Summer 2019 Free Agency Thread

[snoopdogg88]

Are there any “insiders” with juicy gossip on this sub anymore?

Give me something, while I’m stuck at my desk on this beautiful Friday.

[AirP.]

I really feel like Jimmy is living off of reputation as a defender at this point. I was not impressed what so ever with his D. Not saying he’s bad, but the elite shut down guy that he has a reputation for was no where to be seen in my opinion. Not sure if my expectations were too high based on reading what a defensive presence he was, or he’s just made business decisions to ramp down his D at this point in his career.

Philly plays a switching defense, the guy with the ball can choose to get Butler or Simmons switched off him for a more favorable defensive player which makes a huge difference and gives Butler less time against the guy with the ball. I'm used to seeing Butler trying to stick to his man, fighting through picks and making his man work, with Philly, not much of that at all, just take your switch and like it.

To me, it seemed like he had a number of defensive plays most players don't make.

Watch on YouTube

And there's so much people miss like Butler knowing where to be and blocking out the other team to allow teammates to get rebounds... which contribute to less possessions for the other team.

Watch on YouTube

Even in the playoffs, he made huge defensive plays, AI liked this one...

Watch on YouTube

I get Butler isn't a gifted player like some of the top tier guys, but there are VERY FEW players that seem to make big plays in crunch time, Butler is one of those few players who seem to make those crucial big plays on BOTH sides of the ball. If you want success in the playoffs, these are the type of players you acquire or keep.

[76ciology]

Btw, i dont think Jimmy, Cp3 and Harden can work.

Offensively, those three can’t defer. Butler is gonna see way less ball duties. Defensively, butler doesnt have the size to defend the 3.

Jalen Rose is wrong to say Jimmy is a better fit with the rox than with us

The guy doesnt know what he’s talking. Jimmy is not a good spot up shooter or a post player. And most importantly, he wants the ball in his hands.

Butler deferred in Minnesota his first 6 weeks till he just didn't see the desire in the young players. For most of the season in Philly he deferred the first 3 quarters (that type of play is nowhere near worth a max) of games and then took over in the 4th, his role would be basically the same in Houston. One knock against Harden is that he hunts for fouls late and if he doesn't get them it's a huge problem, that's where Butler would come in as he did in Philly. I'm not so sure he really likes being in bubble wrap the first 3 quarters through(which he was in Philly and would be in Houston), most guys who can score usually like to be in the flow of the game most of the game. Philly fans finally got to see what Butler could do when he started being used more as a playmaker later in the season and against the eventual champs.

Butler doesn't have the size to defend the 3? He's 6-7, strong and most of his career under Thibodeau was guarding the toughest 3s in a nonswitching defense making players like LeBron and P.George work for their offense. In Philly and the switching defense they used, he didn't seem as locked in defending, I'm guessing it had more to do with not being comfortable on defense. Last summer Thibodeau had mentioned starting to utilize Butler at the 4 some. I'm actually surprised Butler is still playing the 2 instead of being a full time 3.

I hope Butler stays in Philly, I could see him and Embiid winning multiple championships together, they're just 2-way difference makers vs the toughest teams. The biggest issue may be Butler may want to hear he'd be utilized more with the ball, somewhat like he was in the 2nd round, that would lead to issues with Simmons with the ball in his hands less. Although Butler doesn't get as many assists as Simmons, he's a more dynamic scorer and turns over the ball much less than Simmons which makes him a very efficient playmaker, hence why his real +/- seems to be much higher then people expect.

He is perfect with the Sixers. Offensively, he should be the primary ball handler from the perimeter and run PnR. If he wants to take a rest then he can let Biid operate at the post or for Ben to... i dont know.. run fast then pass to shooters?

Anyway, defensively I dont think he can defend the elite wings where I saw Kawhi scored on him at will where he didnt make kawhi work for his points. He’s 6’7 and strong, but he lacks the length of the elite wings. I like him defending PGs and SGs though.

Dont know if players do consider fit and winning in their FA decisions. Honestly, and maybe because i’m old so im realist, these players just want to play for a city where they can enjoy spending their money with or in a city with less or no tax

[smittybanton]

After getting absolutely nothing out of TJ, Markelle, Jonathan Simmons, I'm really looking forward to running it back but with a guard off the bench who can make an impact. At least Boban was useful in the series against the Nets. We could bring Boban back, and maybe we can find a really cheap center whose only positive attribute is pick and roll defense. I guess that's Kyle Oquinn. I wonder if the spring buyout market will have guys like Ian Mahinmi or Bismack Biyombo in it?

Moving that direction frees up the MLE for the backup point guard spot. Feel like we really need to lay our hands on Beverly, Satoransky (rfa). Delon Wright (rfa) or Rondo. Darren Collison at worst. Going below that feels treacherous. Anybody feel strongly about Quinn Cook? I was a bit of a hater his first summer league. He's proven me wrong so far.

[smittybanton]

I really feel like Jimmy is living off of reputation as a defender at this point. I was not impressed what so ever with his D. Not saying he’s bad, but the elite shut down guy that he has a reputation for was no where to be seen in my opinion. Not sure if my expectations were too high based on reading what a defensive presence he was, or he’s just made business decisions to ramp down his D at this point in his career.

Philly plays a switching defense, the guy with the ball can choose to get Butler or Simmons switched off him for a more favorable defensive player which makes a huge difference and gives Butler less time against the guy with the ball. I'm used to seeing Butler trying to stick to his man, fighting through picks and making his man work, with Philly, not much of that at all, just take your switch and like it.

To me, it seemed like he had a number of defensive plays most players don't make.

Watch on YouTube

And there's so much people miss like Butler knowing where to be and blocking out the other team to allow teammates to get rebounds... which contribute to less possessions for the other team.

Watch on YouTube

Even in the playoffs, he made huge defensive plays, AI liked this one...

Watch on YouTube

I get Butler isn't a gifted player like some of the top tier guys, but there are VERY FEW players that seem to make big plays in crunch time, Butler is one of those few players who seem to make those crucial big plays on BOTH sides of the ball. If you want success in the playoffs, these are the type of players you acquire or keep.

I agree with both of you. I too thought Jimmy was a better pressure defender. After watching Covington defend point guards on a regular, I had hoped Jimmy was taking that role, which was clearly not the case. On the other hand, he was the classic "heady" defender who knows where to be at the right times. And also knows where everyone else is supposed to be, which is big part of his value to me. He was absolutely that dawg captain the sixers young guys needed and still need, in my opinion.

[youngcrev]

I really feel like Jimmy is living off of reputation as a defender at this point. I was not impressed what so ever with his D. Not saying he’s bad, but the elite shut down guy that he has a reputation for was no where to be seen in my opinion. Not sure if my expectations were too high based on reading what a defensive presence he was, or he’s just made business decisions to ramp down his D at this point in his career.

I was disappointed in his defense at times (seemed like he'd make bad gambles for the ball whenever he found himself in the post), but he's a good defensive player. Elite, shut down guy? No. But who really fits into the that category anymore? Maybe Kawhi?

He's a solid on ball guy that can guard multiple positions and gets a lot of steals (6th) and deflections (12th). RPM favors him as well.

[Sixerscan]

After getting absolutely nothing out of TJ, Markelle, Jonathan Simmons, I'm really looking forward to running it back but with a guard off the bench who can make an impact. At least Boban was useful in the series against the Nets. We could bring Boban back, and maybe we can find a really cheap center whose only positive attribute is pick and roll defense. I guess that's Kyle Oquinn. I wonder if the spring buyout market will have guys like Ian Mahinmi or Bismack Biyombo in it?

Moving that direction frees up the MLE for the backup point guard spot. Feel like we really need to lay our hands on Beverly, Satoransky (rfa). Delon Wright (rfa) or Rondo. Darren Collison at worst. Going below that feels treacherous. Anybody feel strongly about Quinn Cook? I was a bit of a hater his first summer league. He's proven me wrong so far.

The Dunc’d on mock off season brought the starters and Scott back, then Seth Curry and Taj Gibson. Similar idea.

[cool93]

After getting absolutely nothing out of TJ, Markelle, Jonathan Simmons, I'm really looking forward to running it back but with a guard off the bench who can make an impact. At least Boban was useful in the series against the Nets. We could bring Boban back, and maybe we can find a really cheap center whose only positive attribute is pick and roll defense. I guess that's Kyle Oquinn. I wonder if the spring buyout market will have guys like Ian Mahinmi or Bismack Biyombo in it?

Moving that direction frees up the MLE for the backup point guard spot. Feel like we really need to lay our hands on Beverly, Satoransky (rfa). Delon Wright (rfa) or Rondo. Darren Collison at worst. Going below that feels treacherous. Anybody feel strongly about Quinn Cook? I was a bit of a hater his first summer league. He's proven me wrong so far.

The Dunc’d on mock off season brought the starters and Scott back, then Seth Curry and Taj Gibson. Similar idea.

There is no way we bring Butler and Harris back on 150/5 contract like it was there.

[AirP.]

He is perfect with the Sixers. Offensively, he should be the primary ball handler from the perimeter and run PnR. If he wants to take a rest then he can let Biid operate at the post or for Ben to... i dont know.. run fast then pass to shooters?

Anyway, defensively I dont think he can defend the elite wings where I saw Kawhi scored on him at will where he didnt make kawhi work for his points. He’s 6’7 and strong, but he lacks the length of the elite wings. I like him defending PGs and SGs though.

Dont know if players do consider fit and winning in their FA decisions. Honestly, and maybe because i’m old so im realist, these players just want to play for a city where they can enjoy spending their money with or in a city with less or no tax

No single player was slowing down Kawhi, not only is he incredibly long he has a jumper where he releases very high.

I don't think Butler cares about the money, he's getting paid and probably only cares that he can say he's getting the max. He listed LA, Brooklyn and even New York as destinations he wanted to be traded to last year, those are some heavy taxed areas.

I believe Butler was vastly underutilized in Philly, but that was to keep Simmons happy (who to me should be a PF and really only handle the ball on breaks) early on and then Harris and Simmons happy. Although Embiid, Simmons, Butler and Harris should be around max level players, their synergy doesn't work good together. I don't know if Philly can keep all 4 together and happy with how much they handle the ball, Embiid's getting his touches at the top guy, after that there's a couple of combinations of the 3 others that make sense, someone or someone(s) are going to waste some/a lot of their talent for the betterment of the team and with that... a huge overpayment at or near the max.

I'm old too, as a kid I used to go to Kansas City Kings games with my dad (when they left I followed 1 of the only 2 teams I could watch on cable... Chicago).

[smittybanton]

I think many people would be more at peace with the idea of losing Jimmy or Tobias if they really considered how business men view luxury tax as opposed to how fans view luxury tax. I, honestly, have never considered it a possibility that the 76ers would pay both Jimmy and Tobias max deals unless the 76ers won the Championship with the group and were forced to bring a championship team back.

It's poor planning to force your team into 4 consecutive years of escalating luxury taxes. Which is what would happen if you bring both back and extend Simmons. With no guarantee of even a championship appearance, you've just brought 4 years of escalting luxury taxes and a likely hardcap. And with how this team performs without Embiid, you're one injury away from being a hardcapped, 32 win team. If you're still totally dependant on one (1) player for any success, and the other players can't drag you to wins without him, you can't pay all if them max contracts, no matter what the market is for them individually.

Luxury taxes are a concern. However, I think Matisse Thybulle and Marial Shayock were drafted with the expectation they will allow us to trade Tobias. Considering the market for him today, I don't think there's any reason to believe his contract can't be moved in the next three years.

[youngcrev]

If Beverley can't get the 3 for 40 he's looking for, would you feel comfortable giving him 4 for approximately 40 (full MLE)? He'll be 31 in July.

[smittybanton]

After getting absolutely nothing out of TJ, Markelle, Jonathan Simmons, I'm really looking forward to running it back but with a guard off the bench who can make an impact. At least Boban was useful in the series against the Nets. We could bring Boban back, and maybe we can find a really cheap center whose only positive attribute is pick and roll defense. I guess that's Kyle Oquinn. I wonder if the spring buyout market will have guys like Ian Mahinmi or Bismack Biyombo in it?

Moving that direction frees up the MLE for the backup point guard spot. Feel like we really need to lay our hands on Beverly, Satoransky (rfa). Delon Wright (rfa) or Rondo. Darren Collison at worst. Going below that feels treacherous. Anybody feel strongly about Quinn Cook? I was a bit of a hater his first summer league. He's proven me wrong so far.

The Dunc’d on mock off season brought the starters and Scott back, then Seth Curry and Taj Gibson. Similar idea.

i thought about reuniting Jimmy Butler with Taj Gibson and Derrick Rose. If we keep Tobi's buddy Bobi, maybe we get a couple dudes for Jimmy to play cards with? The Thibsters.

*hope i'm wrong about gafford being that guy.

[youngcrev]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Saw these on Sixers reddit. Both of would seem to fit in conjunction. I know some were big on Pelle around here, and I know everyone has been clamoring for Shake.

[LloydFree]

I really feel like Jimmy is living off of reputation as a defender at this point. I was not impressed what so ever with his D. Not saying he’s bad, but the elite shut down guy that he has a reputation for was no where to be seen in my opinion. Not sure if my expectations were too high based on reading what a defensive presence he was, or he’s just made business decisions to ramp down his D at this point in his career.

Philly plays a switching defense, the guy with the ball can choose to get Butler or Simmons switched off him for a more favorable defensive player which makes a huge difference and gives Butler less time against the guy with the ball. I'm used to seeing Butler trying to stick to his man, fighting through picks and making his man work, with Philly, not much of that at all, just take your switch and like it.

Spoiler:

To me, it seemed like he had a number of defensive plays most players don't make.

Watch on YouTube

And there's so much people miss like Butler knowing where to be and blocking out the other team to allow teammates to get rebounds... which contribute to less possessions for the other team.

Watch on YouTube

Even in the playoffs, he made huge defensive plays, AI liked this one...

Watch on YouTube

I get Butler isn't a gifted player like some of the top tier guys, but there are VERY FEW players that seem to make big plays in crunch time, Butler is one of those few players who seem to make those crucial big plays on BOTH sides of the ball. If you want success in the playoffs, these are the type of players you acquire or keep.

Jimmy Butler is a gifted player. That's not the point. He doesn't help maximize Joel Embiid and/or especially Ben Simmons on offense. He actually competes against them for the ball and space on the court. Even if you're of the mind that Jimmy Butler is worth Max salary well into his thirties, there has to be some acknowledgement that those three players cause each other to provide diminished returns on court. The 76ers should be in the business of accentuating Simmons and Embiid, not paying premium prices to put players in that they can't coexist on court.

[AirP.]

Jimmy Butler is a gifted player. That's not the point. He doesn't help maximize Joel Embiid and/or especially Ben Simmons on offense. He actually competes against them for the ball and space on the court. Even if you're of the mind that Jimmy Butler is worth Max salary well into his thirties, there has to be some acknowledgement that those three players cause each other to provide diminished returns on court. The 76ers should be in the business of accentuating Simmons and Embiid, not paying premium prices to put players in that they can't coexist on court.

I think Embiid and Butler are great PLAYOFF type talents. I think Ben Simmons without a jumper is a great regular season talent that will continue to be exposed in the playoffs, Simmons and Embiid's games do not mesh and at some point Philly will have to make a decision between them (unless Simmons develops a GOOD jumper).

The problem is trying to appease both Simmons and Embiid instead of doing what's best for the team. Philly basically was as close as they could be to beating the eventual champs with Bulter and Embiid leading the way and Simmons being utilized as a defensive player. It's quite possible if you just simply replaced Simmons with RoCo(adding outside shooting to the defense although a lesser player), Philly could have gotten by Toronto and possibly won a championship this last season, had Embiid not gotten sick they may have done it anyways with Simmons and his lack of a jumper.

The biggest synergy problem for the 76ers is Ben Simmons lack of a jumper let alone the quality of that jumper and there's no telling that a 60% FT% guy will ever become respectable enough from the outside to not be a liability in the playoffs. Ben's lack of a jumper means without the ball he's been in the dunker's spot or setting picks which Embiid should be doing but instead, Embiid is sent to the 3pt line for spacing, it's just insane to do that with a talented big like Embiid.

I guess the real question is, do you want to have a strong chance at winning a championship for the next half decade or just have a good regular season team (unless Simmons gets a good jumper) for possibly a longer period of time. Without Butler you will not have a closer, you will have 1 less gamechanger in the last 2 minutes of a game. Has not watching Toronto for all these years getting knocked out of the playoffs year after year not told you anything, they sent out a fan favorite and got better as a team by having that difference maker at the end of games and ended up winning a championship.

[Sixerscan]

I really feel like Jimmy is living off of reputation as a defender at this point. I was not impressed what so ever with his D. Not saying he’s bad, but the elite shut down guy that he has a reputation for was no where to be seen in my opinion. Not sure if my expectations were too high based on reading what a defensive presence he was, or he’s just made business decisions to ramp down his D at this point in his career.

Philly plays a switching defense, the guy with the ball can choose to get Butler or Simmons switched off him for a more favorable defensive player which makes a huge difference and gives Butler less time against the guy with the ball. I'm used to seeing Butler trying to stick to his man, fighting through picks and making his man work, with Philly, not much of that at all, just take your switch and like it.

Spoiler:

To me, it seemed like he had a number of defensive plays most players don't make.

Watch on YouTube

And there's so much people miss like Butler knowing where to be and blocking out the other team to allow teammates to get rebounds... which contribute to less possessions for the other team.

Watch on YouTube

Even in the playoffs, he made huge defensive plays, AI liked this one...

Watch on YouTube

I get Butler isn't a gifted player like some of the top tier guys, but there are VERY FEW players that seem to make big plays in crunch time, Butler is one of those few players who seem to make those crucial big plays on BOTH sides of the ball. If you want success in the playoffs, these are the type of players you acquire or keep.

Jimmy Butler is a gifted player. That's not the point. He doesn't help maximize Joel Embiid and/or especially Ben Simmons on offense. He actually competes against them for the ball and space on the court. Even if you're of the mind that Jimmy Butler is worth Max salary well into his thirties, there has to be some acknowledgement that those three players cause each other to provide diminished returns on court. The 76ers should be in the business of accentuating Simmons and Embiid, not paying premium prices to put players in that they can't coexist on court.

I think the returns are only diminished relative to some theoretical scenario that doesn’t exist. You replace Butler with another shooter that’s not like Klay Thompson or someone unrealistic and Simmons’ numbers may be better but the team won’t be nearly as good.

This league is all about collecting top of the line talent. These top guys all have such unique skills that waiting around for the perfect fit just isn’t realistic, and frankly I think it’s pretty overrated.

And really this all comes back to Simmons figuring out the jump shot thing, or it will keep coming up

[Sixerscan]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Saw these on Sixers reddit. Both of would seem to fit in conjunction. I know some were big on Pelle around here, and I know everyone has been clamoring for Shake.

I assume he will get a 4 year deal starting at the minimum that comes out of the MLE, and between part of the rest of the MLE and BAE (what that number is depends on what the starters and Scott get) they’ll get two bench guys (like Curry and Gibson).

At that point you’ll have 11, sign 3 minimum guys, operate with 14 and probably pick up some 2 way guys or a buyout towards the end of the year.

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[GoSixersBro]

Philly plays a switching defense, the guy with the ball can choose to get Butler or Simmons switched off him for a more favorable defensive player which makes a huge difference and gives Butler less time against the guy with the ball. I'm used to seeing Butler trying to stick to his man, fighting through picks and making his man work, with Philly, not much of that at all, just take your switch and like it.

Spoiler:

To me, it seemed like he had a number of defensive plays most players don't make.

Watch on YouTube

And there's so much people miss like Butler knowing where to be and blocking out the other team to allow teammates to get rebounds... which contribute to less possessions for the other team.

Watch on YouTube

Even in the playoffs, he made huge defensive plays, AI liked this one...

Watch on YouTube

I get Butler isn't a gifted player like some of the top tier guys, but there are VERY FEW players that seem to make big plays in crunch time, Butler is one of those few players who seem to make those crucial big plays on BOTH sides of the ball. If you want success in the playoffs, these are the type of players you acquire or keep.

Jimmy Butler is a gifted player. That's not the point. He doesn't help maximize Joel Embiid and/or especially Ben Simmons on offense. He actually competes against them for the ball and space on the court. Even if you're of the mind that Jimmy Butler is worth Max salary well into his thirties, there has to be some acknowledgement that those three players cause each other to provide diminished returns on court. The 76ers should be in the business of accentuating Simmons and Embiid, not paying premium prices to put players in that they can't coexist on court.

I think the returns are only diminished relative to some theoretical scenario that doesn’t exist. You replace Butler with another shooter that’s not like Klay Thompson or someone unrealistic and Simmons’ numbers may be better but the team won’t be nearly as good.

This league is all about collecting top of the line talent. These top guys all have such unique skills that waiting around for the perfect fit just isn’t realistic, and frankly I think it’s pretty overrated.

And really this all comes back to Simmons figuring out the jump shot thing, or it will keep coming up

This so much. I just don't think you can go back and look at every champion team and say all the players perfectly fit with each other on paper. I think the image of "chemistry" we have in our heads is a team of players complimenting each others' games perfectly, but I don't think that's realistically attainable, especially when you have a point guard who is as passive about shooting the ball as Simmons.

Butler's defensive instincts and ability to make a big play, not just on offense, but on defense as well is so valuable. These plays may not always show up on the box score, but he constantly makes them down the stretch and they really can change the outcome.

[cool93]

Read on Twitter

That "IDK but not Philly" sounded waaay worse that if he just named one of the options (Lakers, HOU etc). I would be so depressed if Butler leaves and we max out Harris.