2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[bwgood77]

Here's a nice stat for the idiots who want to trade Oubre for picks and pieces:

Booker, Ayton, Bridges on court

with Oubre on court: 119.2 OffRtg, 104.4 DefRtg, +14.7 NetRtg
with Oubre off court: 112.7 OffRtg, 118.8 DefRtg, -6.2 NetRtg

You left out a big part of that.

Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Rubio +18.6
Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Okobo -10.9

Rubio is the primary difference maker (in large part due to the drop off in PG quality when he sits), but when all of Booker, Ayton, Bridges and Oubre are on the court, Rubio usually was too, because that became our best lineup.

You play with 5 players. Looking at 4 man units or fewer, never show nearly the full picture, especially in our case when you know the drop off in PG quality from one to another is massive.

I'm not advocating trading Oubre for picks and pieces though.

Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Ayton:
Oubre on court 121.6 OffRtg, 101.4 DefRtg, +20.2 NetRtg (226 minutes)
Oubre off court 117.2 OffRtg, 117.9 DefRtg, -0.7 NetRtg (156 minutes)

Oubre, Booker, Bridges, Ayton:
Rubio on court: 121.6 OffRtg, 101.4 DefRtg, +20.2 NetRtg (226 minutes)
Rubio off court: 109.6 OffRtg, 105.1 DefRtg, +4.5 NetRtg (87 minutes)

Even with our terrible backup guards, when Rubio was on the bench but Booker, Bridges, Oubre and Ayton were on the court the Suns still had a positive NetRtg.

The 4 on the court may have had a positive rating in those 87 minutes, but you don't know that they were playing with a backup PG either. They could have had Cam or Dario or someone else out there. But again, your illustration points out that huge difference you originally posted of about 20 in net rating is largely due to Rubio and as we can see, those 4 played a lot more with Rubio on the court than without to give them that boost in rating when they 4 are together.

[bwgood77]

He's not close to a star level player. He is just flash, and his positive attitude his good for the locker room.

He has below league average efficiency (TS% 56%, league avg 56.4%), below avg defender (though decent 1 on 1 on occasion and occasional steals), and doesn't pass. He also drives into multiple defenders far too often.

Compare to Mikal for example, who has a 62.3% TS%, is an elite defender, better passer, more steals and blocks per 36.

Overall, on paper, Oubre is a below average player. With the eye test, he is slightly above average due to his energy, but also you can see the bad iq plays driving or non aware on team D. Now given what we've seen on this team for 10 years, I know our bar is low, but he's far from a star. People were arguing on the General Board the other day that Marion wasn't a star, and Marion was 10x better than Oubre.

Please everyone, stop this constant comparing of Oubre and Bridges. Mikal doesn't bring to the table what Oubre does and vice versa. Most importantly, they fit together on the court very well and the Suns are very successful playing them at the same time.

Oubre is our version of Draymond Green. Not the most talented player on the roster, who has his clear limitations on the court and at times when he isn't paired with players better than him, he looks like a liability, but he enhances the performance of our best players. His confidence, swagger and hustle make Ayton and Booker play much harder. Oh and he's the most clutch player on our roster.

I was just stating his below average efficiency and tendencies when someone claimed he was a star, and compared him with a player the same age and same position (who is not a star) in efficiency and other areas. You are right, as I pointed out, they definitely bring different things to the table.

I don't see a Draymond Green comparison for Oubre though. Draymond Green is an elite playmaker and a phenomenal defender.

But to your point about Booker and Ayton playing better with Oubre. They play better when we have our best players on the floor because we don't have much depth, or at least with our injuries this year we didn't.

I just think we have on star on the team at this time, and that is Booker. I think our standards for what many fans deem a great player now have dropped due to our putrid roster over the years.

A lot of people were convinced Brandon Knight was a star, after we traded for him and was what some had mentioned as an all star snub. I just don't want another contract that hampers what we can do for years.

If we can sign/extend Oubre for a reasonable amount than we should certainly do so, but I wouldn't break the bank for him unless he makes major strides this summer. He's currently on a pretty fair contract for what he provided. I thought it was too much per year when signed (but was fine with it due to length) but he outperformed my expectations so I think it's a fair amount. If he continues to outperform them, it's likely I think he will be worth more.

[bwgood77]

as things get pushed back, causing the next season to be pushed back as well, I wonder if the NBA will keep the same dates going forward (i.e. the season starts in december forever now). Or if the NBA will slowly try to shift things back over the course of couple of seasons.

I think they should keep the Dec start. Less overlap with the NFL/college football. Playoffs would go into the summer with only mls/mlb competing for ratings.

I’d be curious to know how many hardcore NBA fans follow MLB closely.

I’ve always felt NFL/NBA fans are sort of a duo where fans of one league tend to watch the other one closely as well and then MLB fans and NHL fans are focused only into those individual leagues.

That's kind of true. Most people I know who really like MLB, don't care for the NBA at all except maybe the playoffs and are just casual NFL fans. Then I know a lot of just die hard NFL fans. Most NBA fans I come across are either on this forum or twitter and it seems the vast majority are only die hard NBA fans, with a few who also talk football.

[bwgood77]

I think they should keep the Dec start. Less overlap with the NFL/college football. Playoffs would go into the summer with only mls/mlb competing for ratings.

I’d be curious to know how many hardcore NBA fans follow MLB closely.

I’ve always felt NFL/NBA fans are sort of a duo where fans of one league tend to watch the other one closely as well and then MLB fans and NHL fans are focused only into those individual leagues.

I'm sure there is some overlap, especially in places like NY, Boston, and Chicago. MLB is alot less popular for "neutral" fans I feel like. I only watch the some of MLB post season/World Series for example. NBA going into the summer would be great for the league but probably be terrible for MLB.

Yes, those cities with long time traditions and huge populations of people have big fanbases, and of course the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs are 3 of the most popular teams. Of course it also depends on how good the teams are. I feel like in Texas, since the Rangers were really good and then the Astros became really good about 4-5 years ago after being awful for a long time, there are a lot of baseball fans, especially Astros fans now across Texas, and probably Rangers fans in Dallas. In Austin all they ever talk about on sports radio though is UT Football...with a tad of Dallas Cowboy talk unless it's a national show they are picking up.

[Sugarless]

Looks like the league will resume with 22 teams. I'm going to be so pissed if they decide to go with the top-11 in each conference (which would leave the Suns out), instead of the 22 highest winning percentages across the league...

It looks like they might get rid of the conferences for the playoffs and just seed all teams from 1 to 16, so hopefully they do the same with the 22 qualified teams and we get to see the Suns for a few more games at the very least. I wouldn't put my money on it, though.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Looks like the league will resume with 22 teams. I'm going to be so pissed if they decide to go with the top-11 in each conference (which would leave the Suns out), instead of the 22 highest winning percentages across the league...

It looks like they might get rid of the conferences for the playoffs and just seed all teams from 1 to 16, so hopefully they do the same with the 22 qualified teams and we get to see the Suns for a few more games at the very least. I wouldn't put my money on it, though.

If we did the regular playoff format (with conferences), our chances to make the playoffs are still pretty small, 1 in 6. If you organize without conferences and just go 1-to-16, there would be 9 teams vying for 3 playoff spots, 1 in 3. I'd be hyped for that scenario, because we'd have a real shot at the playoffs, and who knows what might happen once we get there?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[LV-Suns]

Look like Fox and Bagley are not getting along in Sacramento. Fox posted a picture of his dad on IG calling him a clown and unfollowed jr. I would trade our pick for Bagley.

[starbosa10]

Look like Fox and Bagley are not getting along in Sacramento. Fox posted a picture of his dad on IG calling him a clown and unfollowed jr. I would trade our pick for Bagley.

I'd trade more than our pick for Fox

[jredsaz]

Seriously but I'm betting if they move on from either its Bagley.

Look like Fox and Bagley are not getting along in Sacramento. Fox posted a picture of his dad on IG calling him a clown and unfollowed jr. I would trade our pick for Bagley.

I'd trade more than our pick for Fox

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[starbosa10]

Seriously but I'm betting if they move on from either its Bagley.

Look like Fox and Bagley are not getting along in Sacramento. Fox posted a picture of his dad on IG calling him a clown and unfollowed jr. I would trade our pick for Bagley.

I'd trade more than our pick for Fox

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Agreed

[King4Day]

Look like Fox and Bagley are not getting along in Sacramento. Fox posted a picture of his dad on IG calling him a clown and unfollowed jr. I would trade our pick for Bagley.

I'd trade more than our pick for Fox

I think Fox is untouchable for them.
Bagley would be tough to get. If we're still able to move up in the lottery, there may be a chance they would do a trade surrounded by say a top 2 or 3 pick.
If not, I don't think the Kings are ready to admit they messed up by not picking Doncic.
They will probably give him one more year to see what they have.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Look like Fox and Bagley are not getting along in Sacramento. Fox posted a picture of his dad on IG calling him a clown and unfollowed jr. I would trade our pick for Bagley.

I'd trade more than our pick for Fox

I think Fox is untouchable for them.
Bagley would be tough to get. If we're still able to move up in the lottery, there may be a chance they would do a trade surrounded by say a top 2 or 3 pick.
If not, I don't think the Kings are ready to admit they messed up by not picking Doncic.
They will probably give him one more year to see what they have.

IF they were to make Fox available, Then I'd offer either:

1.
-Our 2020 pick.
- One of either Oubre or Cam Johnson. **( really nice inclusion honestly).
- Kaminsky *( team option) for their backup center needs, Or to be declined for additional cap space.
- A future top 10 protected first.

2.
- Or A pick swap.
- Bridges. **( really don't want to include him in anything, But you've got to give to get back)!! .
- Diallo/ Jerome.
Otherwise, I'm just looking to take Hayes (** IF there) or Kira Lewis at 10, As he projects (* for his ultimate upside) along the lines of Fox himself. But giving up a draft pick in this draft for Fox, Even if it's a Top 3 somehow, Hell yes! Sign me up! Although I'd really hate missing out on Toppin potentially though. But again, I'd live with it happily for Fox!

[King4Day]

I'd trade more than our pick for Fox

I think Fox is untouchable for them.
Bagley would be tough to get. If we're still able to move up in the lottery, there may be a chance they would do a trade surrounded by say a top 2 or 3 pick.
If not, I don't think the Kings are ready to admit they messed up by not picking Doncic.
They will probably give him one more year to see what they have.

IF they were to make Fox available, Then I'd offer either:

1.
-Our 2020 pick.
- One of either Oubre or Cam Johnson. **( really nice inclusion honestly).
- Kaminsky *( team option) for their backup center needs, Or to be declined for additional cap space.
- A future top 10 protected first.

2.
- Or A pick swap.
- Bridges. **( really don't want to include him in anything, But you've got to give to get back)!! .
- Diallo/ Jerome.
Otherwise, I'm just looking to take Hayes (** IF there) or Kira Lewis at 10, As he projects (* for his ultimate upside) along the lines of Fox himself. But giving up a draft pick in this draft for Fox, Even if it's a Top 3 somehow, Hell yes! Sign me up! Although I'd really hate missing out on Toppin potentially though. But again, I'd live with it happily for Fox!

It'll take a lot to get him. He's under control for a long time. But I agree, I would deal, even this years #1. We can't rely on 'what ifs'. Get what we know works.

That said, with the going rate of high end talent, we'd lose a ton if the Kings were to move Fox interdivision

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Bagley would be tough to get. If we're still able to move up in the lottery, there may be a chance they would do a trade surrounded by say a top 2 or 3 pick.
If not, I don't think the Kings are ready to admit they messed up by not picking Doncic.
They will probably give him one more year to see what they have.

Aren't Marquese and Dragan playing for the minimum next year? What did we receive in exchange for Quese and JJ, again?

I'd trade more than our pick for Fox

I think Fox is untouchable for them.

IF they were to make Fox available, Then I'd offer either:

1.
-Our 2020 pick.
- One of either Oubre or Cam Johnson. **( really nice inclusion honestly).
- Kaminsky *( team option) for their backup center needs, Or to be declined for additional cap space.
- A future top 10 protected first.

2.
- Or A pick swap.
- Bridges. **( really don't want to include him in anything, But you've got to give to get back)!! .
- Diallo/ Jerome.
Otherwise, I'm just looking to take Hayes (** IF there) or Kira Lewis at 10, As he projects (* for his ultimate upside) along the lines of Fox himself. But giving up a draft pick in this draft for Fox, Even if it's a Top 3 somehow, Hell yes! Sign me up! Although I'd really hate missing out on Toppin potentially though. But again, I'd live with it happily for Fox!

I actually think these trades are pretty fair value, not that you'd find a Kings fan who would agree. Kudos. Of course they raise the question, why are we trading for a starting point guard when our best player last season was our starting point guard? Why not just keep it together and keep moving forward?

[darmani]

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[Flying Colors]

I hope the Pistons hire McD, it be interesting to see what type of moves he’d make without having Sarver’s goats **** in his office.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I hope the Pistons hire McD, it be interesting to see what type of moves he’d make without having Sarver’s goats **** in his office.

Bad ones I'd expect. Like what aspect of the GM job was he good at? Drafting? Hiring coaches? Signing FAs? Player relationships?

I doubt he's actually a serious candidate. He has a ton of media ties and I'm sure getting mentioned as a candidate is part of the return for giving inside info to his sources. Very common occurrence in all sports.
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[Saberestar]

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[Revived]

I hope the Pistons hire McD, it be interesting to see what type of moves he’d make without having Sarver’s goats **** in his office.

I hope it happens for comedic purposes.

The only thing that Ryan McDonough was ever good at was pissing players off. Not sure there has ever been an NBA team which had as many disgruntled players demanding trades as the Suns did under McDonough.

I assume his first target will be Blake Griffin.