The Zach Lavine Problem

[Susan]

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He can do that, AND shoot a higher percentage from three point land than Kevin Durant? Sign me up for that max contract.

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He tore his ACL. This is like looking at a girl who you know gained 30 lbs and creeping on her old facebook pictures thinking that's what you're dating.

[Jcool0]

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He can do that, AND shoot a higher percentage from three point land than Kevin Durant? Sign me up for that max contract.

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He tore his ACL. This is like looking at a girl who you know gained 30 lbs and creeping on her old facebook pictures thinking that's what you're dating.

He tore his ACL???? I did not know that.... Well that changes everything!

[tedwilliams1999]

He tore his ACL. This is like looking at a girl who you know gained 30 lbs and creeping on her old facebook pictures thinking that's what you're dating.

It's faster to rehab an ACL than it is to lose 30 pounds.

[FecesOfDeath]

Jimmy's 76 games has been the most he's played since his sophomore season, he's very injury prone, and he's proven to be mediocre if he's hobbled in any way, physically or mentally.

I'd say that Thibs is going to have a Jimmy Butler problem if he goes back to playing him 40+ minutes a game and misses his usual 16 games a season again.

[patagonia]

Let's not forget that Zach was playing 37 mins a game just after coming back from a hip injury. Thibs strikes again!

[WindyCityBorn]

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He can do that, AND shoot a higher percentage from three point land than Kevin Durant? Sign me up for that max contract.

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He tore his ACL. This is like looking at a girl who you know gained 30 lbs and creeping on her old facebook pictures thinking that's what you're dating.

He tore his ACL???? I did not know that.... Well that changes everything!

Derrick Rose has really warped some Bulls fan's mind about ACL injuries.

I didn't want go here, but I am for one time only. Rose was a sheltered mental midget that crumbled at the first sign of adversity. His refusal to come back and play when he was medically cleared and we were in the playoffs said a lot about him as competitor.

[Dominator83]

LaVine's teammates sucking next season shouldn't prevent us from finding out whether the sucky team plays better with or without him.

And under the logic you stated that the money we spend the next 4 years doesn't matter, then we should be exclusively using our cap space for team to bury bad contracts at the cost of a draft pick. There is an opportunity cost to paying LaVine a mega contract more than he is worth.

I'd appreciate the vision if they planned to turn that cap space into draft picks (or valued a first round pick more than LaVine).

Not sure why you are in such a rush to get rid of a 21 year old SG with great offensive skills. He is young enough to fit in with the rebuild. Trying to flip him for a draft pick makes no sense a this point. Seems like you are trying to apply the same logic to Lavine as what used with Butler. If Butler was 21 he would still be here.

The Zach Levine made up problem.

He's just butthurt the team lost Butler.
It would be incredibly stupid to let go of Lavine who has already better offensive skills than Butler. 10x Way more stupid than giving up the 16th pick and the 38th pick or the 2nd round pick for Payne.
Every team needs to spend at least 90% of the entire cap space and would be penalized if they didnt. Even if Lavine doesnt pan out which I highly doubt, we can always trade him for a 1st round pick. 20 mil for a number 2 option is incredibly cheap for future seasons compared to Butler's 50 million and I doubt Butler is 2x better than Lavine.

I dont understand where this comes from. There is no penalty. they would just have to give their current roster a bonus. Just a simple spitball. if we have 12 players, and were $6 mill under the required minimum, then every player on our team would get a half million bonus check. Correct me if im wrong

[RememberLu]

Watch on YouTube

He tore his ACL. This is like looking at a girl who you know gained 30 lbs and creeping on her old facebook pictures thinking that's what you're dating.

He tore his ACL???? I did not know that.... Well that changes everything!

Derrick Rose has really warped some Bulls fan's mind about ACL injuries.

I didn't want go here, but I am for one time only. Rose was a sheltered mental midget that crumbled at the first sign of adversity. His refusal to come back and play when he was medically cleared and we were in the playoffs said a lot about him as competitor.

Maybe but I don't think his 4 knee injuries have much to do with his mentality. That's a physical problem.

Zach LaVine may be injury prone just like Derrick, we don't know. A lot of people feel like the Bulls jersey is cursed so it wouldn't surprise me. First year Rondo & Wade get here Rondo breaks his thumb and Wade hurts his shoulder. Its easy to start believing in curses when you have so much bad luck as a franchise

[Dominator83]

Watch on YouTube

He tore his ACL. This is like looking at a girl who you know gained 30 lbs and creeping on her old facebook pictures thinking that's what you're dating.

He tore his ACL???? I did not know that.... Well that changes everything!

Derrick Rose has really warped some Bulls fan's mind about ACL injuries.

I didn't want go here, but I am for one time only. Rose was a sheltered mental midget that crumbled at the first sign of adversity. His refusal to come back and play when he was medically cleared and we were in the playoffs said a lot about him as competitor.

That could be where some of butler's animosity tords Rose came from. He was on that team guarding lebron for 40 minutes a game, watching Noah hobble around in obvious pain/discomfort, and watching nate puke in a garbage can during timeouts.

All while Rose, who was the healthiest and freshest guy on the team, sat there in a suit because he didn't feel like they were good enough

[Dominator83]

He tore his ACL???? I did not know that.... Well that changes everything!

Derrick Rose has really warped some Bulls fan's mind about ACL injuries.

I didn't want go here, but I am for one time only. Rose was a sheltered mental midget that crumbled at the first sign of adversity. His refusal to come back and play when he was medically cleared and we were in the playoffs said a lot about him as competitor.

Maybe but I don't think his 4 knee injuries have much to do with his mentality. That's a physical problem.

Zach LaVine may be injury prone just like Derrick, we don't know. A lot of people feel like the Bulls jersey is cursed so it wouldn't surprise me. First year Rondo & Wade get here Rondo breaks his thumb and Wade hurts his shoulder. Its easy to start believing in curses when you have so much bad luck as a franchise

Dont forget Jay Williams crashing his bike ending his career after 1 season. Not to mention at the time there were serious talks about trading him with #7 to denver for the #3 pick (probably would've been wade over Melo too )

[MC3]

he is home boys

[WindyCityBorn]

He tore his ACL???? I did not know that.... Well that changes everything!

Derrick Rose has really warped some Bulls fan's mind about ACL injuries.

I didn't want go here, but I am for one time only. Rose was a sheltered mental midget that crumbled at the first sign of adversity. His refusal to come back and play when he was medically cleared and we were in the playoffs said a lot about him as competitor.

Maybe but I don't think his 4 knee injuries have much to do with his mentality. That's a physical problem.

Zach LaVine may be injury prone just like Derrick, we don't know. A lot of people feel like the Bulls jersey is cursed so it wouldn't surprise me. First year Rondo & Wade get here Rondo breaks his thumb and Wade hurts his shoulder. Its easy to start believing in curses when you have so much bad luck as a franchise

Oh I know Rose's problems were mostly outside of his control and Lavine could end up injury prone. But I guarantee you he will come out swinging when he is cleared to play. He still has a lot to prove. Rose just made the entire situation worse than than it already was with his behavior post injury.

[step]

Yeah. That's what you missed.

Oh please do tell what evidence you have to support such a claim.

If you can't tell Derrick is built heavier than Zach Lavine, I don't know what to tell you, buddy.

Visually having more muscle mass doesn't correlate to having lighter bone and muscle structure though. The medical profession requires scanners & x-rays to measure the bone and muscle structure, you should market your visual acuity if you can detail this on any given person. You'd make a killing in the sporting & fitness fields.

[chrispatrick]

LaVine's teammates sucking next season shouldn't prevent us from finding out whether the sucky team plays better with or without him.

And under the logic you stated that the money we spend the next 4 years doesn't matter, then we should be exclusively using our cap space for team to bury bad contracts at the cost of a draft pick. There is an opportunity cost to paying LaVine a mega contract more than he is worth.

I'd appreciate the vision if they planned to turn that cap space into draft picks (or valued a first round pick more than LaVine).

Not sure why you are in such a rush to get rid of a 21 year old SG with great offensive skills. He is young enough to fit in with the rebuild. Trying to flip him for a draft pick makes no sense a this point. Seems like you are trying to apply the same logic to Lavine as what used with Butler. If Butler was 21 he would still be here.

The Zach Levine made up problem.

He's just butthurt the team lost Butler.
It would be incredibly stupid to let go of Lavine who has already better offensive skills than Butler. 10x Way more stupid than giving up the 16th pick and the 38th pick or the 2nd round pick for Payne.
Every team needs to spend at least 90% of the entire cap space and would be penalized if they didnt. Even if Lavine doesnt pan out which I highly doubt, we can always trade him for a 1st round pick. 20 mil for a number 2 option is incredibly cheap for future seasons compared to Butler's 50 million and I doubt Butler is 2x better than Lavine.

You can call it butthurt, it's a logical argument that you don't like.

1.) You can say LaVine has better offensive skills than Butler, but that sure doesn't show up in on court team impact and sure doesn't show up in a efficiency advantage. LaVine is a much better shooter and more athletic than Butler, but he has far less in the way of skills.
2.) Your argument says "20 mil for a number 2 option". LaVine is too young to say he'll never be that, but #2 option on a good team is not at all his most likely path.
3.) If Butler got paid $50 million, it would only be because he kept improving up until his next contract. In fact, Butler's next contract will be less than $50 million, and if LaVine shows that he's healthy, his will likely be more than $20 million, so your numbers aren't really fair.
4.) Whether Butler is 2X better than LaVine years down the road is anyone's guess. Right now, he's infinitely better as you're comparing a guy with a +10.6 on/off impact to a guy sporting a -3.8 on/off impact. We obviously didn't make this trade for right now, but you clearly have more confidence than I do that LaVine will become a positive player and that Butler will drop to a non-impact player like he is now.

I guess if we can agree on one thing, it's hating Cameron Payne.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Oh please do tell what evidence you have to support such a claim.

If you can't tell Derrick is built heavier than Zach Lavine, I don't know what to tell you, buddy.

Visually having more muscle mass doesn't correlate to having lighter bone and muscle structure though. The medical profession requires scanners & x-rays to measure the bone and muscle structure, you should market your visual acuity if you can detail this on any given person. You'd make a killing in the sporting & fitness fields.

I've already made billions in those fields. Thinking about dominating psychology next. Just thought of a research question: "Does being overly-literal make you boring -- or vice versa?"

[GimmeDat]

I gotta say, it's really encouraging just how much Wolves fans have been talking him up post-trade.

Obviously he's a guy I've loved for a long time, he was the #1 guy I wanted over Doug in 2014, but the question is, can he go from an efficient, high flying Jamal Crawford, to an actual star? From the sounds of it, a lot of Wolves fans are confident that he could.

I do also think he'll bounce back from this injury strongly.

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[Chi town]

I gotta say, it's really encouraging just how much Wolves fans have been talking him up post-trade.

Obviously he's a guy I've loved for a long time, he was the #1 guy I wanted over Doug in 2014, but the question is, can he go from an efficient, high flying Jamal Crawford, to an actual star? From the sounds of it, a lot of Wolves fans are confident that he could.

I do also think he'll bounce back from this injury strongly.

I wanted him over Dougie too. Watched most of his UCLA games.

Even if he's JC he will be so much better due to his better 3 ball and high volume. If he can learn defense he's an all star. His athleticism gives him a really high ceiling.

[Chi town]

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JC... you own twitter. Thanks for always posting these links to news and articles. You make this forum better. Much appreciated.

As for the read... the more I learn about this kid the more I think he will be a star.

[bennjuiced34]

I gotta say, it's really encouraging just how much Wolves fans have been talking him up post-trade.

Obviously he's a guy I've loved for a long time, he was the #1 guy I wanted over Doug in 2014, but the question is, can he go from an efficient, high flying Jamal Crawford, to an actual star? From the sounds of it, a lot of Wolves fans are confident that he could.

I do also think he'll bounce back from this injury strongly.

Man, I'd be stoked for a high flying Jamal Crawford. But that's me.

Biggest question I have...offensive numbers look good. So why was his team better when he was off the court?

Why was he not impacting the game in other areas? Youth? Inexperience? 1-dimensional focus?

Because he's not lazy. But for a kid with his physical tools, he should do more than just score, right? Unless that part of his game is still developing.

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