All Things Luka Doncic

[Nikson]

Btw, I want to introduce this gem from reanimator, to demonstrate his gifts as a talent evaluator.

For the question that who will be the biggest bust from the 2015 draft, he answered that:

Out of guys in lotto consideration, its Devin Booker for me. Porzingis would be next as he can go either way.

LMAO, he literally picked the two best prospects to bust, one of whom scored 70 since, and the other one looks like a perennial MVP candidate, in his third year. Doncic's superstardom confirmed, I guess?

Brutal.

[Johnny Firpo]

He is skilled but no i dont honestly believe hes anywhere as skilled as russell is or at least at the monent. Russell has great court vision, can shoot, pass, handle and use the pnr at high level and will only continue to get better. If he is as skilled as russell doncic can also be perennial allstar.

Respectfully, I think you are wrong, and haven't watched him enough. I watched them both excessively, and I can assure you that Doncic overall is more skilled. Definitely better/more creative passer, and a better shooter.

D'Angelo has yet to crack 80% free throw shooting in the NBA, and currently shooting 68%, which is pitiful. Doncic was a 82% free throw shooter last year, and 86% now, drawing 4.8 fouls in the Euroleague and ACB (combined stats), in only 25 minutes. Doncic is shooting the three ball around 35%, but takes tons of hero shots, which he probably won't take in the NBA.

I expect him to be a 36-37% long range shooter in his rookie year, which is something Russell hasn't done so far. Their handles are hard to compare, because Russell likes to fancy it up, but I would argue that Doncic is more dependable.

The only thing Russell might be better - right now! 18-year-old Russell DOES NOT compare in any way - is creating his own shot. Overall, Doncic is a far superior prospect than Russell was, I really don't think that's even debatable. Obviously, you never truly know until they do it, or don't, but Doncic should project to be a much better player than Russell.

[Juree93]

Btw, I want to introduce this gem from reanimator, to demonstrate his gifts as a talent evaluator.

For the question that who will be the biggest bust from the 2015 draft, he answered that:

Out of guys in lotto consideration, its Devin Booker for me. Porzingis would be next as he can go either way.

LMAO, he literally picked the two best prospects to bust, one of whom scored 70 since, and the other one looks like a perennial MVP candidate, in his third year. Doncic's superstardom confirmed, I guess?

please read that:
https://cleaningtheglass.com/you-f-up-sometimes/

There are no absolutes in draft.. And yeah as Vinokurov said last year..

“THERE’S A GOOD CHANCE WE GET TO NEXT APRIL AND [DONCIC] IS THE MOST POLARIZING PLAYER IN THE DRAFT. WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A PLAYER LIKE HIM BEFORE, IN TERMS OF WHAT HE’S DONE IN EUROPE AT HIS AGE. I’M USUALLY A GUY WHO’S QUICK TO COME UP WITH COMPARISONS, BUT NO ONE REALLY COMES TO MIND. HE’S ONE OF A KIND.”
https://www.theringer.com/2017/7/20/16077958/nba-draft-luka-doncic-real-madrid-f534e7428bf6

Reality is nobody knows how good Doncic can be. i mean best scouts are always making mistakes. Its risky business. And yet here we are talking in absolutes and only "one" or "mine" opinion is right.. fact is Doncic is one of the best 18 y.o. players. But where is the room for growth and how much? cant we have normal debate here? And that same sh*t happens every few pages again and again. if anythink i completly agree with that Vinokurou quote. /rant off

[reanimator]

Doncic is at least 15 pounds heavier than Hayward was when he was drafted, which was at, what, 20? Doncic is much stronger than rookie Hayward was, all that while still having a little bit of baby fat. There is no good comparison for him, you would have to combine players to get there.

Btw, I want to introduce this gem from reanimator, to demonstrate his gifts as a talent evaluator.

For the question that who will be the biggest bust from the 2015 draft, he answered that:

Out of guys in lotto consideration, its Devin Booker for me. Porzingis would be next as he can go either way.

LMAO, he literally picked the two best prospects to bust, one of whom scored 70 since, and the other one looks like a perennial MVP candidate, in his third year. Doncic's superstardom confirmed, I guess?

Towns and Turner are better players than Booker.

And what an odd an insecure thing to go back through my post history.

I suppose you thought that would look bad on my part but it makes you look sad.

That said, everyone has bad takes. I didn't say Porzingis was a bust, I clearly said its 50/50 which was fair.

Booker, I don't even like in 2017, but given how Cal used him, I definitely undersold his ability off the dribble.

Now how is any of this relevant to Doncic, other than you being a crybaby?

[reanimator]

Btw, Reanimator's gem was good for something other than revealing his gifts, what about a Booker with elite playmaking comp? How does that sound? There are some similarities, they are/were both branded unathletic, similar size, good, but maybe not elite shooting touch. Not perfect, obviously, Doncic is a little bit bigger, stronger, much better passer, but... There are some similarities.

Booker was not an elite playmaker at UK.

All you are doing is showing you're a complete and utter weirdo.

[Johnny Firpo]

Btw, I want to introduce this gem from reanimator, to demonstrate his gifts as a talent evaluator.

For the question that who will be the biggest bust from the 2015 draft, he answered that:

Out of guys in lotto consideration, its Devin Booker for me. Porzingis would be next as he can go either way.

LMAO, he literally picked the two best prospects to bust, one of whom scored 70 since, and the other one looks like a perennial MVP candidate, in his third year. Doncic's superstardom confirmed, I guess?

please read that:
https://cleaningtheglass.com/you-f-up-sometimes/

There are no absolutes in draft.. And yeah as Vinokurov said last year..

“THERE’S A GOOD CHANCE WE GET TO NEXT APRIL AND [DONCIC] IS THE MOST POLARIZING PLAYER IN THE DRAFT. WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A PLAYER LIKE HIM BEFORE, IN TERMS OF WHAT HE’S DONE IN EUROPE AT HIS AGE. I’M USUALLY A GUY WHO’S QUICK TO COME UP WITH COMPARISONS, BUT NO ONE REALLY COMES TO MIND. HE’S ONE OF A KIND.”
https://www.theringer.com/2017/7/20/16077958/nba-draft-luka-doncic-real-madrid-f534e7428bf6

Reality is nobody knows how good Doncic can be. i mean best scouts are always making mistakes. Its risky business. And yet here we are talking in absolutes and only "one" or "mine" opinion is right.. fact is Doncic is one of the best 18 y.o. players. But where is the room for growth and how much? cant we have normal debate here? And that same sh*t happens every few pages again and again. if anythink i completly agree with that Vinokurou quote. /rant off

No, you are totally right, and this is the exact reason why Reanimator deserves every ridiculing he gets, because it is exactly him, who argues in absolutes, and simply ignores common sense. You could have directed this article at him. You are 100% right, we never know, because you can't know what's in a player's heart and head, how do they react to certain things. And yet, he puts a ridiculously low ceiling on Doncic's abilities arguing in absolutes, completely ignoring the level of competition he currently excels against, how the space and pace era is perfect for Doncic's playing style and strengths, ignores/undersells his strengths, and regularly compares him to 22, 23, 25, 26 year old players, and their current physical and skill-based abilities. I don't really feel I overstepped, people in this thread should understand that he is talking out of his behind, and not only that, he has a history of anti-Euro bias on this forum.

[reanimator]

No, you are totally right, and this is the exact reason why Reanimator deserves every ridiculing he gets, because it is exactly him, who argues in absolutes, and simply ignores common sense. You could have directed your article at him. You are 100% right, we never know, and yet he puts a ridiculously low ceiling on Doncic's abilities completely ignoring the level of competition he currently excels against, how the space and pace era is perfect for Doncic's playing style and strengths, and regularly compares 22, 23, 25, 26 year old players to him.

I'm one of the few posters in the thread NOT dealing in absolutes

Meanwhile you have declaratively and demonstratively said he is better than this and that guy, figured out his peak NBA stat line, and compared him to HOF level talents

A taller D'Angelo Russell, a high end starter, and a top 3 lottery pick is a low ceiling?

Maybe I should go through your post history just to show this thread what kind of weirdo we are dealing with.

[Johnny Firpo]

I'm one of the few posters in the thread NOT dealing in absolutes

Meanwhile you have declaratively and demonstratively said he is better than this and that guy, figured out his peak NBA stat line, and compared him to HOF level talents

A taller D'Angelo Russell, a high end starter, and a top 3 lottery pick is a low ceiling?

Maybe I should go through your post history just to show this thread what kind of weirdo we are dealing with.

Nonsense. Are there a few homers? Sure. I did not say that he is better than this or that guy. I probably said he has better tools than this or that, and how I think he is a better prospect. And no, I'm not saying that a taller D'Angelo Russell, a high-end starter would be a low ceiling. I'm saying Doncic has better tools, and sure, I also said that I think he will translate pretty well and will be a better player than Russell. But I'm not saying it's a guarantee, or if I said, I acknowledge it now that there is no guarantee. Meanwhile, you already said numerous times that Doncic cannot be more than a good starter in the NBA. That's an absolute.

And yes, please go ahead and search my posting history. I guarantee you that you will not find a more ridiculous/funnier post than yours. Was I wrong about some prospects? Probably, or even obviously, but I never went out of my way to take on a group of posters, fueled by a preexisting bias. You are dead set on this thing now, you are invested in it, and refuse to change your stance, even though Doncic is improving day by day. You completely ignored his EC campaign, and you are ignoring his current production.

It is clear that at this point you will not move, and you are only doing this for the small chance that you are right, and you can say a big "told you so" here. And honestly, it's pretty tiring. You are ruining this thread with your borderline trolling posts, sandwiched between ignorant scouting tidbits.

[reanimator]

Nonsense. Are there a few homers? Sure. I did not say that he is better than this or that guy. I probably said he has better tools than this or that, and how I think he is a better prospect. And no, I'm not saying that a taller D'Angelo Russell, a high-end starter would be a low ceiling. I'm saying Doncic has better tools, and sure, I think he will translate pretty well and will be a better player than Russell, but I'm not saying it's a guarantee. Meanwhile you already said numerous times that Doncic cannot be more than a borderline All-Star in the NBA. That's an absolute.

And yes, please go ahead and search my posting history. I guarantee you that you will not find a more ridiculous/funnier post than yours. Was I wrong about some prospects? Probably, or even obviously, but I never went out of my way to take on a group of posters. You are dead set on this thing now, you are obviously invested in it, and you completely ignored his EC campaign, and you are ignoring his current production.

It is clear that at this point you will not move, and you are only doing this for the small chance that you are right, and you can say a big "told you so" here. And honestly, it's pretty tiring. You are ruining this thread with your nonsense/borderline trolling posts, sandwiched between ignorant scouting tidbits.

I haven't stated what Doncic "cannot be." In fact, I've beat the drum about areas I'd like to see him develop to raise his ceiling.

Unlike you, my evaluations are fluid and I'm willing to change my opinions when given new information.

What I have done is dismiss HOF comps and stylistic comps that make absolutely no sense. Sorry, Magic Johnson and James Harden being thrown around nonchalantly is absurd.

If saying a rail thin kid who play sparingly overseas is 50/50 when a large contingency thought he was an absolute bust is the best you can do than I'll take that. Not going to reciprocate the weirdness and go through your post history.

Keep thinking you can keep quoting me ad nauseum attempting to shove your view down my throat.

Stay mad fam lol.

[Johnny Firpo]

I haven't stated what Doncic "cannot be." In fact, I've beat the drum about areas I'd like to see him develop to raise his ceiling.

You did both, but I'm not gonna quote any more of your old posts, that one speaks for itself (what about Booker, hello?). Btw. I found 5 other just as bad in like 10 minutes, and several more where your preexisting euro bias showed. At this point your biased against this kid is clear for anyone with a brain, and you obviously know it too, but will never admit it, so we might as well just move on, and not derail this thread anymore. You were exposed a long time ago, and you haven't changed your posting habits.

[Johnny Firpo]

Btw, Reanimator's gem was good for something other than revealing his gifts, what about a Booker with elite playmaking comp? How does that sound? There are some similarities, they are/were both branded unathletic, similar size, good, but maybe not elite shooting touch. Not perfect, obviously, Doncic is a little bit bigger, stronger, much better passer, but... There are some similarities.

Booker was not an elite playmaker at UK.

All you are doing is showing you're a complete and utter weirdo.

It would have been a weirdo thing if I browsed your old posts for hours, but again, it required me 10 minutes to find them. You know why it was easy? I simply searched for threads about Euro prospects. But again, let's drop this, I'm sorry I brought this up again, I wrote down everything I wanted to tell about the subject already. Switching back to the discussion, I am honestly interested in your opinion, and other's as well, about who would be an ideal NBA comp for him? Because I can't find one either, black or white player. Maybe Chris Mullin as a ceiling/comp? I didn't really see him play that much, height, athleticism is maybe similar.

[reanimator]

I haven't stated what Doncic "cannot be." In fact, I've beat the drum about areas I'd like to see him develop to raise his ceiling.

You did both, but I'm not gonna quote any more of your old posts, that one speaks for itself (what about Booker, hello?). Btw. I found 5 other just as bad in like 10 minutes, and several more where your preexisting euro bias showed. At this point your biased against this kid is clear for anyone with a brain, and you obviously know it too, but will never admit it, so we might as well just move on, and not derail this thread anymore. You were exposed a long time ago, and you haven't changed your posting habits.

 


Booker the inefficient chucker who doesn't defend but is putting up volume production on one of the worst teams in the league?

let me get my weirdo on too...

This was your take on Saric

His actual value is much more than his trading value. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he becomes an All-Star. With his improved shooting and defense, he has one relative weakness, athleticism, but since he is a 6'10 in today's league, and laterally quite coordinated and quick, I'm not even sure that this will be a weakness. I wouldn't be shocked if he is the best player of the Sixers in 2-3 years.

This is your take on Dragan Bender (who I actually like a little long term) :

Quick eye test, reminds me of Zingis

He is not as athletic and doesn't have the defensive instincts that Kristaps has. I would say he is more like a taller, more athletic Ryan Anderson or Tim Thomas if you have the lazy white-white comparisons.

[AussieBuck]

He's got some young Gallo + elite passing. Really, really safe pick.

[Johnny Firpo]

Reanimator, I swear this is the last one, but you also said that Doncic is not more skilled than Josh Jackson. Wow, come on, you cannot be serious. Jackson was drafted for his explosiveness and defensive skills. As a ball handler, he has a low-risk style, quickly going to his moves. He is not even someone who you would consider a "dribbler". He is a space ball handler. He was a solid passer in the NCAA, I guess. Overall, he has NOTHING on Doncic as a creator and ball-handler, and he doesn't have a post game. What made you say Doncic is not more skilled? I'm honestly baffled, because we are talking about skills now, not even athleticism. Saying that Doncic is not more skilled than Josh Jackson is absolutely, batcrap crazy.

[jonjames]

He is skilled but no i dont honestly believe hes anywhere as skilled as russell is or at least at the monent. Russell has great court vision, can shoot, pass, handle and use the pnr at high level and will only continue to get better. If he is as skilled as russell doncic can also be perennial allstar.

Respectfully, I think you are wrong, and haven't watched him enough. I watched them both excessively, and I can assure you that Doncic overall is more skilled. Definitely better/more creative passer, and a better shooter.

D'Angelo has yet to crack 80% free throw shooting in the NBA, and currently shooting 68%, which is pitiful. Doncic was a 82% free throw shooter last year, and 86% now, drawing 4.8 fouls in the Euroleague and ACB (combined stats), in only 25 minutes. Doncic is shooting the three ball around 35%, but takes tons of hero shots, which he probably won't take in the NBA.

I expect him to be a 36-37% long range shooter in his rookie year, which is something Russell hasn't done so far. Their handles are hard to compare, because Russell likes to fancy it up, but I would argue that Doncic is more dependable.

The only thing Russell might be better - right now! 18-year-old Russell DOES NOT compare in any way - is creating his own shot. Overall, Doncic is a far superior prospect than Russell was, I really don't think that's even debatable. Obviously, you never truly know until they do it, or don't, but Doncic should project to be a much better player than Russell.

I consider Russell a future perennial allstar so if this kid projects much better than Russell..were talking about a future HOF generational player..idk about that but we shall see how it unfolds.

[pacersGM]

I never said doncic peaked as a complete player, but is close to his peak when we are talking about explosiveness and quickness.

And when we are talking about potential and complete players. Burst quickness and explosiveness are a big part of that package, and doncic will never be a complete package because of his lack there of. So no HOF stratosphere prediction here. If he becomes a great shooter in no time like the word around here goes, then he becomes kyle korver/if shooting will be his special skill. If he becomes good at everything then he is a valuable starter in the nba / hayward production / status max.

[juanc]

First of all, I just don't understand how you guys can say that you can't be a great/allstar/HOF player without physical tools? It's the exact opposite.. You cann't be a great player without skill/bbal IQ.
I understand your scepticism, becouse of all the busts in recent history, but please stop with the Hezonja comp.. Hezonja's celling is last years Doncic... Mario has the mentality of Johhny Bravo, while Luka is mentally as strong as Michael Phepls,,

I also think that Luka is the least physicaly developed player in the whole lottery. I think he will improve the most in terms of quickness, strenght,...
I've got a question for all of you. How would you rank the top5 candidates in terms of BBal IQ? WHo do you think has the lowest one and why?

[Johnny Firpo]

:lol:

Booker the inefficient chucker who doesn't defend but is putting up volume production on one of the worst teams in the league?

let me get my weirdo on too...

This was your take on Saric

His actual value is much more than his trading value. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he becomes an All-Star. With his improved shooting and defense, he has one relative weakness, athleticism, but since he is a 6'10 in today's league, and laterally quite coordinated and quick, I'm not even sure that this will be a weakness. I wouldn't be shocked if he is the best player of the Sixers in 2-3 years.

This is your take on Dragan Bender (who I actually like a little long term) :

Quick eye test, reminds me of Zingis

He is not as athletic and doesn't have the defensive instincts that Kristaps has. I would say he is more like a taller, more athletic Ryan Anderson or Tim Thomas if you have the lazy white-white comparisons.

The Saric one is not that bad, apart from the fact that he doesn't have a chance to be better than Embiid or Simmons, but then again, I didn't say he will be, I said it wouldn't shock me, because of how well he played then, and because of Embiid's and Simmons' injuries. And the Bender one is factual, I think. KP has much better defensive instincts, and Bender is being used as a floor spacer, only he cannot hit crap. This actually shows that - unlike you - I am not writing absolutes. You haven't tried to defend your ridiculous Doncic-Josh Jackson statement yet, btw. I'm curious to see what you have there, because I'm telling you, not even the biggest Doncic haters would agree with that. Jackson is a space dribbler, doesn't have a post game, cannot pass nearly as well as Doncic, and you say the Slovenian is not more skilled... Completely ridiculous statement, actually worse than your failed bust prediction, which says quite a lot.

[Johnny Firpo]

I consider Russell a future perennial allstar so if this kid projects much better than Russell..were talking about a future HOF generational player..idk about that but we shall see how it unfolds.

I'm high(ish) on Russell too, especially this season, but yeah, I do think that Doncic's ceiling is above that, for sure. Whether he reaches it or not we obviously can't know, but he is in that Petrovic, Sabonis, Dirk, Pau Gasol, Tony Parker group as far as potential European Hall of Famers go, for sure. That's his ceiling, there is no doubt about it, and he is probably better - and in fact much better - than any of them were at the age of 18, well, maybe with the exception of Sabonis. The only Europeans who have a higher ceiling right now are KP, Giannis and Jokic, both of whom are/will be multiple all-stars, but based on their potential/current production/advanced stats are also likely HOF candidates.

[Fight4]

I never said doncic peaked as a complete player, but is close to his peak when we are talking about explosiveness and quickness.

And when we are talking about potential and complete players. Burst quickness and explosiveness are a big part of that package, and doncic will never be a complete package because of his lack there of. So no HOF stratosphere prediction here. If he becomes a great shooter in no time like the word around here goes, then he becomes kyle korver/if shooting will be his special skill. If he becomes good at everything then he is a valuable starter in the nba / hayward production / status max.

I don't comment a lot, but I also cannot allow this stupidity to continue.

No 18 years old person on this planet ever peacked physicaly or mentaly at 18 years. This is a fact, this is reality, this is biology.

Only way you reach your peak at 18 is, if you die before turning 19 (I know it's a contradicting statement, but it serves the purpose).

Now specificaly about Doncic

Doncic is not physically well prepared, even by standards of amateur athletes. Not only is he not in shape but it's clear he never had a proper consistent physical exercises. This is normal for 18 years old, there's nothing wrong with it, but his body is now mature and he needs to start working on it.

His lack of quickness is a result of his body type. First let me tell you that Doncic has excellent frame for someone at 18 years old, one of the best body types you could possibly want. Now back to quckness or lack of. He has heavy legs, which are naturaly unresponsive (do not apear explosive). This kind of legs are extremely strong and resilient, but not quick. Good news is that quickness and explosiveness can be trained into them.

Doncic can become one of the most athletic players in the NBA, but he will need to put thousands hours of work into doing correct physical exercises.

I put that statement in bold, because I know some people will have a problem with it and try to offer their expert opinion on how wrong I am.

The difference between them and me is that I have trained for years, put thousands of hours into exercises which are way more demanding then anything most basketball players will ever do. I also have similar type of body as Doncic, so I know exactly what problems he has to overcome. For people who will want to respond to this, I got no interest to debate, do not waste time writing some over-emotional response full of opinions based on nothing.

If this is by any chance read by someone who knows Doncic or can reach him. Give him this info:
Hire a proffesional coach specificaly for phisical preparedness (basketball coaches do not have the required knowledge).
If you are willing to work hard, you can through consistent exercises for next 2 to 3 year, reach levels of physical abilities you cannot even imagine right now. There will be sacrificed through this period, both in your private life and career, but time invested now, will reward you for the rest of your life. Put specific emphasis on exercise for leg strength and explosiveness but always train your whole body as a whole, or you will suffer injuries.
Remember this quote: The harder I work, the luckier I get.