2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]

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OhayoKD
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#221 » by OhayoKD » Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:42 am

Yeah, I think Aenigma's project-runs-over-replacement has been pretty high these 7 months. The level of argumentation, information, and framing of said innovation lapped fields around the 2010 iteration in no-small part thanks to the inclusion of posters like these:
Lebronnygoat wrote:I appreciate and applaud Enigma’s ability run the recent project. I thank him for making me involved as I didn’t submit an application to be in at the start, though it took time for him to consider it and track my involvement prior, he let me in. Thanks.

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:Yeah, good job running this, and I appreciate being let in at a late date.

The same people protesting these sorts of inclusions are also the ones who broadcast that they've watched players without actually showing they have, failing to leverage that "experience" into something useful. Lebronny leveraged it into the most extensive tracking we've seen in project history.

Instead of covering 5 players a thread, OSNB covered 10 during a point in the project where about half the voters had checked out, and those that remained were mostly doing about the bare-minimum.

Changing rules mid-project to allow for late-inclusion is not something I think most project-runners would have done, and it was something they did at the behest of voters. This was a trend, actually. With pretty much every major decision for this project the voters were allowed to decide what was done, and of course literally everyone was given the opportunity to become a voter; Allowing for the inclusion of ballots like these:
Spoiler:
Magic Johnson - (Grain Version) Yuki
Grade: Special 1
Hoop Expansion - Showtime Slaughter

Ball Techniques:
+ Perfect Passer
+ Bom-Ba-Ball handling; Reverse-Ball Technique - Turbo Transition; Maximum Output - Layup Limbo
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2 3
+ Floor-General - Special Grade

Baller Vow:
+ In Exchange for playing with Kareem, Magic must retire early and let MJ three-peat

Key Chapters:
- Los Angeles School loses conference cross-over
- Hooper Hiccup vs Los Angeles School, Battle 5 - Floor General - Grade 2
- Sealed for 15 battles


Arc Highlight - Conference Cross-Over, Battle 5:

The next era’s strongest hooper decimated Boston’s super-school without his own school’s 2nd most powerful; for the first time in 99 Battles, the king of milkmen experienced the height of tension

...

1. Hakeem Olajuwon - (Grain Version) Maki
Grade: Special
Hoop Expansion - Center Cemetery

Ball Techniques
+ Russellian Remix
+ Post-up Nightmare; Reverse Ball-Technique - Dream Shot; Maximum Output - A Three-Man’s Dream
+ A Almost Dreamer’s Postseason - 2 arc use
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2 3
+ Rim-Protection - Special Grade 1
+ Stoppah - Special Grade; Reverse Ball-Technique - Running Robinsons Junpei Johnson - 1 arc use
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 1

Baller Vow
+ In exchange for dominating Micheal Jordan in Baller-Battles, Hakeem may never face MJ in a battle that matters

Key Chapters:
+ Houston School reaches Conference Cross-over
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Los Angeles School - Bucket Getter - Special Grade; Rim-Protection - Special Grade
+ Hoop Flash vs Boston School, Battle 5 - Bucket Getter - Special Grade; Rim-Protection - Special Grade; Reverse-Ball Technique; Bumbling Birdie
- Sealed for 14 battles


Inane creativity paired with extremely detailed seasonal breakdowns covering peak skill-set, seasonal skillset, playoff fluctuations, commentary on how that skillset affected opposing players, and wow, humor. I'm skeptical most project runners would have allowed this (a former one advocated for exclusion), but when a majority called for their inclusion, Aenigma listened, and we were treated to the internet board version of trout mask replica. Even through a chorus of complaints from posters like these:
OneandDone wrote: I don’t want to hear how other posters have bad faith when you’re allowing a mail-in voter posting incoherent nonsense about “baller vows” to vote.

At no point has One and Done referenced anything in these votes besides the jokes. Do they think Mchale over or undersold as a pinat-protector? Do they Bird really dropped off as a playmaker in the 84 finals?

I don't think voters should be trying to throw out other people's votes, period. But I especially don't think posters who refuse to engage in anything substantive should be able to influence which kinds of posters and posts are considered acceptable for participation and which format they can use to discuss things.

In other projects, they were allowed to. In the 2024 RPOY project, they were not.

That's how projects should be run IMO. And to those who disagree, this board is probably better off without you.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#222 » by One_and_Done » Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:56 am

You are vastly overstating the coherence of Kola's "contributions". Here is one such.

OhayoKD wrote:Kola's Ballot:

Spoiler:
1989

Magic Johnson - (Grain Version) Yuki
Grade: Special
Hoop Expansion - Showtime Slaughter

Ball Techniques:
+ Perfect Passer
+ Bom-Ba-Ball handling; Reverse-Ball Technique - Turbo Transition; Maximum Output - Layup Limbo
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2
+ Floor-General - Special Grade

Baller Vow:
+ In Exchange for playing with Kareem, Magic must retire early and let MJ three-peat

Key Chapters:
+ Los Angeles School reach Conference Cross-over - No battles lost
- Sealed for Conference Cross-Over
- Detroit School get revenge

Michael Jordan - (Grain Version) Kashimo
Grade: Special
Hoop Expansion - Collinearity Merchant

Ball Techniques:
+ Cursed Chucker
+ Mid-Range Kitchen
+ Gifted Gambler; Reverse Ball-Technique; Fastbreak Frenzy
+ Bucket-Getter - Special Grade 1
+ Stoppah - Grade 2

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for a fake DPOY, Jordan can only win playoff games with Pippen

Key Chapters:
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Cleveland School
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs New York School
+ Hooper Burnout vs Detroit School

Hakeem Olajuwon - (Grain Version) Maki
Grade: Special
Hoop Expansion - Center Cemetery

Ball Techniques:
+ Russellian Remix
+ Post-up Nightmare; Reverse Ball-Technique - Dream Shot; Maximum Output - A Three-Man’s Dream
+ A Almost Dreamer’s Postseason - 2 arc use
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2 3
+ Rim-Protection - Special Grade
+ Stoppah - Special Grade; Reverse Ball-Technique - Running Robinsons Junpei Johnson - 1 arc use
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 1

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for dominating Micheal Jordan in Baller-Battles, Hakeem may never face MJ in a battle that matters

Patrick Ewing - (Grain Version) Reggie
Grade: 2 3
Hoop Expansion - None

Ball Techniques:
+ Dunk Devourer
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2
+ Rim-Protection - Grade 1
+ Stoppah - Grade 2
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 1

Charles Barkley - (Grain Version) Panda
Grade: 2 3
Hoop Expansion - None

Ball Techniques:
+ The Brave Little Boarder
+ Needle in the Haystack
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 1 2
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 2; Reverse Technique - Untimely Doubles

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for being the funniest sorcerer, Barkley must attempt and miss 1500 long-range attacks or swear off Pizza


Anyone who thinks this added coherent insights to the project loses credibility with me quickly. The bigger problem though was that it is impossible to engage with a mail in voter, either to persuade them to accept a contrary viewpoint, or in the case of the above example to try and grasp what on earth they are talking about. The excuse that they couldn't access a computer over X many months was transparently insufficient. More likely they were a banned poster, or a sock puppet.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#223 » by AEnigma » Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:10 am

They were indeed banned for “trolling” (which is not what I would assess as any valid reason in context, but that is for site moderators to sort out among themselves), and accordingly I proceeded how I said I would from the start:
AEnigma wrote:Will confirm they reached out to me about posting ballots in advance and I said they should just do it here so people at least have the opportunity to engage with the ballots directly (which is the main reason I have limited third party posting). It is my understanding they are not currently banned; so long as that is true, I am not looking to intentionally discount ballots without good cause.
AEnigma wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:If there's a site or board ban involved, I would have to say no to it as a mod.

As stated, as far as I know, there is no ban in play. I would appreciate moderator notification if that stops being true. And I agree that proxy voting should generally be a rare exception because of how it stands in the way of potential discussion. However, I see a difference with early voting in anticipation of an absence, which is what this should have been, and if people want to engage with the early ballots, I encourage them to do so in this general discussion thread
AEnigma wrote:
OhayoKD wrote:in the case, there is confirmation of a ban or some other complication and her vote is discounted, for the years she has submitted a ballot, I would be happy to forfeit my own ballot and take her votes as my own.

While I can post my own opinion separately, if one must go, her submissions are likely more interesting and insightful than mine will be, and with all the above considered, more deserving of consideration.

I hope in the case that the bulk of the above falls on deaf ears, at least that final proposal is deemed acceptable.

Without endorsing this, I will affirmatively note that I would not forbid it. Everyone dictates the contents of their own ballot. Would be a shame if it came to that though.

No one else really engaged with the ballots as posted, so you are hardly alone there, but you were alone in constantly harping on it to no productive end rather than letting the process run its course.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#224 » by OhayoKD » Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:12 am

One_and_Done wrote:You are vastly overstating the coherence of Kola's "contributions". Here is one such.

OhayoKD wrote:Kola's Ballot:

Spoiler:
1989

Magic Johnson - (Grain Version) Yuki
Grade: Special
Hoop Expansion - Showtime Slaughter

Ball Techniques:
+ Perfect Passer
+ Bom-Ba-Ball handling; Reverse-Ball Technique - Turbo Transition; Maximum Output - Layup Limbo
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2
+ Floor-General - Special Grade

Baller Vow:
+ In Exchange for playing with Kareem, Magic must retire early and let MJ three-peat

Key Chapters:
+ Los Angeles School reach Conference Cross-over - No battles lost
- Sealed for Conference Cross-Over
- Detroit School get revenge

Michael Jordan - (Grain Version) Kashimo
Grade: Special
Hoop Expansion - Collinearity Merchant

Ball Techniques:
+ Cursed Chucker
+ Mid-Range Kitchen
+ Gifted Gambler; Reverse Ball-Technique; Fastbreak Frenzy
+ Bucket-Getter - Special Grade 1
+ Stoppah - Grade 2

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for a fake DPOY, Jordan can only win playoff games with Pippen

Key Chapters:
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs Cleveland School
+ Hoop Flash Flurry vs New York School
+ Hooper Burnout vs Detroit School

Hakeem Olajuwon - (Grain Version) Maki
Grade: Special
Hoop Expansion - Center Cemetery

Ball Techniques:
+ Russellian Remix
+ Post-up Nightmare; Reverse Ball-Technique - Dream Shot; Maximum Output - A Three-Man’s Dream
+ A Almost Dreamer’s Postseason - 2 arc use
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2 3
+ Rim-Protection - Special Grade
+ Stoppah - Special Grade; Reverse Ball-Technique - Running Robinsons Junpei Johnson - 1 arc use
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 1

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for dominating Micheal Jordan in Baller-Battles, Hakeem may never face MJ in a battle that matters

Patrick Ewing - (Grain Version) Reggie
Grade: 2 3
Hoop Expansion - None

Ball Techniques:
+ Dunk Devourer
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2
+ Rim-Protection - Grade 1
+ Stoppah - Grade 2
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 1

Charles Barkley - (Grain Version) Panda
Grade: 2 3
Hoop Expansion - None

Ball Techniques:
+ The Brave Little Boarder
+ Needle in the Haystack
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 1 2
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 2; Reverse Technique - Untimely Doubles

Baller Vow:
+ In exchange for being the funniest sorcerer, Barkley must attempt and miss 1500 long-range attacks or swear off Pizza


Anyone who thinks this added coherent insights to the project loses credibility with me quickly.

I just listed two:
Do they think Mchale over or undersold as a pinat-protector? Do they Bird really dropped off as a playmaker in the 84 finals?

They offered more coherent insights than you ever did. Which is why you have yet to offer a substantive critique.

The bigger problem though was that it is impossible to engage

It is not. And you are not entitled to persuasion. Still waiting for some commentary on the actual basketball.

or in the case of the above example to try and grasp what on earth they are talking about.

It was repeatedly dumbed down for you. You still not being able to grasp is a you problem.

More likely they were a banned poster

If they were it's because of a disingenuous report, which is the vast majority of voters agreed their votes should stand, regardless. Of course what was actually decided was they'd stand excepting confirmation.

or a sock puppet.

Several voters went out of their way to confirm they were real. Maybe if you spent less time grasping for ways to discredit your betters, you'd be able to grasp language anyone with a genuine interest in engagement, understood.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#225 » by One_and_Done » Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:18 am

I don't need to offer a further response. The incoherent nonsense I cited above speaks for itself. Anyone who thinks it was insightful or added value clearly speaks a different version of English to me.

This is his argument for Barkley that I quoted above:

Charles Barkley - (Grain Version) Panda
Grade: 3
Hoop Expansion - None

Ball Techniques:
+ The Brave Little Boarder
+ Needle in the Haystack
+ Bucket-Getter - Grade 2
+ Board-Bringer - Grade 2; Reverse Technique - Untimely Doubles

If we stared at that long enough, no doubt we could imagine what was meant; but it would be pure inference. It is not logically evident from the words, and any 2 of us could draw completely different inferences about it. This is a project for the intelligent exchange of ideas, not amateur art class. Nor is any exchange of ideas possible with a mail in vote. Who knows what he meant. The most coherent inference I got from it was he thinks Barkley was good at scoring and rebounding. Not much of an insight.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#226 » by OhayoKD » Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:38 am

One_and_Done wrote:I don't need to offer a further response. The incoherent nonsense I cited above speaks for itself. Anyone who thinks it was insightful or added value clearly speaks a different version of English to me.

Ah yes the "different version of english" where "Board", universally understood slang for "rebound", and "bucket", universally understood slang for "score" are attached to verbs that denote a rebound or a basket was gotten or brought to the their team.

Hot take: If you cannot extrapolate "rebounder" from "board-bringer", the issue is you.

This project is for posters to vote and offer reasoning behind their votes, not to help you through Middle-School English. You don't need to understand someone's vote. You need to respect that they deserve to have one as much as you do.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#227 » by One_and_Done » Thu Feb 13, 2025 6:38 am

OhayoKD wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:I don't need to offer a further response. The incoherent nonsense I cited above speaks for itself. Anyone who thinks it was insightful or added value clearly speaks a different version of English to me.

Ah yes the "different version of english" where "Board", universally understood slang for "rebound", and "bucket", universally understood slang for "score" are attached to verbs that denote a rebound or a basket was gotten or brought to the their team.

Hot take: If you cannot extrapolate "rebounder" from "board-bringer", the issue is you.

This project is for posters to vote and offer reasoning behind their votes, not to help you through Middle-School English. You don't need to understand someone's vote. You need to respect that they deserve to have one as much as you do.

Pretending that the issue here is me not understanding that 'board' means 'rebound' is beyond disingenuous.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#228 » by 70sFan » Thu Feb 13, 2025 8:24 am

I haven't been as active as I wanted to be, but thank you for running the project. It was exciting journey and you managed it very well!
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#229 » by magicman1978 » Thu Feb 13, 2025 3:13 pm

I did not participate in the project, but enjoyed reading the explanations / reasoning for the votes and many of the discussions and don't particularly care about the outcome itself. Will also add to those that have commended AEnigma for doing a great job running the project. I especially appreciate the great summaries provided. It definitely took a lot of effort.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#230 » by B-Mitch 30 » Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:46 am

Thanks for running the project Enigma, I thought it was nice you let me start voting late into it, and you definitely did a good job.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#231 » by KembaWalker » Sun Feb 16, 2025 10:41 pm

the project provided ample entertainment
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#232 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Feb 17, 2025 4:53 pm

AEnigma wrote:This iteration of the “Retro Player of the Year” project spanned all seasons from 1950-2014 (seventy-five threads).
Spoiler:
Twenty-eight active posters contributed at least one ballot, with participation in any given thread ranging from nine ballots to nineteen ballots. The most frequent voters were Djoker, trelos, and AEnigma.

This iteration of the project awarded different RPoYs from the 2010 project in the following years: 2008, 2002, 1989, 1988, 1986, 1985, 1982, 1976, 1970, 1966, and 1964, plus a tie in 2001. When including the 2010 project in the voting tallies, there were three changed RPoY winners in aggregate: in 2002 (Shaq to Duncan), in 1985 (Bird to Magic), and in 1966 (Wilt to Russell), plus a new tie in 2008 (Garnett and Kobe). The youngest RPoY winners were 1982 Magic Johnson (22), 1999 Tim Duncan (23), 1970 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (23), 1986 Hakeem Olajuwon (23), and 2008 Lebron James (23); Kareem was the only rookie winner. The oldest winners were 2020 Lebron James (separate from this iteration), 1998 Michael Jordan, and 1969 Bill Russell (all 35). The record for the lowest winning vote share in this iteration of the project was 1975 Rick Barry (0.683 vote shares), and the record for the lowest winning combined vote share was 2008 Garnett/Kobe (0.664 vote shares). The thread with the smallest range of RPoY ballot selections in this iteration was 1960 (5), and the threads with the smallest range of combined RPoY ballot selections were 1962 and 1964 (6). Further analysis of the aggregated ballots will be provided at a later date.

This iteration of the project also added ballots for (Retro) Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year, which the annual Player of the Year project first introduced in 2015. We added 22 new names alongside the 4 OPoY winners from 2015-24, and we added 27 new names alongside the 3 DPoY winners from 2015-24. The youngest OPoYs were 1982 Magic Johnson and 1961 Oscar Robertson (both 22; Oscar was the only rookie winner), and the oldest OPoY was 2010 Steve Nash (36). The youngest DPoYs were 1957 Bill Russell and 2009 Dwight Howard (both 23; Russell was the only rookie winner), and the oldest DPoYs were 1973 Wilt Chamberlain and 2012 Kevin Garnett (both 36). The record for the lowest winning OPoY vote share was 1994 Reggie Miller (0.360 vote shares), and the record for the lowest winning DPoY vote share was 1980 Caldwell Jones and 1981 Robert Parish (0.422 vote shares). 1980 was especially divisive for DPoY voting, as twelve different players received votes — which is fifty percent larger than the largest range for any single OPoY vote, and matches the largest range this project had for RPoY voting!

Multiple-Time Offensive Players of the Year

    1. Magic Johnson (10 wins)
    2. Oscar Robertson (9* wins)
    3. Lebron James (4 + 2 wins)
    3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6 wins)
    5. Michael Jordan (5 wins)
    5. Shaquille O’Neal (5 wins)
    7a. Steve Nash (4 wins)
    7a. Nikola Jokic (0 + 4 wins)
    7c. Bob Cousy (4* wins)
    10a. Steph Curry (0 + 3 wins)
    10a. Bob Pettit (3 wins)
    10c. Jerry West (3* wins)
    13a. Dirk Nowitzki (2 wins)
    13b. Paul Arizin (2* wins)
Elgin Baylor had the most top two finishes without a win (4), and Karl Malone had the most top three finishes without a win (6*).

If we applied the same 5-3-1 scoring system to podium finishes, these would be the top fifteen:

    1a. Magic Johnson (10-0-1* for 51 total)
    1b. Oscar Robertson (9*-2*-0 for 51 total)
    3. Lebron James (6-6*-1 for 49 total)
    4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6-3*-2* for 41 total)
    5. Michael Jordan (5-4-1 for 38 total)
    6. Jerry West (3*-4-3 for 30 total)
    7. Shaquille O’Neal (5-1-1 for 29 total)
    8. Bob Cousy (4*-2-0 for 26 total)
    8. Steph Curry (3-3*-2* for 26 total)
    10. Steve Nash (4-1-1 for 24 total)
    10. Nikola Jokic (4-1*-1 for 24 total)
    12. Dirk Nowitzki (2-3*-1 for 20 total)
    12. Larry Bird (1-4-3* for 20 total)
    14. Bob Pettit (3-1-1* for 19 total)
    15. Kobe Bryant (1-3*-2* for 16 total)

Multiple-Time Defensive Players of the Year

    1. Bill Russell (13 wins)
    2. Hakeem Olajuwon (6 wins)
    3. Rudy Gobert (0 + 5 wins)
    3. George Mikan (5 wins)
    5. Tim Duncan (4 wins)
    5. Kevin Garnett (4 wins)
    7. Ben Wallace (3 wins)
    7. Mark Eaton (3 wins)
    7. Draymond Green (0 + 3 wins)
    7. Dikembe Mutombo (3 wins)
    11. Wilt Chamberlain (2 wins)
    11. David Robinson (2 wins)
    11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2 wins)
    11. Mel Hutchins (2 wins)
    11. Anthony Davis (0 + 2 wins)
    11. Bill Walton (2 wins)
Nate Thurmond had the most top two (4) and top three (9) finishes without a win. :( He came closest in 1967 (0.689 shares, only two points behind Bill Russell).

If we applied the same 5-3-1 scoring system to podium finishes, these would be the top fifteen:

    1. Bill Russell (13-0-0 for 65 total)
    2. Hakeem Olajuwon (6-4-1 for 43 total)
    3. Tim Duncan (4-5-3 for 38 total)
    4. Kevin Garnett (4-2-7* for 33 total)
    4. Wilt Chamberlain (2-7-2 for 33 total)
    6. Rudy Gobert (5-1-2* for 30 total)
    7. Ben Wallace (3-3-0 for 24 total)
    7. Mark Eaton (3-3-0 for 24 total)
    9. Draymond Green (3-2-2 for 23 total)
    10. Dikembe Mutombo (3-2-0 for 21 total)
    10. David Robinson (2-2-5* for 21 total)
    12. Nate Thurmond (0-4-5 for 17 total)
    13. Elvin Hayes (1-3-1 for 15 total)
    14. Bobby Jones (0-3*-5* for 14 total)
    15. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2-1-0 for 13 total)
    15. Dwight Howard (1-2-2 for 13 total)

Multiple-Time Players of the Year

    1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (10 wins)
    1. Lebron James (6 + 4 wins)
    3. Bill Russell (9 wins)
    4a. Michael Jordan (6 wins)
    4b. Tim Duncan (6* wins)
    6. Magic Johnson (5 wins)
    6. George Mikan (5 wins)
    8. Hakeem Olajuwon (4 wins)
    9. Nikola Jokic (0 + 3 wins)
    10a. Larry Bird (2 wins)
    10a. Bob Pettit (2 wins)
    10c. Shaquille O’Neal (2* wins)
In this iteration of the project, Julius Erving had the most top two (4), top three (5) and top four (8) finishes without a win, and Oscar Robertson had the most top four (8) and top five (9) finishes without a win. Using the combined project results (which give a win to 1976 Erving and 1970 West), Kevin Durant and David Robinson have the most top two (3) finishes without a win, and Oscar Robertson has the most top three (5), top four (9), and top five (10) finishes without a win.

If we applied the same 10-7-5-3-1 scoring system to podium finishes, these would be the top twenty-five for this iteration of the project:

    1. Lebron James (10-2-1-0-1 for 120 total)
    2. Bill Russell (9-4-0-0-0 for 118 total)
    3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (10-0-3*-0-2 for 117 total)
    4. Tim Duncan (6*-2-1-3-2 for 90 total)
    5. Magic Johnson (5-4-1-1-0 for 86 total)
    6. Michael Jordan (6-3-0-1-1 for 85 total)
    7. Wilt Chamberlain (2-6-2-2-0 for 78 total)
    8. Hakeem Olajuwon (4-2-3-0-1 for 70 total)
    9. Shaquille O’Neal (2*-3-3-3-0 for 65 total)
    10. Dolph Schayes (1-4*-4-0-2 for 60 total)
    11. Larry Bird (2-2-3*-2-0 for 55 total)
    12. George Mikan (5-0-0-0-0 for 50 total)
    13. Kevin Garnett (1-2-4-1-1 for 48 total)
    14. Nikola Jokic (3-1-1-0-1 for 43 total)
    14. Bob Pettit (2-1-2-1-3 for 43 total)
    14. Julius Erving (0-4-1-3-1 for 43 total)
    17. Steph Curry (1-3-0-2-1 for 38 total)
    18. Oscar Robertson (0-1-3-4-3 for 37 total)
    19. Jerry West (0-3-1-2-2 for 34 total)
    20. Kevin Durant (0-3-1-1-1 for 30 total)
    21. Kobe Bryant (0-2-2-1-2 for 29 total)
    21. Bob Cousy (0-2-2-1-2 for 29 total)
    21. David Robinson (0-3-1-0-3 for 29 total)
    24. Moses Malone (1-1-2-0-1 for 28 total)
    25. Dwyane Wade (1-1-1-1-0 for 25 total)
The official share aggregating will take quite some time and will not be a direct match, but I hope this list will give people a sense of how the total share count might look.

Thank you again to everyone who put in the time to vote.


I want to congratulate the group for getting through the marathon, and AEnigma in particular for running the project!

Let me also say, AEnigma's found errors in my spreadsheet that I need to fix when I get a minute, and I thank him for that!
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IlikeSHAIguys
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#233 » by IlikeSHAIguys » Wed Feb 19, 2025 4:07 am

Grainer getting banned is pretty lame. I'm not in charge but their stuff should count imo.
KembaWalker
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#234 » by KembaWalker » Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:58 pm

IlikeSHAIguys wrote:Grainer getting banned is pretty lame. I'm not in charge but their stuff should count imo.


yeah, i mean half this particular board is alt accounts including yourself, so targeting one person is pretty dumb. but thats RealGM administration and moderation for you. they probably don't even know what a VPN is. not exactly dealing with the best and brightest here
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#235 » by penbeast0 » Fri Feb 21, 2025 4:18 pm

Congratulations to AEnigma for staying the course and running the whole project from start to finish.

And it is true that I don't know what a VPN is. On the other hand, I've met a lot of computer programmers who don't know what estoppel is, doesn't make them dumb. Just not an area of expertise.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#236 » by 70sFan » Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:43 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
IlikeSHAIguys wrote:Grainer getting banned is pretty lame. I'm not in charge but their stuff should count imo.


yeah, i mean half this particular board is alt accounts including yourself, so targeting one person is pretty dumb. but thats RealGM administration and moderation for you. they probably don't even know what a VPN is. not exactly dealing with the best and brightest here

Is there any reason why you decided to make this comment? As far as I know, you don't post on PC Board and you didn't participate in the project. I don't think making fun of moderators, because they don't know what VPN is, is a good reason to post. At least I wouldn't do that if I were you.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#237 » by KembaWalker » Fri Feb 21, 2025 6:04 pm

70sFan wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
IlikeSHAIguys wrote:Grainer getting banned is pretty lame. I'm not in charge but their stuff should count imo.


yeah, i mean half this particular board is alt accounts including yourself, so targeting one person is pretty dumb. but thats RealGM administration and moderation for you. they probably don't even know what a VPN is. not exactly dealing with the best and brightest here

Is there any reason why you decided to make this comment? As far as I know, you don't post on PC Board and you didn't participate in the project. I don't think making fun of moderators, because they don't know what VPN is, is a good reason to post. At least I wouldn't do that if I were you.


Why would I participate in anything to just to discuss with half a dozen admitted alts? It’s an extreme waste of time until the problem is fixed. If there’s no plan on taking action against the rather obvious issue of alt accounting and the mods take personal offense on being called out for their continued inaction as they have done so far that’s their prerogative. They’re welcome to be as offended as they want even they want, they’re a sensitive bunch and would rather cater to a bunch of alts to long term members so I don’t really hold their opinion or decision making in general in very high regard. Again, this isn’t an opinion, the massive alt issue has been discussed and literally confirmed by moderation in DM convo so I’m not telling them anything they don’t already know and I’m not slandering them. They know it’s a major problem and still don’t do anything.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#238 » by 70sFan » Fri Feb 21, 2025 6:44 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
70sFan wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
yeah, i mean half this particular board is alt accounts including yourself, so targeting one person is pretty dumb. but thats RealGM administration and moderation for you. they probably don't even know what a VPN is. not exactly dealing with the best and brightest here

Is there any reason why you decided to make this comment? As far as I know, you don't post on PC Board and you didn't participate in the project. I don't think making fun of moderators, because they don't know what VPN is, is a good reason to post. At least I wouldn't do that if I were you.


Why would I participate in anything to just to discuss with half a dozen admitted alts? It’s an extreme waste of time until the problem is fixed. If there’s no plan on taking action against the rather obvious issue of alt accounting and the mods take personal offense on being called out for their continued inaction as they have done so far that’s their prerogative. They’re welcome to be as offended as they want even they want, they’re a sensitive bunch and would rather cater to a bunch of alts to long term members so I don’t really hold their opinion or decision making in general in very high regard. Again, this isn’t an opinion, the massive alt issue has been discussed and literally confirmed by moderation in DM convo so I’m not telling them anything they don’t already know and I’m not slandering them. They know it’s a major problem and still don’t do anything.

I don't know as much about this issue as you, but that's not the reason to mock mods on the finished project thread, don't you think?
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#239 » by KembaWalker » Fri Feb 21, 2025 6:54 pm

70sFan wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
70sFan wrote:Is there any reason why you decided to make this comment? As far as I know, you don't post on PC Board and you didn't participate in the project. I don't think making fun of moderators, because they don't know what VPN is, is a good reason to post. At least I wouldn't do that if I were you.


Why would I participate in anything to just to discuss with half a dozen admitted alts? It’s an extreme waste of time until the problem is fixed. If there’s no plan on taking action against the rather obvious issue of alt accounting and the mods take personal offense on being called out for their continued inaction as they have done so far that’s their prerogative. They’re welcome to be as offended as they want even they want, they’re a sensitive bunch and would rather cater to a bunch of alts to long term members so I don’t really hold their opinion or decision making in general in very high regard. Again, this isn’t an opinion, the massive alt issue has been discussed and literally confirmed by moderation in DM convo so I’m not telling them anything they don’t already know and I’m not slandering them. They know it’s a major problem and still don’t do anything.

I don't know as much about this issue as you, but that's not the reason to mock mods on the finished project thread, don't you think?


Well the entire project was a total joke and complete embarrassment to the board from the get go for this exact reason so it’s not exactly off topic.
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread] 

Post#240 » by 70sFan » Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:49 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
70sFan wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
Why would I participate in anything to just to discuss with half a dozen admitted alts? It’s an extreme waste of time until the problem is fixed. If there’s no plan on taking action against the rather obvious issue of alt accounting and the mods take personal offense on being called out for their continued inaction as they have done so far that’s their prerogative. They’re welcome to be as offended as they want even they want, they’re a sensitive bunch and would rather cater to a bunch of alts to long term members so I don’t really hold their opinion or decision making in general in very high regard. Again, this isn’t an opinion, the massive alt issue has been discussed and literally confirmed by moderation in DM convo so I’m not telling them anything they don’t already know and I’m not slandering them. They know it’s a major problem and still don’t do anything.

I don't know as much about this issue as you, but that's not the reason to mock mods on the finished project thread, don't you think?


Well the entire project was a total joke and complete embarrassment to the board from the get go for this exact reason so it’s not exactly off topic.

Then why you kept wasting your time on engaging in that project?

I personally have seen a fair amount of great discussion in this project.

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