OKC Thunder Offseason 2017: The Reshapening

[getrichordie]

Rudy Gay's defensive matchups from the 2015-16 season

Where do you find those stats?

[slick_watts]

Do I really need to explain to you what blue collar is?

Am I completely way off-base in thinking both the Jazz and Thunder franchises have that feel about them? Both are small market franchises that come with virtually no flash. I don't know, maybe blue collar/hardworking, put on your hardhat and go to work, isn't the best idioms to use to explain them. Part of my line of thinking, too, is Utah has only one pro sports team to root on, same as Oklahoma, so there tends to be a more loyal, hold-strong traditional feel to those fanbases.

i think presti and the thunder exploit that veneer but it's curious how so many players leave the thunder nonplussed (waiters being the latest example).

does being a blue collar team mean you work harder than the other teams? do you think the jazz and the thunder do?

Of course not. I know that's a silly notion. Every franchise (players, coaches, front office) works roughly as hard as the other 29 franchises.

I mostly think of the fanbases of such teams (small market, lone pro sports franchises) that are blue collar. And, in a way, I think that can vaguely rub off on the team itself. I mean I do think there is still a level of bluecollar-ish work ethic in the front offices of a team like the Thunder and Jazz, because they know they aren't going to lure FAs to their town, so they have to be willing to gamble and strike out more in the draft, with trades, and through non-flashy free agency gambles. However, I do think the "blue collar" persona of the fanbase can sometimes rub off on the players.

the evidence that i have seen makes me believe that players find this approach patronizing in the long run. sam presti goes to great lengths to emphasize these qualities through the media. i wonder how much of it is actually a part of the team culture.

small market seems like a sufficient term to use to identify a team with the above challenges. blue collar creates, imo, an uncomfortable distinction.

[getrichordie]

i think presti and the thunder exploit that veneer but it's curious how so many players leave the thunder nonplussed (waiters being the latest example).

does being a blue collar team mean you work harder than the other teams? do you think the jazz and the thunder do?

Of course not. I know that's a silly notion. Every franchise (players, coaches, front office) works roughly as hard as the other 29 franchises.

I mostly think of the fanbases of such teams (small market, lone pro sports franchises) that are blue collar. And, in a way, I think that can vaguely rub off on the team itself. I mean I do think there is still a level of bluecollar-ish work ethic in the front offices of a team like the Thunder and Jazz, because they know they aren't going to lure FAs to their town, so they have to be willing to gamble and strike out more in the draft, with trades, and through non-flashy free agency gambles. However, I do think the "blue collar" persona of the fanbase can sometimes rub off on the players.

the evidence that i have seen makes me believe that players find this approach patronizing in the long run. sam presti goes to great lengths to emphasize these qualities through the media. i wonder how much of it is actually a part of the team culture.

small market seems like a sufficient term to use to identify a team with the above challenges. blue collar creates, imo, an uncomfortable distinction.

I hear you on that. The whole blue-collar, white-collar labeling shouldn't be a thing when describing franchises. Players? Maybe. I only get the comparison in the sense that small market teams undeniably have more work cut out for them than a big-market team when it comes to acquiring talent since they aren't considered a destination city such as Los Angeles, Miami, and New York. Maybe the league should work in some type of tax break for smaller market teams so they can be on a level playing field with bigger cities...

[getrichordie]

****! Orlando is going to get Beasley. Smh. Assuming Beasley wants more years, that is. Warriors are eye-ing him too.

[Old Man Game]

Would be willing to give Eric Moreland a look on a ten day also.

[getrichordie]

Would be willing to give Eric Moreland a look on a ten day also.

You like Moreland over Hunter, eh?

[QPR]

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[Atomic Punk]

Of course not. I know that's a silly notion. Every franchise (players, coaches, front office) works roughly as hard as the other 29 franchises.

I mostly think of the fanbases of such teams (small market, lone pro sports franchises) that are blue collar. And, in a way, I think that can vaguely rub off on the team itself. I mean I do think there is still a level of bluecollar-ish work ethic in the front offices of a team like the Thunder and Jazz, because they know they aren't going to lure FAs to their town, so they have to be willing to gamble and strike out more in the draft, with trades, and through non-flashy free agency gambles. However, I do think the "blue collar" persona of the fanbase can sometimes rub off on the players.

the evidence that i have seen makes me believe that players find this approach patronizing in the long run. sam presti goes to great lengths to emphasize these qualities through the media. i wonder how much of it is actually a part of the team culture.

small market seems like a sufficient term to use to identify a team with the above challenges. blue collar creates, imo, an uncomfortable distinction.[/

I hear you on that. The whole blue-collar, white-collar labeling shouldn't be a thing when describing franchises. Players? Maybe. I only get the comparison in the sense that small market teams undeniably have more work cut out for them than a big-market team when it comes to acquiring talent since they aren't considered a destination city such as Los Angeles, Miami, and New York. Maybe the league should work in some type of tax break for smaller market teams so they can be on a level playing field with bigger cities...

So are you saying that it is because of the current rules that small market teams are at a competitive disadvantage? And that the league should change the rules to, as you said, level the playing field?

[getrichordie]

the evidence that i have seen makes me believe that players find this approach patronizing in the long run. sam presti goes to great lengths to emphasize these qualities through the media. i wonder how much of it is actually a part of the team culture.

small market seems like a sufficient term to use to identify a team with the above challenges. blue collar creates, imo, an uncomfortable distinction.[/

I hear you on that. The whole blue-collar, white-collar labeling shouldn't be a thing when describing franchises. Players? Maybe. I only get the comparison in the sense that small market teams undeniably have more work cut out for them than a big-market team when it comes to acquiring talent since they aren't considered a destination city such as Los Angeles, Miami, and New York. Maybe the league should work in some type of tax break for smaller market teams so they can be on a level playing field with bigger cities...

So are you saying that it is because of the current rules that small market teams are at a competitive disadvantage? And that the league should change the rules to, as you said, level the playing field?

I'm not particularly well-versed in the rules but it seems whatever they are that smaller markets are at a disadvantage, especially in FA.

[Atomic Punk]

So are you saying that it is because of the current rules that small market teams are at a competitive disadvantage? And that the league should change the rules to, as you said, level the playing field?

I'm not particularly well-versed in the rules but it seems whatever they are that smaller markets are at a disadvantage, especially in FA.

The problem isn't the rules, it's the market. Hawaii is a popular vacation destination, Kansas is not, no amount of rule changes will ever change that.

[Atomic Punk]

So are you saying that it is because of the current rules that small market teams are at a competitive disadvantage? And that the league should change the rules to, as you said, level the playing field?

I'm not particularly well-versed in the rules but it seems whatever they are that smaller markets are at a disadvantage, especially in FA.

The problem isn't the rules, it's the market. Hawaii is a popular vacation destination, Kansas is not, no amount of rule changes will ever change that.

By the way, I am not trying to argue with you here, I am as frustrated as the next guy that teams like OKC, The Jazz, etc. struggle in FA. But this is the current reality of the NBA.

[ThunderBolt]

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I'm curious if someone else will offer him what he wants and if/when that happens what Presti will do.

[Atomic Punk]

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I'm curious if someone else will offer him what he wants and if/when that happens what Presti will do.

The Heat are about to have a ton of cap space.........

[slick_watts]

if the thunder are offering a mid-level exception salary and another team (e.g. miami) is offering the same salary, there will be a destination preference among most players that makes this an easy decision. that's the challenge for the thunder. being a small market has nothing to do with it imo. the current state of the thunder has nothing to do with being a small market, it has to do with the cap spike allowing kd to leave. thunder have been taxpayers and were #2 in payroll as recently as 2015. trading james harden is cited as a 'small market' decision, but really it wasn't.

on rudy gay- i hope we don't get him.

[Atomic Punk]

if the thunder are offering a mid-level exception salary and another team (e.g. miami) is offering the same salary, there will be a destination preference among most players that makes this an easy decision. that's the challenge for the thunder. being a small market has nothing to do with it imo. the current state of the thunder has nothing to do with being a small market, it has to do with the cap spike allowing kd to leave. thunder have been taxpayers and were #2 in payroll as recently as 2015. trading james harden is cited as a 'small market' decision, but really it wasn't.

on rudy gay- i hope we don't get him.

With all due respect, aren't small market and destination somewhat synonymous? All things being equal, if I have a choice between living in Oklahoma and Miami, I am choosing Miami. Trading James Harden wasn't just a small market decision, It was a financial decision driven in part by the reality of running an NBA franchise in a small market. There is a reason Pesti uses the word sustainable almost every time he opens his mouth, the Thunder simply can't afford to shell out the kind of money that a team like the Warriors are shelling out. Have you seen what their projected salary + tax bill will look like in a few years? $400 Million. That is not a sustainable model for a team like the Thunder.

BTW, while I don't disagree with your assessment of of the cap spike allowing Durant the opportunity to leave when he did, in light of his financial "sacrifice" in re-signing with the Warriors, I wonder if he would have offered the same kind of deal to the Thunder so that they could have retained Harden.

[ThunderBolt]

I might be off the Patterson bandwagon after reading this.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1589303#start_here

[getrichordie]

Maybe Presti is waiting on the Hayward decision to see where the dominoes fall before pulling the trigger on Gay.

[Atomic Punk]

I might be off the Patterson bandwagon after reading this.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1589303#start_here

He definitely has value as a backup/spot starter playing around 20-25 min per game. Decent defender, ok shooter/scorer, poor defensive rebounder. I wouldn't break the bank for him, but for the right price, he would be a solid contributor.

[Atomic Punk]

Maybe Presti is waiting on the Hayward decision to see where the dominoes fall before pulling the trigger on Gay.

I agree. Wild thought here, is there a chance Presti traded for PG just to flip him?

[ThunderBolt]

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When you have stars, everything else falls in place.