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Is Hornacek the problem?

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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#221 » by In Len We Trust » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:13 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Majority of 2nd year coaches aren't championship ready. What a silly question to pose



I can almost guarantee you that Steve Kerr (1st year) or Budenholzer (2nd year) win a championship this year.

We'll see how they go when the pressure is on and the game becomes more about the coaching adjustment and discipline. The last coach to win a title with less than 5 years experience is Coach Spo and he also had the best player on the planet as well as Wade and Bosh.



You have to keep in mind that first time head coaches are usually hired to <.500 teams. Obviously it isn't going to be common for 1st or 2nd year coaches to win championships but if they are really good, which Bud and Kerr are, there's no reason why they can't win.

Kerr and Bud's offense and defense are beautiful to watch. They are also both great at making adjustments and utilizing weaknesses in other teams. I see no reason to believe that they can't be successful in the playoffs. We'll see in June. Should be interesting. My money is on the Hawks or Warriors winning it all though.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#222 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:36 am

In Len We Trust wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:

I can almost guarantee you that Steve Kerr (1st year) or Budenholzer (2nd year) win a championship this year.

We'll see how they go when the pressure is on and the game becomes more about the coaching adjustment and discipline. The last coach to win a title with less than 5 years experience is Coach Spo and he also had the best player on the planet as well as Wade and Bosh.



You have to keep in mind that first time head coaches are usually hired to <.500 teams. Obviously it isn't going to be common for 1st or 2nd year coaches to win championships but if they are really good, which Bud and Kerr are, there's no reason why they can't win.

Kerr and Bud's offense and defense are beautiful to watch. They are also both great at making adjustments and utilizing weaknesses in other teams. I see no reason to believe that they can't be successful in the playoffs. We'll see in June. Should be interesting. My money is on the Hawks or Warriors winning it all though.

They are rightfully the favourites but they are still untested. The playoffs, as you know, is a whole different beast and that's when coaches like Carlise, Pops and Thibs really shine.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#223 » by Revived » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:06 am

Hornacek has new reason with signing Seth Curry to hardly play Goodwin any minutes.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#224 » by In Len We Trust » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:08 am

If Hornacek starts Green I'm going to be PISSED!
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#225 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:15 am

SF88 wrote:Hornacek has new reason with signing Seth Curry to hardly play Goodwin any minutes.

I would be extremely disappointed if this was the case. If Archie isn't playing because he isn't ready, then neither should Curry.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#226 » by kennydorglas » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:23 am

Let's hope Thibs leaves Chicago.
Would be a dream for us.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#227 » by Puff » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:24 am

The loss tonight will be blamed on Bledsoe and his teammates. They will be blamed for the turnovers and missed shots.

I think the bigger issue is our style of play. That is on Hornacek. I think he is expecting Bledsoe to be Nash and create shots for everyone. It ain't happening now or in the future. We have to be the worst passing team in the league. This ISO crap is and has been old. I cannot stand to watch this team much longer.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#228 » by Puff » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:24 am

The loss tonight will be blamed on Bledsoe and his teammates. They will be blamed for the turnovers and missed shots.

I think the bigger issue is our style of play. That is on Hornacek. I think he is expecting Bledsoe to be Nash and create shots for everyone. It ain't happening now or in the future. We have to be the worst passing team in the league. This ISO crap is and has been old. I cannot stand to watch this team much longer.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#229 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:45 pm

Puff wrote:The loss tonight will be blamed on Bledsoe and his teammates. They will be blamed for the turnovers and missed shots.

I think the bigger issue is our style of play. That is on Hornacek. I think he is expecting Bledsoe to be Nash and create shots for everyone. It ain't happening now or in the future. We have to be the worst passing team in the league. This ISO crap is and has been old. I cannot stand to watch this team much longer.


Yes, the iso stuff is definitely on the players. He's not coaching people to run iso. When you have a Kobe or a Melo, it's gonna happen. I don't like those guy's style of play. Unfortunately, when you have guys who THINK they are Kobe or Melo, it's also gonna happen, which is even worse.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#230 » by JMac1 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:37 pm

We are such an ugly team. Bledsoe can't even run a pick and roll without running into Len or Wright. They have no idea what they are doing, but the keep getting opportunities to do it. Jeff needs to go and some players need to go.

Keep Knight, Warren, and Len. I like Archie but eh....he is missing something. Bledsoe is hot garbage. The Mo twins are supreme ballhogs.

Run the pick and roll with Len and Knight, keep Warren on the move/cutting, bring in a stretch four and 3D Sg and let the chips fall.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#231 » by Damkac » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:37 pm

So last year Hornacek was 2nd in COTY voting losing only to a living legend Popovich and everybody here thought he is a genious.
Suddenly he is now an idiot with no clue of running a team.

I don't get it. What happened?

This turn concerns whole team. Last year lots of people liked Suns, there was tons of positive articles about them. Underdog that suprised everyone, all players played above exceptations, Chemistry was great etc.
Now nobody likes this year team, even Suns fans. Nobody write anything positive about them. And last year roster was almost the same that this years was before trade deadline. So what happened?

Last season it seemed like Dragic is willing to spend rest of his career in Phoenix. It ended with him demanding the trade and badmouth the team.

I don't remember any offcourt problems with Suns players last season. Now we have Tucker's DUI, missing team bus, affair with Morris bros etc.

Somehow everything that can f***d up indeed f***d up this season.

McD though not getting as much hate as Hornacek is also criticized more and more.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#232 » by RunDogGun » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:50 pm

Damkac wrote:So last year Hornacek was 2nd in COTY voting losing only to a living legend Popovich and everybody here thought he is a genious.
Suddenly he is now an idiot with no clue of running a team.

I don't get it. What happened?

This turn concerns whole team. Last year lots of people liked Suns, there was tons of positive articles about them. Underdog that suprised everyone, all players played above exceptations, Chemistry was great etc.
Now nobody likes this year team, even Suns fans. Nobody write anything positive about them. And last year roster was almost the same that this years was before trade deadline. So what happened?

Last season it seemed like Dragic is willing to spend rest of his career in Phoenix. It ended with him demanding the trade and badmouth the team.

I don't remember any offcourt problems with Suns players last season. Now we have Tucker's DUI, missing team bus, affair with Morris bros etc.

Somehow everything that can f***d up indeed f***d up this season.

McD though not getting as much hate as Hornacek is also criticized more and more.

Tucker had an affair with the Morris brothers? :o That is f*cked up, but that explains the drinking, sleeping late, and avoiding the team bus. :lol:
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#233 » by Damkac » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:34 pm

That is not exacly what I was trying to say :-? But if you think it explains all the staff then mayby it's the cause :eek1:
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#234 » by RunDogGun » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:50 pm

Damkac wrote:That is not exacly what I was trying to say :-? But if you think it explains all the staff then mayby it's the cause :eek1:

I know what you were trying to say, I just took advantage of a list of events that followed Tucker's name. You did forget Goodwin's arrest. :wink: And a long drawn out signing of Bledsoe, while not illegal or anything, it did seem to create some drama, tension, and a little panic signing.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#235 » by Damkac » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:04 pm

You took advantage of my bad english :P
I remember about Goodwin just thought it was pretty innocent comparing to Tucker and Morri issues. But it was sort of an omen of future problems :( There was lots of other drama like players complaining for role and minutes and showing disrespect for team (for example Frye giving 3 minutes to match his contract)

Most puzzling is that players that seemed to love this team last season sudenly started to hate it :(
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#236 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:33 pm

Damkac wrote:So last year Hornacek was 2nd in COTY voting losing only to a living legend Popovich and everybody here thought he is a genious.
Suddenly he is now an idiot with no clue of running a team.

I don't get it. What happened?

This turn concerns whole team. Last year lots of people liked Suns, there was tons of positive articles about them. Underdog that suprised everyone, all players played above exceptations, Chemistry was great etc.
Now nobody likes this year team, even Suns fans. Nobody write anything positive about them. And last year roster was almost the same that this years was before trade deadline. So what happened?

Last season it seemed like Dragic is willing to spend rest of his career in Phoenix. It ended with him demanding the trade and badmouth the team.

I don't remember any offcourt problems with Suns players last season. Now we have Tucker's DUI, missing team bus, affair with Morris bros etc.

Somehow everything that can f***d up indeed f***d up this season.

McD though not getting as much hate as Hornacek is also criticized more and more.

Totally agree with you

I don't think anyone can take more blame than McD. The players we have are doing their job and playing the way that made them successful. The issue is that this group of players just aren't that good together because they are all iso oriented players with low basketball IQ. It worked last year because we had Frye who was a great veteran presence and was one half of the duo which caused havoc against most teams. We also had Goran who worked well with Bledsoe since he's a smart guy who knew when to defer to Bledsoe and when to take the ball himself but that all went down the drain when IT was brought on board and our whole offensive scheme became just players trying to get theirs. Hornacek works well with high BB IQ guys because he's players coach with a laid back style who is happy to let his team play. This season with all the iso guys playing heavy minutes, it's particularly ugly when they all just try to get theirs.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#237 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:40 am

Too good too soon, that was the main problem.

Nobody complains about winning close to 50 games at the time, only in hindsight.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#238 » by bwgood77 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:33 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Totally agree with you

I don't think anyone can take more blame than McD. The players we have are doing their job and playing the way that made them successful. The issue is that this group of players just aren't that good together because they are all iso oriented players with low basketball IQ. It worked last year because we had Frye who was a great veteran presence and was one half of the duo which caused havoc against most teams. We also had Goran who worked well with Bledsoe since he's a smart guy who knew when to defer to Bledsoe and when to take the ball himself but that all went down the drain when IT was brought on board and our whole offensive scheme became just players trying to get theirs. Hornacek works well with high BB IQ guys because he's players coach with a laid back style who is happy to let his team play. This season with all the iso guys playing heavy minutes, it's particularly ugly when they all just try to get theirs.


Yes. Hornacek is not going to be able to turn chicken **** into chicken salad no matter how many people demand it. He did a masterful job last year. I think it is more likely he quits than gets canned and he would probably be a prime candidate for a new hc job immediately.

We have some idiot posters who don't see this. We have shuffled our team too much since last year and at mid season to expect a cohesive unit whatsoever. Half our team is new and people expect us to be beating premier teams? It's not like we have a superstar like OKC to carry us. Our two best players are first or second year starters and the second year starter only played half a season his first year and has changing teammates for the entire season.

It is amazing McD gets a pass so often when he has put this stuff on the floor. The thing is, though, many thought we were a tanking team last year, and it looked like it, and that we were going to go young and get those high picks and develop young guys.

The problem, if this is what the plan was, was that we overachieved too fast, and although McD probably wanted to move on from Frye and Dragic and go young, Sarver wants to win no matter what. I don't really blame either in their perspectives, but it was a clash, and it may have hurt us a bit in the long run. We did end up getting decent assets back for Dragic though and now our young guys are playing. If Warren ends up being what I think he can be, we may not have been all that better off getting a higher draft pick last year.

The biggest question is giving up Ennis and that pick for Knight. I like Knight, so I will try to reserve judgement on that, although it is tough, because it seems counterintuitive to what I thought McD was trying to do, but I want to believe in the team and be an optimist, so I will just continue to hope Knight was worth it. By all accounts he is a hard worker, has improved every year in the league, was a near all star, and is a good shooter and a pretty good ball handler. If you have an overall 8th pick in a draft that had improved every year and was nearly an all star, is giving up unknown assets bad? In most cases no.

But back to the main point, Hornacek is not the problem by any means...he has been give a mishmash of guys (some who were likely promised time and had to play by ultimatum) all year who in no way are ready to run a cohesive offense.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#239 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:17 am

Just about every player last season had career high TS%, due to Hornacek's offensive system.

Those better equiped to judge, will know whether that quality of play is able to be regained.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#240 » by RunDogGun » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:10 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Just about every player last season had career high TS%, due to Hornacek's offensive system.

Those better equiped to judge, will know whether that quality of play is able to be regained.

The system changed once the spacing did. Also players either became disinterested in their roles, did not want their roles, or were not ready to handle those roles. Catching and shooting in rhythm turned into guys trying to create for themselves, and often forcing bad shots.

I also think guys expected a little more respect for drawing contact and being rewarded for those efforts. Drawing contact and not getting to the line seemed to deflate effort to drive, and took the easier, less effiecent deep twos or threes.

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