on his part to like, --- wait, we talkin' g-league for Lonnie? We talkin' about g-league? This dude can ball already. Talkin' about GLEAGUE?!?!??!

Anyway, they are just downplaying the signing because Brad got another steal, and he's a really good guy that wouldn't rub it in people's faces. Next man up, taking it one day at a time, playing the right way, playing within yourself. Yeah, I get it.

But when Walker gets on fire -- and you know he will at times -- it's gonna bring a new dimension to the bench. A missing piece. A very fun missing piece that just needs to working on locking down on D, which he has the skills to do.

****' G-LEAGUE?????

Money is a big factor.

I personally don't see Walker IV making the 15 man roster unless the Celtics trade someone else (Walsh, Springer etc.) I expect the Celtics to go with 14 players. It's a money issue.

We will see..........

[ConstableGeneva]

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[hugepatsfan]

If they salary dump Pritchard and Springer midseason that would be salary savings of $10,714,792.

For simplicity sake, let's say they do this at the midpoint. They have to backfill those spots now. Let's say they do it with pro rated minimum deals for Lonnie Walker (after he's assigned to the GLeague for the 1st half of the year) and by converting Watson's 2-way deal to an NBA deal. The pro rated amount of those deals would be $1,043,760 for Walker and $578,577 for Watson, so a combined $1,622,336. That's half of their minimum salaries because I used the midpoint, but exact amount depends on when they sign those guys since the deals are pro rated.

Netted with the salary dumps above, that saves $9,092,456. We are currently $7,643,991 above the 2nd apron. So that combination of moves gets us below the 2nd apron. Not far enough to open up any real flexibility for other moves, but it does delay the repeat offender rules by a year. And considering the timeline of the Porzingis deal, there's a good chance it means we can keep this core together for a few years longer without ever having 2nd apron repeat offender rules kicking in down the line.

That's not even to mention the actual money savings of shedding the salary and the tax on it. Practically speaking, the impact of these moves would be Lonnie Walker replacing Pritchard as the 8th man on the team and last guy in the playoff rotation and you'd alleviate 2nd apron repeater concerns and save $40M+.

I'm not necessarily advocating for this series of moves. If Springer doesn't take multiple steps forward he isn't a regular season rotation - let alone playoff rotation - caliber of player so a financially motivated move there makes sense. Trading away a quality rotation piece like Pritchard who's established himself in the team culture well is tough for a contending team. But we all know finance dictates moves in sports sometimes and considering the benefits of this series of moves I think in the grand scheme of things, this seems like something I could live with as a fan.

If Walker bought in on defense on the best team he'll ever have been a part of (common narrative for some guys) then it's not even out of the question he could replicate or even upgrade Pritchard. He's more of a shot creator so might always be some friction there but his frame suggests that with even level of effort he could be better on defense in a lot of matchups.

[Homerclease]

Not only will Walker make this team, he’s going to see rotation minutes early and often. If they’re hung up about money, they’ll either cut Walsh or trade Springer. I think people are making more of a deal about the tax than the Celtics are. The Grousbecks are already getting out way ahead of their initial investment, I don’t see 10 million in tax this season being any detriment at all

[Gant]

Not only will Walker make this team, he’s going to see rotation minutes early and often. If they’re hung up about money, they’ll either cut Walsh or trade Springer. I think people are making more of a deal about the tax than the Celtics are. The Grousbecks are already getting out way ahead of their initial investment, I don’t see 10 million in tax this season being any detriment at all

Thats a good point about the Grousbecks cashing out. Their locked-up profit is about to be unlocked and it's astronomical. Plus Wyc is staying around for a few more years and he wants to win.

The thing about the second apron that made ultra-rich Steve Ballmer and the Clippers blink wasn't money, it was the other restrictions keeping them from getting better. But the Celtics don't have to worry about that right now, because they're already loaded up with talent.

[shi-woo]

What is going on?!?!? With this Walker stuff??? G-League????

Team is playing possum with this signing. G-LEAGUE???? LMFAO!

With Porzingis out, Lonnie is, what, 6th best player on the team?

Oh, right. He has to prove it, cuz there are 21 guys all trying to make it.

PUL-EEEZ! OK, yeah, Hauser, Pritchard, and maybe Tillman are going to get significant minutes off the bench. But as far as NBA talent goes? Have people seen Lonnie Walker play? He's better overall talent than those guys.

Now, whether he puts it into a package that fits the team is up to him. But I think it would be a monumental failure on his part to like, --- wait, we talkin' g-league for Lonnie? We talkin' about g-league? This dude can ball already. Talkin' about GLEAGUE?!?!??!

Anyway, they are just downplaying the signing because Brad got another steal, and he's a really good guy that wouldn't rub it in people's faces. Next man up, taking it one day at a time, playing the right way, playing within yourself. Yeah, I get it.

But when Walker gets on fire -- and you know he will at times -- it's gonna bring a new dimension to the bench. A missing piece. A very fun missing piece that just needs to working on locking down on D, which he has the skills to do.

****' G-LEAGUE?????

You're overselling the guy. He's solid, but is best as a scorer off the bench. Porzingus being out should have no impact on whether Lonnie would get playing time, he's fighting for the bench role behind White at the guard spot. Tillman, Queta, and Kornet are all going to be splitting Porzingus' 30 mins a night till he comes back, and they it will be big by committee.

I don't think Lonnie has proven to be a better player than either Pritchard or Hauser, two guys he certainly wouldn't get minutes over. Both guys are elite shooters off the catch and bounce, proved to make clutch shots, and bring other intangibles to the team like playmaking or positional defense. Those guys play incredible team ball, and are two of the best shooters in the league. Both capable of being the scorer off the bench you want Lonnie to be. The reason those guys are so good is because they know how to play off of other great players and play a role like spacing the floor. Lonnie has never been that type of player, and is a guy who's needed 9 shots a game to get you 10 points for his career. That type of guy is more suited for a role with the Wizards who need NBA talent to get buckets while they tank. Not championship level teams.

Walker is fighting for the minutes that would go to Walsh, Baylor, Watson, and Springer. It would be great to have a legit NBA guard on the roster incase Jrue or White miss time, but I think that's why their is no need to rush this signing, and bring it along slowly. Saves the team money, and they get to see where they are at.

I think Lonnie would have to show a lot in the upcoming scrimmages and camps to get the full year deal, and think Baylor and Springer need to really look bad like they did in the Summer League. As it stands, this is a 10th/11th man signing when you factor in everything.

Kristaps- Al- Queta
Tatum- Tillman
Brown- Hauser
White
Jrue- Pritchard

All those dudes are getting minutes at length at times throughout the year. Lonnie would look good as the 12th rotation piece coming off the bench on games we rest Jrue/White, but i'm not losing sleep if this doesn't work out

[Dogen]

What is going on?!?!? With this Walker stuff??? G-League????

Team is playing possum with this signing. G-LEAGUE???? LMFAO!

With Porzingis out, Lonnie is, what, 6th best player on the team?

Oh, right. He has to prove it, cuz there are 21 guys all trying to make it.

PUL-EEEZ! OK, yeah, Hauser, Pritchard, and maybe Tillman are going to get significant minutes off the bench. But as far as NBA talent goes? Have people seen Lonnie Walker play? He's better overall talent than those guys.

Now, whether he puts it into a package that fits the team is up to him. But I think it would be a monumental failure on his part to like, --- wait, we talkin' g-league for Lonnie? We talkin' about g-league? This dude can ball already. Talkin' about GLEAGUE?!?!??!

Anyway, they are just downplaying the signing because Brad got another steal, and he's a really good guy that wouldn't rub it in people's faces. Next man up, taking it one day at a time, playing the right way, playing within yourself. Yeah, I get it.

But when Walker gets on fire -- and you know he will at times -- it's gonna bring a new dimension to the bench. A missing piece. A very fun missing piece that just needs to working on locking down on D, which he has the skills to do.

****' G-LEAGUE?????

You're overselling the guy. He's solid, but is best as a scorer off the bench. Porzingus being out should have no impact on whether Lonnie would get playing time, he's fighting for the bench role behind White at the guard spot. Tillman, Queta, and Kornet are all going to be splitting Porzingus' 30 mins a night till he comes back, and they it will be big by committee.

I don't think Lonnie has proven to be a better player than either Pritchard or Hauser, two guys he certainly wouldn't get minutes over. Both guys are elite shooters off the catch and bounce, proved to make clutch shots, and bring other intangibles to the team like playmaking or positional defense. Those guys play incredible team ball, and are two of the best shooters in the league. Both capable of being the scorer off the bench you want Lonnie to be. The reason those guys are so good is because they know how to play off of other great players and play a role like spacing the floor. Lonnie has never been that type of player, and is a guy who's needed 9 shots a game to get you 10 points for his career. That type of guy is more suited for a role with the Wizards who need NBA talent to get buckets while they tank. Not championship level teams.

Walker is fighting for the minutes that would go to Walsh, Baylor, Watson, and Springer. It would be great to have a legit NBA guard on the roster incase Jrue or White miss time, but I think that's why their is no need to rush this signing, and bring it along slowly. Saves the team money, and they get to see where they are at.

I think Lonnie would have to show a lot in the upcoming scrimmages and camps to get the full year deal, and think Baylor and Springer need to really look bad like they did in the Summer League. As it stands, this is a 10th/11th man signing when you factor in everything.

Kristaps- Al- Queta
Tatum- Tillman
Brown- Hauser
White
Jrue- Pritchard

All those dudes are getting minutes at length at times throughout the year. Lonnie would look good as the 12th rotation piece coming off the bench on games we rest Jrue/White, but i'm not losing sleep if this doesn't work out

Yes, Lonnie is a scorer off the bench. He's not better than Pritchard or Hauser, but he has a different skill set. Not nearly as good spot up shooter as Hauser, nor a replacement for Pritchard. But he can do things those guys can only dream about. They fit in as open shooters primarily in theconfines of the offense. Lonnie can get buckets. Maybe that's not what Joe wants, but it gives the team another offensive option. He can be a microwave guy off the bench. As for the defense, we shall see, the team has a few weeks to see how he adjusts.

Walsh, Baylor, Watson, and Springer. Out of those guys I see Springer as the defensive yang to Lonnie's offensive ying. Neither is likely to crack the rotation right away, but as specialists they can come in when called up, to replace injures players etc. This year's "next man up" crew. Lonnie is capable of more, but the team is pretty set, so he needs to use this year to take his opportunities when given and show the league he belongs. The other three guys I don't expect much from this year. Maybe Scheierman will surprise, but Lonnie is a 6 year pro already.

You mention that Springer looked really bad in summer league, but that's not what most of us saw. In fact, he played so well that they was off the floor after two games I think. Anyway, that may be an oversite on your part. I'm really bullish on Springer, and would be happy to see him get more opportunity over Walker, due to his defensive prowess. If Springer can hit shots then that is his spot to secure. In the meantime, Walker has a proven track record and a reputation of getting hot. Not a bad option to have on the bench at all.

So I don't think I'm overselling the guy. We agree about what he is: a scorer off the bench. As a vet in the league and the cost, I hope the team really tries to make something work out with him this year. My guess is he'll embrace that microwave role and have at least a few special moments this year that will have the Garden crowd on their feet, even if he's not in the regular rotation.