Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[DarkXaero]

Their rankings so far:

This is important, thanks for sharing.

They are fair to Jrue, I think. #25 is about right to him, and if we can add him for only 1 of CLV or Spence, we improve ourselves immensely. It may take Jarrett as well, but we can luck into a high-quality MLE signing at the 5, or just roll with DJ/Nic/KD/Rodi there.

I'm not a fan of giving up Jarrett in addition to Levert or Dinwiddie for Jrue. I think Levert, the Philly pick, and possibly another small positive value asset is very fair value for Jrue. I understand that there will be a lot of competition for Jrue, since every contending team would love to have him, and that's what raises the offer. But I think we do have an edge as Trajan Langdon, who was assistant GM here with Marks, he's the GM for Pelicans, and that should make trade negotiations easier. And yeah, I know that David Griffin ultimately calls the shots, but Langdon is #2 there.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I agree that trading both for him would be disastrous but you're insane if you're taking ONE of them over Jrue in our situation (win now). Jrue is overall easily better than either player, and I say this as someone who values them. Stats indicate that Jrue's impact isn't that of a "role player" at all, its very much all star level impact. Beal, and PG are better but they would also cost a lot more, and are much harder to trade for.

I don't think Holiday would be capable of what Levert did in the bubble offensively. Look at how poorly the Pelicans did if you need proof. And Levert had a far worse supporting cast.

Levert could end up being as good as Holiday, younger and on a better contract.

I would just add defensive pieces through draft/MLE/smaller trade rather than giving up Dinwiddie or Levert. They both have good relationships with KD/Kyrie and really want to be here.

Even if that is true, it still doesn't apply to our situation. We need complementary guys next to KD & Kyrie, not someone who only really excels as the main man on the team. I'm giving up either Dinwiddie or Levert for Jrue, in a heartbeat, Jrue is exactly what we need. But again, this argument has been beaten to death in this thread, and I'm not sure if there's anything else left to be said, since you clearly have a one track mind regarding this.

Lol I don't have a one track mind, I just don't agree with you.

Its a matter of opinion.

I would rather have a young, capable third scorer on a good contract next to KD and Kyrie. You're assuming Levert can't work with those guys without ever seeing it.

Holiday is more expensive , will want a big contract and doesn't fill our biggest need, which is wing defense. In fact, he makes us even smaller when Lakers have overwhelming size.

If I'm the Nets I look to make trades to add some wing defenders while holding on the Dinwiddie + Levert. I look into trading Allen and picks if anything.

[ecuhus1981]

Holiday actually does fill our need for wing defense, at least better than Caris. You see the 3" difference in height, but that is very deceiving. Jrue has defended everyone from Curry to James at a high level, he would be our primary perimeter stopper.

[vincecarter4pres]

Even moving on from Jrue talk, the bottom line is this isn’t baseball or football. You can’t just sign Scrubby McDefense Vet Min the Third and Jayless Lockdowningson and throw them out there and expect to keep pace with other contenders with stacked lineups 1 through 5.

And to be clear, I don’t mean you need a star, or even true stud at every position at all times. But in the playoffs, in tight big games, you cannot have lineups where 2 to 3 of Taureen Prince, MKG and Harkless are out there at the same time and hope to beat teams like the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Nuggets, etc.

[MGrand15]

With SVG on board, I think we can bury the Jrue Holiday talk. That's a win now signing. Jrue helps you win now.

[ProspectPark]

OK yall:

What is Jrue Holiday is shooting on wide open looks from three?

To me, on a roster where we will have elite floor spacing in KD/Kyrie/Harris on the floor at the same time, that's the only metric that matters and there's too much noise in this thread. If he's shooting a good, above average % on those looks, that's what matters.

The NBA describes it as closest defender is within:

2-4 feet = tight
4-6 feet = open
6+ feet = wide open

Jrue Holiday on OPEN shots (No defender within 4-6 feet):

2019-2020 - 32% on 2.5 attempts
2018-2019 - 30.3% on 2.1 attempts
2017-2018 - 31.3% on 1.6 attempts

You’re not getting wide open shots in the playoffs especially in the half court in the last 5 minutes of a close when teams have AD, LeBron, Kawhi, and PG, to guard KD and Kyrie.

Where is everyone getting their data from? All I'm seeing in this thread is conflicting numbers.

This is directly from NBA.com/stats

https://go.nba.com/azdw

^
This is for 2019-2020

You can sort by year in the top left.

What this says is even when Jrue Holiday has 4-6 feet of space (No defender within 4-6 feet) his percentages are abysmal. For the last 3 seasons he shoots in the low 30’s on what the NBA describes as “Open” shots.

There is no agenda. Some people here just get their feelings hurt when their beliefs are destroyed.

[vincecarter4pres]

Levert could certainly make an All Star team, Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons even said he could be an All Star on a pod.

And Holiday hasn't made an All Star team in 7 years. He's not an All Star. Hes just a high level role player.

That bench you just referred to sounds absolutely terrible. I'd rather have Levert + Dinwiddie. Whos our scorer off the bench? Taurean Prince. No thanks.

League has changed. League went small cause of the Warriors. Now the Lakers are dominating with AD.

Honestly, All Star nominations is one of the stupidest arguments available for any player period. It's a popularity contest and then the reserves are chosen because their teams are winning and must have All Stars from winning teams...

Beal missed last year. Seriously? a 30/6/5 guy wasn't an All Star?

Conley never made one.

Rod Strickland, Kukoc, Bibby, Sabonis for Christ sake's!

How many players got snubbed recently to accommodate for teams like the Pacers or the Hawks of 6 to 10 years ago, who were better than the sum of their parts?

Players out west who should have made multiple appearances but forwards were so deep out there.

Again, it's a popularity contest for the most part.

I agree with you in certain cases.

But do you really think Holiday was being snubbed? I certainly don't think he should have been an All Star these past 7 years. He wasn't good enough.

He played with Anthony Davis and they couldn't even make the playoffs consistently.

Hes a very good player. But hes not the type of guy I think its worth investing big money into and giving up our assets for.

If we were to go that route I would hope we could get a true star like George or Beal for example. Even then, I think the three star model is overrated.

I don't know I would say he was out and out "snubbed", at least not all those years, but I also don't keep a mental record of every All Star every year and which certain players I would have subbed out. But I will say he's been playing at an All Star level for many years, he was absolutely good enough.

I'd prefer George or Beal too, but that's easier said then done.

[vincecarter4pres]

The NBA describes it as closest defender is within:

2-4 feet = tight
4-6 feet = open
6+ feet = wide open

Jrue Holiday on OPEN shots (No defender within 4-6 feet):

2019-2020 - 32% on 2.5 attempts
2018-2019 - 30.3% on 2.1 attempts
2017-2018 - 31.3% on 1.6 attempts

You’re not getting wide open shots in the playoffs especially in the half court in the last 5 minutes of a close when teams have AD, LeBron, Kawhi, and PG, to guard KD and Kyrie.

Where is everyone getting their data from? All I'm seeing in this thread is conflicting numbers.

This is directly from NBA.com/stats

https://go.nba.com/azdw

^
This is for 2019-2020

You can sort by year in the top left.

What this says is even when Jrue Holiday has 4-6 feet of space (No defender within 4-6 feet) his percentages are abysmal. For the last 3 seasons he shoots in the low 30’s on what the NBA describes as “Open” shots.

There is no agenda. Some people here just get their feelings hurt when their beliefs are destroyed.

Here's the thing, no one is getting their feelings hurt, but you keep ignoring he shoots high 30's to 40% on 3 attempts a game when he has 6'+ of space and you keep ignoring that as well. And you haven't said boo about the fact he's a better shooter then Dinwiddie.

[vincecarter4pres]

So he's hitting open threes at an excellent clip, and we will be bringing him onto a team that will see plenty of open looks based on the fact that defenses will be pissing their pants over KD and Kyrie. We need threes and defense from our starting SG. Sounds like he's the guy.

I think the solution is clear here. If NO is willing to engage, we should consider it. I vastly disagree on the notion that we will have to pay Jrue max dollars to stay here.

How much did DLo and Kemba just get?

That was pre pandemic. I don't expect anyone to be getting anywhere near what those two got until revenue levels return to normal.

Also, Kemba is better than Jrue, and DLo was being paid on potential/age. I doubt Holiday gets anywhere near north of 20 mil.

Even if he does, who cares?

Ticket prices aren't going to change because of Jrue Holiday.

We aren't going to have cap space if we have Dinwiddie at $18 a year instead of Jrue at $27.

We're still going to be a repeater team and still deep into the tax above the apron.



When you sign role players to huge contracts before you have superstars and stars and depth, that is a big deal. You can bury yourself. But when you have 2 top 10 players, real depth even after trading some away, ring chasers to nab for the MLE, most of your own draft picks and a GM and scouting staff who routinely take advantage of undrafted FA's and G-League, it's not the worst thing in the world to land a stud, but maybe not star in the traditional sense, super expensive vet.


Honestly, my bet if we traded for Jrue, is he'll opt in to his ETO and we'll tack on 2 years somewhere between $24 and $27 million a year flat, the last being an ETO again.

[vincecarter4pres]

With SVG on board, I think we can bury the Jrue Holiday talk. That's a win now signing. Jrue helps you win now.

I thought somewhat similar. But I think SVG is more of a develop Hayes and Zion and keep developing them, kind of signing.

SVG will surely have some say in the roster as well, maybe he happens to love Dinwiddie, or Allen.


But again, would mainly agree with this. This is more likely to hurt the chances he's dealt, then help them.

[vincecarter4pres]

Moving onto other ideas, I still don't mind the idea of something like Dinwiddie and Temple for Terrence Ross and the 15th.

Maybe then you can combine the 15th and 19th, get way up into the thick of the lottery and grab someone like Vassell, Toppin, or Nesmith.

[Prokorov]

Moving onto other ideas, I still don't mind the idea of something like Dinwiddie and Temple for Terrence Ross and the 15th.

Maybe then you can combine the 15th and 19th, get way up into the thick of the lottery and grab someone like Vassell, Toppin, or Nesmith.

i like ross but i dont want to give up temple. ross is clear upgrade, but i want to add to the few defenders we have not just top grade them.

[vincecarter4pres]

Moving onto other ideas, I still don't mind the idea of something like Dinwiddie and Temple for Terrence Ross and the 15th.

Maybe then you can combine the 15th and 19th, get way up into the thick of the lottery and grab someone like Vassell, Toppin, or Nesmith.

i like ross but i dont want to give up temple. ross is clear upgrade, but i want to add to the few defenders we have not just top grade them.

Musa works in that spot too.

[DarkXaero]

With SVG on board, I think we can bury the Jrue Holiday talk. That's a win now signing. Jrue helps you win now.

Not necessarily, SVG took over a lotto team situation in Detroit last time.

[TheNetsFan]

With SVG on board, I think we can bury the Jrue Holiday talk. That's a win now signing. Jrue helps you win now.

Not necessarily, SVG took over a lotto team situation in Detroit last time.

I think SVG's history (as a coach) is more of a build from the ground up & mold your players from young. SVG the PoBO rushed the process and made terrible trades for expensive players.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Even moving on from Jrue talk, the bottom line is this isn’t baseball or football. You can’t just sign Scrubby McDefense Vet Min the Third and Jayless Lockdowningson and throw them out there and expect to keep pace with other contenders with stacked lineups 1 through 5.

And to be clear, I don’t mean you need a star, or even true stud at every position at all times. But in the playoffs, in tight big games, you cannot have lineups where 2 to 3 of Taureen Prince, MKG and Harkless are out there at the same time and hope to beat teams like the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Nuggets, etc.

I mean the Lakers were out there playing Alex Caruso in crunch time.

I don't think the Lakers or any other team right now is stacked. Clippers were the closes but they somehow collapsed.

[MrDollarBills]

Even moving on from Jrue talk, the bottom line is this isn’t baseball or football. You can’t just sign Scrubby McDefense Vet Min the Third and Jayless Lockdowningson and throw them out there and expect to keep pace with other contenders with stacked lineups 1 through 5.

And to be clear, I don’t mean you need a star, or even true stud at every position at all times. But in the playoffs, in tight big games, you cannot have lineups where 2 to 3 of Taureen Prince, MKG and Harkless are out there at the same time and hope to beat teams like the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Nuggets, etc.

Lakers won with two stars and role players in the backcourt and upfront. I don't think we're that far off from that level.

[MrDollarBills]

The NBA describes it as closest defender is within:

2-4 feet = tight
4-6 feet = open
6+ feet = wide open

Jrue Holiday on OPEN shots (No defender within 4-6 feet):

2019-2020 - 32% on 2.5 attempts
2018-2019 - 30.3% on 2.1 attempts
2017-2018 - 31.3% on 1.6 attempts

You’re not getting wide open shots in the playoffs especially in the half court in the last 5 minutes of a close when teams have AD, LeBron, Kawhi, and PG, to guard KD and Kyrie.

Where is everyone getting their data from? All I'm seeing in this thread is conflicting numbers.

This is directly from NBA.com/stats

https://go.nba.com/azdw

^
This is for 2019-2020

You can sort by year in the top left.

What this says is even when Jrue Holiday has 4-6 feet of space (No defender within 4-6 feet) his percentages are abysmal. For the last 3 seasons he shoots in the low 30’s on what the NBA describes as “Open” shots.

There is no agenda. Some people here just get their feelings hurt when their beliefs are destroyed.

Okay, so this link shows me that Jrue is hitting 40% on wide open threes. You have to figure that those will be the kind of shots he'll be getting in an offense where you have KD, Kyrie and Harris on the floor.

[MrDollarBills]

Even moving on from Jrue talk, the bottom line is this isn’t baseball or football. You can’t just sign Scrubby McDefense Vet Min the Third and Jayless Lockdowningson and throw them out there and expect to keep pace with other contenders with stacked lineups 1 through 5.

And to be clear, I don’t mean you need a star, or even true stud at every position at all times. But in the playoffs, in tight big games, you cannot have lineups where 2 to 3 of Taureen Prince, MKG and Harkless are out there at the same time and hope to beat teams like the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Nuggets, etc.

I mean the Lakers were out there playing Alex Caruso in crunch time.

I don't think the Lakers or any other team right now is stacked. Clippers were the closes but they somehow collapsed.

Who is better, Caruso or Dinwiddie? exactly.

the Nets have a deep roster right now. we just need 2 moves at minimum to tighten things up.

[vincecarter4pres]

Even moving on from Jrue talk, the bottom line is this isn’t baseball or football. You can’t just sign Scrubby McDefense Vet Min the Third and Jayless Lockdowningson and throw them out there and expect to keep pace with other contenders with stacked lineups 1 through 5.

And to be clear, I don’t mean you need a star, or even true stud at every position at all times. But in the playoffs, in tight big games, you cannot have lineups where 2 to 3 of Taureen Prince, MKG and Harkless are out there at the same time and hope to beat teams like the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Nuggets, etc.

Lakers won with two stars and role players in the backcourt and upfront. I don't think we're that far off from that level.

Yes, but they were mainly all good defenders, they had 2 stud role players in Rondo and Dwight(these guys rightfully get a lot of hate, but they are still completely capable, above average starter level players), their defenders are capable to good shooters.