Has Tim Duncan become somewhat overrated?

[Odinn]

Garnett (Neither had much impact of the other defensively, Garnett's efficiency rose a bit and Duncan's declined

LOL@this part espeacially. #1

1999 1st round series; (you tried to save the KG hype but in this series, they defended each other.)
Duncan 18.8 ppg on .460 fg
Garnett 21.8 ppg on .443 fg

2001 1st round series;
Duncan 22.5 ppg on .466 fg
Garnett 21.0 ppg on .466 fg

Dirk goes out and they had no bigs, literally

LOL@this part espeacially. #2

Before Dirk going down Duncan was already 35.3 / 18.0 / 6.0 on .617 fg in that series.


Pathetic attempt to rewrite the history.

---

I wrote down this a while ago;

The perception is like Duncan played against D-League caliber bigs.

If we say Duncan's prime was 99-08;

Duncan had no first-round exit - at least 2nd round (also 58W per season), never missed the playoffs.
Notable bigs which Duncan played against;
S. O'Neal 6 times
A. Stoudemire 4 times
D. Nowitzki 3 times
S. Marion 3 times
K. Martin 2 times
K. Garnett 2 times
P. Gasol 2 times
R. Wallace 2 times
B. Wallace 1 time
M. Camby 1 time
T. Chandler 1 time
D. West 1 time

---

Sure Duncan wasn't always matched-up with these names all the time, but Duncan faced enough (and more than enough, actually) defensive pressure. He was scoring 30+ while he was being doubled or tripled by Dampier, Dirk and Howard in 2006. He scored 41 while being tripled almost entire game.

---

Looking back again and you were the one tried to discredit Duncan once again (and failed once again) in Hakeem vs. Duncan: offense only thread.

[thizznation]

Welcome to Realgm



Playing with multiple HOFs and a GOAT Popovich as the coach, but in here, Tim Duncan did it all by himself.

Do you realize Tim Duncan was the catalyst for the coaching / team success for San Antonio?

[thizznation]

Tim Duncan is rated fine here. His resume is unreal. His two-way impact is off the charts. Longevity is incredible. Great playoff and championship performances.


The "recent bias" or whatever these guys are spewing is such nonsense. Like someone said earlier the difference between these TOP players gets very small, so when a player tacks on 2 seasons going to the finals and winning one of them with great play, that is going to enhance them.

When Dirk had the amazing 2011 playoff run it advanced his career greatness a lot, this isn't recent bias it's just fairly adding an amazing season to an already amazing resume, in result makes him pass a lot of players that were previously ahead of him.

What do you think would happen with LeBron GOAT's rating if he made the finals this year and then won the finals next year? It would go way up.

[Shot Clock]

Garnett (Neither had much impact of the other defensively, Garnett's efficiency rose a bit and Duncan's declined

LOL@this part espeacially. #1

1999 1st round series; (you tried to save the KG hype but in this series, they defended each other.)Only rarely, Garnett was a skinny SF at the time
Duncan 18.8 ppg on .460 fg
Garnett 21.8 ppg on .443 fg

2001 1st round series;
Duncan 22.5 ppg on .466 fg
Garnett 21.0 ppg on .466 fg

It's quite pathetic when someone "LOL"'s at something and then comes back with such a weak rebuttal. Mind you the use of "LOL"
kind of sets the expectation level.

2001 Garnett
RS - 22ppg on .539 TS%
vs Spurs - 21ppg oon .569 TS%

Duncan
RS- 22.2 PPG on .499 TS%
Vs wolves 22.5 PPG on .466 TS%

So like I said, not a big impact.

Dirk goes out and they had no bigs, literally

LOL@this part espeacially. #2

Before Dirk going down Duncan was already 35.3 / 18.0 / 6.0 on .617 fg in that series.


Pathetic attempt to rewrite the history.

The point is Duncan has never really had to face many decent bigs that could slow him down. Dirk wasn't one and they had literally no other bigs. Walt Williams was their next "big". So your response comes across as typical kneejerk defense for something I wasn't even debating.

The perception is like Duncan played against D-League caliber bigs.

If we say Duncan's prime was 99-08;

Duncan had no first-round exit - at least 2nd round (also 58W per season), never missed the playoffs.
Notable bigs which Duncan played against;
S. O'Neal 6 times
A. Stoudemire 4 times
D. Nowitzki 3 times
S. Marion 3 times
K. Martin 2 times
K. Garnett 2 times
P. Gasol 2 times
R. Wallace 2 times
B. Wallace 1 time
M. Camby 1 time
T. Chandler 1 time
D. West 1 time

Pointless. I already listed year by year who he faced. Let's discuss the guys he did face. Tossing names like Shaq in there while Robinson usually took him is just falsely representing the situation. You cherry pick to 2008 to avoid 2009 so you can still make a claim about no first round exits.

Looking back again and you were the one tried to discredit Duncan once again (and failed once again) in Hakeem vs. Duncan: offense only thread.

I you think that disagreeing with the consensus around here is "discrediting" I disagree. He's still a top player of all time I just don't agree with the status he's given around here. Your response is typical of the circle the wagons approach that many take if anyone dares question him in the same way we question other greats.

[Texas Chuck]

Dallas had Rafe and Najera who along with Dirk(prior to injury) guarded Duncan. Im sure the Wizard was matched up against him on occasion, but no reason to exaggerate to make your point. Duncan was brilliant that series and doesn't need any additional propping up of a false narrative. Guy dominated Dallas. Period.

[fortinbras]

In my opinion, higher offensive ratings across the league, faster pace, and flashy moves create the illusion, through inflated box scores and eye test, that certain players were better than Duncan.

For example, Hakeem is a flashier, less effective and less successful version of Duncan.

relative to his contemporaries, Duncan was a ruthless, efficient machine, particularly in the playoffs.

[LeBird]

Yes, Duncan has become overrated. While still a very good player in the latter stages of his career; he should not have gotten the kind of bump (on this site especially) people have given him. Comparing him to the likes of Magic or Bird is really silly. Duncan has never, ever, gotten GOAT recognition. He was rarely that kind of character or dominant enough for that kind of talk to arise.

Duncan's legacy is owed in large part to Popovic building a great side around him, a team that really plays as a team and is deep as hell. Pop doesn't/didn't need to overplay Duncan either which keeps him effective for when he does. What's also overlooked is that in the latter half of his career the league's best players have been wing players and his match-ups have made him look more important due to a dearth of great bigs. It's not because he is keeping up some magical level of performance. In any other team, you simply wouldn't have noticed him.

As I brought up in another thread a while ago; since 09-10 Duncan has only made an All-NBA team once (that's counting All-NBA 3rd team) - and a lot of that had to do with the media giving a testimonial kind of praise as people thought Duncan was packing it in. Since 06-07 he hasn't been considered a top 5 player in the league - that's almost half his career.

None of the GOAT candidates really had that kind of...lack of relevance for that kind of length. Even when Bird had a broken back he was an MVP caliber player, and when it got really bad he still made an All-NBA 2nd team in 1990. Magic apart from the beginning was a perennial top 5 player until he got HIV.

[LeBird]

What difference does that make?

When you say things like "1300 games of Duncan or 900 of Magic", it kinda frames the argument in a way where it can be taken as one monolithic player, ya know? But the last 50 games of each weren't the same as the first 50 from them, nor were they their best 50, right? So all those games aren't equal.

So I'm curious when it was 900 of Magic versus 1000 of Duncan where you had them...And then interested in how these last post prime 300 have catapulted him. The long and short of it is the last few years, Duncan has been basically a normal All Star level player, at best. So where people had him before these last few years is of a lot of interest. If you had him at 8 then and you have him at 5 now....that's odd, that's all.

It's an irrelevant line of arguing. We aren't talking about having just one tire for our car and having to live with that, in that we'd want the most durable tire, all other things mostly equal. We can go out and get spares.

I'd rather have 900 of Magic and 400 of Zach Randoplh than 1300 of Duncan. Once Magic goes, that's not the end of the equation; the franchise has the funds and space to provide another player. Duncan for the games he plays more than Magic isn't the kind of player that I'm afraid of missing out on. Yet the 900 that Magic play is largely GOAT level play, and Duncan's clearly a level below that.

People harp about his impact for the Spurs in the last season - about how he was their best player. That'd be quite an argument for any other team, but not the Spurs. Most franchises have 2-3 clear standout star players and a bunch of role players. In simple terms, they'll have two 9/10 players, a 7/10 player or like three 8/10 players and the remaining guys at 5s, 6s and 7s. The Spurs are a team that are DEEP and do not have a clear standout player. While they don't have 8s or 9s, they really don't have 5s either. The systemic way Pop plays makes this all work. So if Duncan is their stand-out player, it isn't really that far ahead of guys like Kawhi or Parker - and they themselves aren't bankable All-NBA talent (even 3rd team), let alone MVP caliber type.

[Odinn]

Garnett (Neither had much impact of the other defensively, Garnett's efficiency rose a bit and Duncan's declined

LOL@this part espeacially. #1

1999 1st round series; (you tried to save the KG hype but in this series, they defended each other.)Only rarely, Garnett was a skinny SF at the time
Duncan 18.8 ppg on .460 fg
Garnett 21.8 ppg on .443 fg

2001 1st round series;
Duncan 22.5 ppg on .466 fg
Garnett 21.0 ppg on .466 fg

It's quite pathetic when someone "LOL"'s at something and then comes back with such a weak rebuttal. Mind you the use of "LOL"
kind of sets the expectation level.

2001 Garnett
RS - 22ppg on .539 TS%
vs Spurs - 21ppg oon .569 TS%

Duncan
RS- 22.2 PPG on .499 TS%
Vs wolves 22.5 PPG on .466 TS%

So like I said, not a big impact.

Dirk goes out and they had no bigs, literally

LOL@this part espeacially. #2

Before Dirk going down Duncan was already 35.3 / 18.0 / 6.0 on .617 fg in that series.


Pathetic attempt to rewrite the history.

The point is Duncan has never really had to face many decent bigs that could slow him down. Dirk wasn't one and they had literally no other bigs. Walt Williams was their next "big". So your response comes across as typical kneejerk defense for something I wasn't even debating.

The perception is like Duncan played against D-League caliber bigs.

If we say Duncan's prime was 99-08;

Duncan had no first-round exit - at least 2nd round (also 58W per season), never missed the playoffs.
Notable bigs which Duncan played against;
S. O'Neal 6 times
A. Stoudemire 4 times
D. Nowitzki 3 times
S. Marion 3 times
K. Martin 2 times
K. Garnett 2 times
P. Gasol 2 times
R. Wallace 2 times
B. Wallace 1 time
M. Camby 1 time
T. Chandler 1 time
D. West 1 time

Pointless. I already listed year by year who he faced. Let's discuss the guys he did face. Tossing names like Shaq in there while Robinson usually took him is just falsely representing the situation. You cherry pick to 2008 to avoid 2009 so you can still make a claim about no first round exits.

Looking back again and you were the one tried to discredit Duncan once again (and failed once again) in Hakeem vs. Duncan: offense only thread.

I you think that disagreeing with the consensus around here is "discrediting" I disagree. He's still a top player of all time I just don't agree with the status he's given around here. Your response is typical of the circle the wagons approach that many take if anyone dares question him in the same way we question other greats.

- What's the point of posting TS% numbers? We all already know KG is the better ft shooter and you can not be defended while shooting a ft.
- The thing about SAS-DAL series in 2003, you cherry picked and I cherry picked to counter it. You can't have it both ways.
- You keep talking like Duncan and Shaq weren't matched-up enough but go watch back 2002, 2003 and 2004 series. Anyone who saw the series knows that. You are just trying to discredit Duncan even you deny it.
- It's good to see you haven't got an answer for how Duncan scored 30+ ppg against double/triple teams of a good defensive side.
- Go ahead and start a thread about Duncan's prime seasons which I stated right through. Even 2007-08 season is controversial on this particular matter but yeah, keep swinging 2009 so you can say I cherry pick and you do not.

Anyhow, have a good time on the board mate. I won't be discussing Duncan with you ever again because you think you stay on the objective side while you certainly don't.