The Official Lin Net Thread

[TTNN]

I think Nets is really missing Lin's P&R defense. Even Lin only played 4 and a half games, he still defended 4th most P&R ball handler possessions. And he gives up only 0.77 points per possession, which is pretty good.

When he is injured, his replacement Yogi, Isaiah, Sean are all giving up close to 0.9 points/possession.

[leeramundo]

Do you have any references/stats indicating that Westbrook has better lateral quickness?

I don't have stats. I have to go by the eye test. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Lin has exceptional speed and first step, but the lateral quickness is just ok.

LOL, nice way to argue.

"Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't."

" If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't think I am."

He said he went by the eye test. When stats aren't available, that's all you got. What's your argument?

[TTNN]

I don't have stats. I have to go by the eye test. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Lin has exceptional speed and first step, but the lateral quickness is just ok.

LOL, nice way to argue.

"Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't."

" If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't think I am."

He said he went by the eye test. When stats aren't available, that's all you got. What's your argument?

I don't have my argument. I only question his/her argument. Since I'm not aware of any combine or pre-draft test ever test lateral quickness. There is no stats could be a good indication of lateral quickness. Even eye test, what is your criteria to define a good lateral quickness? I never see anyone has a convincing way to define it.

However, I'm amazed at people who are in the same position as me, without stats, without a good way to define it, purely by their own personal impression, could say it in such a confidence as "Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't."

Lin has good agility, speed, coordination, and balance. I don't get why he has to have slow lateral quickness, especially compare to guys his size. I just don't buy the logic.

I know people always said he can't have a good defense because he doesn't have good lateral quickness, but he improved his defense for sure these couple of years, does that means he improved his lateral quickness?

Just ask couple questions you would know why those claims are bold and do not make sense, and it is super misleading and is a typical lazy argument. If you buy that kind of argument, sure, go ahead. I don't. That's all.

[bws94]

LOL, nice way to argue.

"Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't."

" If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't think I am."

He said he went by the eye test. When stats aren't available, that's all you got. What's your argument?

I don't have my argument. I only question his/her argument. Since I'm not aware of any combine or pre-draft test ever test lateral quickness. There is no stats could be a good indication of lateral quickness. Even eye test, what is your criteria to define a good lateral quickness? I never see anyone has a convincing way to define it.

However, I'm amazed at people who are in the same position as me, without stats, without a good way to define it, purely by their own personal impression, could say it in such a confidence as "Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't."

Lin has good agility, speed, coordination, and balance. I don't get why he has to have slow lateral quickness, especially compare to guys his size. I just don't buy the logic.

I know people always said he can't have a good defense because he doesn't have good lateral quickness, but he improved his defense for sure these couple of years, does that means he improved his lateral quickness?

Just ask couple questions you would know why those claims are bold and do not make sense, and it is super misleading and is a typical lazy argument. If you buy that kind of argument, sure, go ahead. I don't. That's all.

Paul D says Lin doesn't have great lateral movement as well, and he provides no stats. It seems it is something some Lin fans don't want to accept so they get upset when someone dare think that it may be just something that Lin may not possess. This argument that Lin is so big, where there are a bunch of other guys his height, playing the position is a weak one to me. I think Lin is a way better than average defender but looking at basketball for many decades and seeing many different players play, I'll stick with Lin's lateral acceleration isn't up to his level of straight-line acceleration and speed.

You just have a bug up your butt sometimes about things I say. Well, too bad.

[qiantom]

I do not see what the big deal is about lateral quickness. It is just one aspect of defense. And lateral quickness for his size? He has to defend midgets like IT so what is the point of only comparing to players of his size? He may be slow laterally due to his size but his size also gives him advantages on defense, and offense.

I think it is pretty fair to say Lin is below average among PGs in terms of lateral quickness. It may be due to size or other factors but nobody cares and there is no way to tell for sure. So no need to over-analyze.

Hope Lin comes back healthy soon so that people can have more meaningful discussions.

[tonman]

If you are short you need lateral quickness to move the ball handler as far a path from the basket. Lin is 6-3 so against shorter players he can just jump over them. The issue is mainly the penetration and pass not necessarily the scoring.

[Vae Victus]

Lins D is fine. It's whether he can be consistent on the offensive end which is what will really determine his value to a team.

Nowadays the PG spot doesn't need a good defender. It's simply not as important as having elite interior rim protection or having a perimeter defensive ace on the roster (currently filled by RHJ).

[sutton]

Taiwan WeiLai TV commentator said Lin will play next game, any truth to that?

[leeramundo]

Taiwan WeiLai TV commentator said Lin will play next game, any truth to that?

I don't know, I don't see why they would have information that the Brooklyn media doesn't.

[TTNN]

He said he went by the eye test. When stats aren't available, that's all you got. What's your argument?

I don't have my argument. I only question his/her argument. Since I'm not aware of any combine or pre-draft test ever test lateral quickness. There is no stats could be a good indication of lateral quickness. Even eye test, what is your criteria to define a good lateral quickness? I never see anyone has a convincing way to define it.

However, I'm amazed at people who are in the same position as me, without stats, without a good way to define it, purely by their own personal impression, could say it in such a confidence as "Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't."

Lin has good agility, speed, coordination, and balance. I don't get why he has to have slow lateral quickness, especially compare to guys his size. I just don't buy the logic.

I know people always said he can't have a good defense because he doesn't have good lateral quickness, but he improved his defense for sure these couple of years, does that means he improved his lateral quickness?

Just ask couple questions you would know why those claims are bold and do not make sense, and it is super misleading and is a typical lazy argument. If you buy that kind of argument, sure, go ahead. I don't. That's all.

Paul D says Lin doesn't have great lateral movement as well, and he provides no stats. It seems it is something some Lin fans don't want to accept so they get upset when someone dare think that it may be just something that Lin may not possess. This argument that Lin is so big, where there are a bunch of other guys his height, playing the position is a weak one to me. I think Lin is a way better than average defender but looking at basketball for many decades and seeing many different players play, I'll stick with Lin's lateral acceleration isn't up to his level of straight-line acceleration and speed.

You just have a bug up your butt sometimes about things I say. Well, too bad.

Yeah, I do have a thing with things you said because they don't have logic.

Just give me an example ever that somebody's "lateral acceleration is up to his level of straight-line acceleration and speed. " If that's your base of defining who has good lateral acceleration, and you claim Lin is bad at it, then give me an example who is good.

(Well, I can help you here, if it is not limited to humans, then crab is the only example I could think of that have better lateral speed than straight-line speed.) jk

BTW, I have to point out that you are trying to move the target and refine your own argument here (still without logic), my original problem with you was about the tone in your sentence "Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't." I hope I have made myself clear enough, I have a problem with that attitude.

You again conclude that some Lin fans (I know you are a Lin fan too) could not take any shortcomings Lin had, which again is not true, and is a lazy argument. Just because we don't take claims of Lin's shortcoming without logical support does not mean we don't take any. Come on, we are more logical than you think. I wouldn't argue with you if you have good logic and good supporting material.

oh, the third point, if you got questioned to made a claim, and if you could not counter it, turn it into a personal attack to accuse them as crazy Lin fans could not stand people state Lin is not perfect does not win you any respect. I have seen that and was treated that way a couple of years now, hate to see our fellow Lin fans pick up that lazy tactic and bully mentally. I thought you are better than that.

[TTNN]

I do not see what the big deal is about lateral quickness. It is just one aspect of defense. And lateral quickness for his size? He has to defend midgets like IT so what is the point of only comparing to players of his size? He may be slow laterally due to his size but his size also gives him advantages on defense, and offense.

I think it is pretty fair to say Lin is below average among PGs in terms of lateral quickness. It may be due to size or other factors but nobody cares and there is no way to tell for sure. So no need to over-analyze.

Hope Lin comes back healthy soon so that people can have more meaningful discussions.

agree with you, defense has a lot more than lateral quickness. Strength, length, read, angle, teammates help etc. all play into it. Even players who had all the physical tools to be a good defender, might not be one. One good example is Jeremy Lamb. He had the length, the leap, the quickness, but still not a good defender, yet.

That's why I really don't like people just pick on one side of it and jump onto a conclusion quick.

[bws94]

I don't have my argument. I only question his/her argument. Since I'm not aware of any combine or pre-draft test ever test lateral quickness. There is no stats could be a good indication of lateral quickness. Even eye test, what is your criteria to define a good lateral quickness? I never see anyone has a convincing way to define it.

However, I'm amazed at people who are in the same position as me, without stats, without a good way to define it, purely by their own personal impression, could say it in such a confidence as "Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't."

Lin has good agility, speed, coordination, and balance. I don't get why he has to have slow lateral quickness, especially compare to guys his size. I just don't buy the logic.

I know people always said he can't have a good defense because he doesn't have good lateral quickness, but he improved his defense for sure these couple of years, does that means he improved his lateral quickness?

Just ask couple questions you would know why those claims are bold and do not make sense, and it is super misleading and is a typical lazy argument. If you buy that kind of argument, sure, go ahead. I don't. That's all.

Paul D says Lin doesn't have great lateral movement as well, and he provides no stats. It seems it is something some Lin fans don't want to accept so they get upset when someone dare think that it may be just something that Lin may not possess. This argument that Lin is so big, where there are a bunch of other guys his height, playing the position is a weak one to me. I think Lin is a way better than average defender but looking at basketball for many decades and seeing many different players play, I'll stick with Lin's lateral acceleration isn't up to his level of straight-line acceleration and speed.

You just have a bug up your butt sometimes about things I say. Well, too bad.

Yeah, I do have a thing with things you said because they don't have logic.

Just give me an example ever that somebody's "lateral acceleration is up to his level of straight-line acceleration and speed. " If that's your base of defining who has good lateral acceleration, and you claim Lin is bad at it, then give me an example who is good.

(Well, I can help you here, if it is not limited to humans, then crab is the only example I could think of that have better lateral speed than straight-line speed.) jk

BTW, I have to point out that you are trying to move the target and refine your own argument here (still without logic), my original problem with you was about the tone in your sentence "Lin doesn't have great lateral quickness because he doesn't." I hope I have made myself clear enough, I have a problem with that attitude.

You again conclude that some Lin fans (I know you are a Lin fan too) could not take any shortcomings Lin had, which again is not true, and is a lazy argument. Just because we don't take claims of Lin's shortcoming without logical support does not mean we don't take any. Come on, we are more logical than you think. I wouldn't argue with you if you have good logic and good supporting material.

oh, the third point, if you got questioned to made a claim, and if you could not counter it, turn it into a personal attack to accuse them as crazy Lin fans could not stand people state Lin is not perfect does not win you any respect. I have seen that and was treated that way a couple of years now, hate to see our fellow Lin fans pick up that lazy tactic and bully mentally. I thought you are better than that.

I don't use stats, not my thing. There's no logic need be applied. What's the big deal about saying Lin's lateral acceleration isn't the best? Huh? PFV said so and a whole bunch others did yet you hem and haw and get annoyed when I say it. You say I have some double standard for Lin that doesn't exist. I have my opinion and observations about Lin as do you. Fans don't always agree and that's just the way it is. And as far as I'm concerned, stats don't tell everything. Lin's ability to be a factor in winning is why I watch him and how he's able to raise the play of those around him, especially if he has chemistry with them. And I think Lin is a clutch player as well on both ends of the floor. I have plenty of praise for Lin and occasional criticism.

I'm not looking for anyone's damned respect, particularly yours. And I'm tired of dealing with fans like you and some on Portal that are just too thinned skinned about even the most minor critique of Lin's game. I think Lin is a way better than average defender, but I don't like how he over helps and I don't find his lateral movement to match the elite level of his straight line movement. That's my observation and my freaking opinion. Get it? All players get critiqued, whether the person doing the critique is wrong or right. Including LIn. And nobody is always right or wrong.

[bws94]

I do not see what the big deal is about lateral quickness. It is just one aspect of defense. And lateral quickness for his size? He has to defend midgets like IT so what is the point of only comparing to players of his size? He may be slow laterally due to his size but his size also gives him advantages on defense, and offense.

I think it is pretty fair to say Lin is below average among PGs in terms of lateral quickness. It may be due to size or other factors but nobody cares and there is no way to tell for sure. So no need to over-analyze.

Hope Lin comes back healthy soon so that people can have more meaningful discussions.

agree with you, defense has a lot more than lateral quickness. Strength, length, read, angle, teammates help etc. all play into it. Even players who had all the physical tools to be a good defender, might not be one. One good example is Jeremy Lamb. He had the length, the leap, the quickness, but still not a good defender, yet.

That's why I really don't like people just pick on one side of it and jump onto a conclusion quick.

Right, and who said LIn was a bad defender or the other factors didn't matter? Just that his lateral quickness is not one of the best factors in his defense. That's all. It isn't that big a deal.

[PG13]

Some people just need to get off the high horse and trash that "I'm a more level-headed Lin fan than most of you" attitude. And the passive-aggressiveness is so transparent.

[hood30]

Should we 100% assume Lin won't be playing tonight?

[Prokorov]

We have a bottom 3 defense. Lin is at least an average defender... he isnt the problem especially since PG defense is the least impotant on the court. This team will never not be bad defensively as long as bogs/lopez are on the team playing major minutes

[fafan]

Should we 100% assume Lin won't be playing tonight?

Sadly yes. still no timeline

[fafan]

Lin already had a hard 45-minute workout this Monday.Don't know why still wait so long. Are they expect he play 40 minutes as soon as he back?

[Prokorov]

Lin already had a hard 45-minute workout this Monday.Don't know why still wait so long. Are they expect he play 40 minutes as soon as he back?

Why not wait? what benefit is there to come back earlier rather then later? wins arent the focus, having him healthy and not risking him reinjuring it are much more important.

i think week 1 december is most likely

[fafan]

Lin already had a hard 45-minute workout this Monday.Don't know why still wait so long. Are they expect he play 40 minutes as soon as he back?

Why not wait? what benefit is there to come back earlier rather then later? wins arent the focus, having him healthy and not risking him reinjuring it are much more important.

i think week 1 december is most likely

Yes, rest is better if still recover. But Lin can do 45 minutes hard workout 5 days ago, his body was ready. It doesn't mean wait longer always better. Start playing like 10-20 minutes in game will help him find feeling back and be more ready.