2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread part one: The Fellowship for A Ring

[Pillendreher]

Teams like Boston and San Antonio and Houston and Toronto were all making moves with theirs too. What awful general managers they have.

Boston and San Antonio are not going anywhere this season. That is very obvious. Both of them don't have their best player for the rest of the season. Of course they are not hell bent on making a move.

Toronto and Houston both have a +8 NetRtG. That's good for 60 win seasons. Both teams are close to 10 deep. What moves were they supposed to make?

Meanwhile, we lost our best defender and are now trying to replace him with Huestis (a guy who's Semaj Christon level bad on offense and slightly above average defensively), Abrines (his only skill is shooting and we're not getting him shots) and Ferguson (our NetRtG with him on the floor is so bad, it's equal to the Suns' with Booker or the Mavericks' with Smith Jr). While we still don't have a secondary creator off the bench or a backup Center.

If there's a team that HAD to make a move, it's us. Teams who are already very deep not making one does not excuse Presti failing in that regard.

you don't want to tell that gordon hayward is the celtics best player, do you?

I don't think Horford is better than him.

[Reign23]

Boston and San Antonio are not going anywhere this season. That is very obvious. Both of them don't have their best player for the rest of the season. Of course they are not hell bent on making a move.

Toronto and Houston both have a +8 NetRtG. That's good for 60 win seasons. Both teams are close to 10 deep. What moves were they supposed to make?

Meanwhile, we lost our best defender and are now trying to replace him with Huestis (a guy who's Semaj Christon level bad on offense and slightly above average defensively), Abrines (his only skill is shooting and we're not getting him shots) and Ferguson (our NetRtG with him on the floor is so bad, it's equal to the Suns' with Booker or the Mavericks' with Smith Jr). While we still don't have a secondary creator off the bench or a backup Center.

If there's a team that HAD to make a move, it's us. Teams who are already very deep not making one does not excuse Presti failing in that regard.

you don't want to tell that gordon hayward is the celtics best player, do you?

I don't think Horford is better than him.

and that point guard they have

[Pillendreher]

you don't want to tell that gordon hayward is the celtics best player, do you?

I don't think Horford is better than him.

and that point guard they have

I don't like Rozier as much as Boston fans. Seems quite streaky.

[Reign23]

I don't think Horford is better than him.

and that point guard they have

I don't like Rozier as much as Boston fans. Seems quite streaky.

man... I was obv talking about smart !

[Pillendreher]

Interesting lineup "development": Westbrook-Huestis-George-Anthony-Adams is now at +19.7 NetRtG on the season. Compared to the Roberson starters [Roberson|Huestis (Rank among 5 man lineups with at least 90 mp)]:

ORtG: 110.1 (38/105) | 124.1 (2/105)
DRtG: 95.9 (14/105) | 104.4 (47/105)
NetRtG: +14.2 (13/105) | +19.7(6/105)

ORB%: 33.4 % (4/105) | 37.6 % (1/105)
DRB%: 81.4 % (30/105) | 70.1 % (100/105)

eFG%: 53.0 % (53/105) | 56.6 % (23/105)
FTr: 0.236 (45/105) | 0.254 (41/105)
TOV%: 15.0 (70/105) | 11.05 (10/105)

opp eFG%: 51.6 % (46/105) | 50.6 % (35/105)
opp FTr: 0.187 (40/105) | 0.170 (25/105)
opp TOV%: 19.2 (2/105) | 16.4 (13/105)

Should be taken with a huge grant of salt tho: The Huestis lineup has just played 32 minutes over 5 games since Robes went down. +32 NetRtG. +12 NetRtgG with much worse defense (111 DRtG) in the 60 something minutes before the Roberson injury.

[bondom34]

Teams like Boston and San Antonio and Houston and Toronto were all making moves with theirs too. What awful general managers they have.

Boston and San Antonio are not going anywhere this season. That is very obvious. Both of them don't have their best player for the rest of the season. Of course they are not hell bent on making a move.

Toronto and Houston both have a +8 NetRtG. That's good for 60 win seasons. Both teams are close to 10 deep. What moves were they supposed to make?

Meanwhile, we lost our best defender and are now trying to replace him with Huestis (a guy who's Semaj Christon level bad on offense and slightly above average defensively), Abrines (his only skill is shooting and we're not getting him shots) and Ferguson (our NetRtG with him on the floor is so bad, it's equal to the Suns' with Booker or the Mavericks' with Smith Jr). While we still don't have a secondary creator off the bench or a backup Center.

If there's a team that HAD to make a move, it's us. Teams who are already very deep not making one does not excuse Presti failing in that regard.

This team's ceiling when healthy was the same as theirs.

[Reign23]

If I'm BD I would look for this playoff rotation:

Russ 40
X 20 (one of Abrines/Huestis/Ferg/Buyout)
PG 40
Melo 33
Adams 33

Felton 22, Grant 26, Patterson 26

[Pillendreher]

Teams like Boston and San Antonio and Houston and Toronto were all making moves with theirs too. What awful general managers they have.

Boston and San Antonio are not going anywhere this season. That is very obvious. Both of them don't have their best player for the rest of the season. Of course they are not hell bent on making a move.

Toronto and Houston both have a +8 NetRtG. That's good for 60 win seasons. Both teams are close to 10 deep. What moves were they supposed to make?

Meanwhile, we lost our best defender and are now trying to replace him with Huestis (a guy who's Semaj Christon level bad on offense and slightly above average defensively), Abrines (his only skill is shooting and we're not getting him shots) and Ferguson (our NetRtG with him on the floor is so bad, it's equal to the Suns' with Booker or the Mavericks' with Smith Jr). While we still don't have a secondary creator off the bench or a backup Center.

If there's a team that HAD to make a move, it's us. Teams who are already very deep not making one does not excuse Presti failing in that regard.

This team's ceiling when healthy was the same as theirs.

First off, you're conveniently ignoring that other teams have had (way) more injury problems than us. This is from a month ago:

Read on Twitter

And since then the only injury loss was Robes and those couple of games for Russ and Melo.

The Rockets have played 58 games so far. Harden has missed 7, Paul has missed 18, LRMAM has missed 18, Ariza has missed 13, Gordon has missed 7. And YET they have the 2nd best NetRtG and the best SRS in the league. The Celtics haven't had Hayward for the whole season and have a better SRS than us. The Spurs haven't had Leonard for the whole season and are right there with us in SRS.
You can't claim health as this all-explaining factor for our disappointing play when multiple teams have had even worse injury luck than us. Imagine George or Westbrook missing the whole season. imagine Adams missing multiple weeks. We'd have no chance whatsoever making the Playoffs.

Secondly, this 'ceiling' talk is based on a 6 week stretch from December to January. The starters played very well at +28 NetRtG over those 6 weeks, but we're still talking about just 1/4 of the season with the starters playing in 10 games.

Thirdly, at no point of this season was this team really close to what the Raptors, Warriors and Rockets are doing on a nightly basis. The team's NetRtG in the 39 games Roberson played was +4.7. That's good for 54 wins. We were below .500 over the first 29 games. Then had a strong 20 game stretch to push us to 9 games over .500. And since the Roberson injury, we've had more losses than wins yet again.

Fourthly, even if what you are saying were true, that just proves how badly we needed a move (or shall I say multiple) all season long. When all it takes is one injury to a good player to turn us into a ~.500 team (+0.1 NetRtG in those 21 games Roberson didn't play), it is so very obvious that the roster needs more than we currently have.

[bondom34]

Boston and San Antonio are not going anywhere this season. That is very obvious. Both of them don't have their best player for the rest of the season. Of course they are not hell bent on making a move.

Toronto and Houston both have a +8 NetRtG. That's good for 60 win seasons. Both teams are close to 10 deep. What moves were they supposed to make?

Meanwhile, we lost our best defender and are now trying to replace him with Huestis (a guy who's Semaj Christon level bad on offense and slightly above average defensively), Abrines (his only skill is shooting and we're not getting him shots) and Ferguson (our NetRtG with him on the floor is so bad, it's equal to the Suns' with Booker or the Mavericks' with Smith Jr). While we still don't have a secondary creator off the bench or a backup Center.

If there's a team that HAD to make a move, it's us. Teams who are already very deep not making one does not excuse Presti failing in that regard.

This team's ceiling when healthy was the same as theirs.

First off, you're conveniently ignoring that other teams have had (way) more injury problems than us. This is from a month ago:

Read on Twitter

And since then the only injury loss was Robes and those couple of games for Russ and Melo.

The Rockets have played 58 games so far. Harden has missed 7, Paul has missed 18, LRMAM has missed 18, Ariza has missed 13, Gordon has missed 7. And YET they have the 2nd best NetRtG and the best SRS in the league. The Celtics haven't had Hayward for the whole season and have a better SRS than us. The Spurs haven't had Leonard for the whole season and are right there with us in SRS.
You can't claim health as this all-explaining factor for our disappointing play when multiple teams have had even worse injury luck than us. Imagine George or Westbrook missing the whole season. imagine Adams missing multiple weeks. We'd have no chance whatsoever making the Playoffs.

Secondly, this 'ceiling' talk is based on a 6 week stretch from December to January. The starters played very well at +28 NetRtG over those 6 weeks, but we're still talking about just 1/4 of the season with the starters playing in 10 games.

Thirdly, at no point of this season was this team really close to what the Raptors, Warriors and Rockets are doing on a nightly basis. The team's NetRtG in the 39 games Roberson played was +4.7. That's good for 54 wins. We were below .500 over the first 29 games. Then had a strong 20 game stretch to push us to 9 games over .500. And since the Roberson injury, we've had more losses than wins yet again.

Fourthly, even if what you are saying were true, that just proves how badly we needed a move (or shall I say multiple) all season long. When all it takes is one injury to a good player to turn us into a ~.500 team (+0.1 NetRtG in those 21 games Roberson didn't play), it is so very obvious that the roster needs more than we currently have.

1. I didn't?

2. Yes, that's the definition of a ceiilng. Your best case.

3. No, it wasn't. But none of those teams are winning a title. And you mentioned Boston and I did the Spurs who iirc they're still ahead of in SRS.

4. So again, those teams needed moves.

And most important 5. Everyone sat here whining they didn't have assets to get anyone. Then is shocked when they don't get anyone. Its a kid w/o any money going to the candy store and being sad his mom didn't buy him everything he wanted.

[slick_watts]

And most important 5. Everyone sat here whining they didn't have assets to get anyone. Then is shocked when they don't get anyone. Its a kid w/o any money going to the candy store and being sad his mom didn't buy him everything he wanted.

you hate this team. you comment that you stop watching the games to avoid disappointment. why is this kind of emotional behavior right for you but wrong for everyone else.

[Pillendreher]

1. I didn't?

You compared us to the Rockets and Raptors and argued that since they didn't make a move, Presti not doing anything should not be considered bad business either. Upon me arguing that you can't compare us to those teams because they have been much better overall, you cited health. That was your counter.

2. Yes, that's the definition of a ceiilng. Your best case.

And yet you need a bigger sample size to actually take anything meaningful away from stretches like that. A 'ceiling argument' loses some of its merit when the stretch you're using is a huge outlier compared to the rest of the season.

3. No, it wasn't. But none of those teams are winning a title. And you mentioned Boston and I did the Spurs who iirc they're still ahead of in SRS.

'None of those teams are winning a title' is not something that justifies the lack of roster moves this season. This is about keeping Paul George. Even if winning is a long shot, you can't just 'stay pat' because of that.

4. So again, those teams needed moves.

What teams? We were the one with the holes in the roster, not the teams ahead of us.

And most important 5. Everyone sat here whining they didn't have assets to get anyone. Then is shocked when they don't get anyone. Its a kid w/o any money going to the candy store and being sad his mom didn't buy him everything he wanted.

First of all, nobody was saying that we didn't have any assets. They were complaining that Presit wasted picks on trash players and now we were left without any picks apart from a couple of second rounders.
Furthermore, nobody was saying that we had to go after Hood or another one of those 'high profile' gets. NBA level players would have improved this roster just fine. To this day, we don't have anybody who could come in for Adams when he's in foul trouble and just provide solid Center play. Nothing fancy. Just playing some defense, getting rebounds, setting picks. That's it.
We also don't have anybody who can't get to the rim regularly besides Russ (and George to some extent). That's not some long forgotten and incredibly sought after art. Hell, even Dion Waiters would give us a huge boost in that regard.

It's not just about improving positions. it's about getting something we currently don't have. And when it comes to that, you don't need flashy names. Even G-League players might do. Two-way-players. Free agents. Somebody who is willing to play a certain role and won't do stuff he can't. Other teams have been able to find those guys. Yet here we are, 60 games into the season, without the help we need.

[slick_watts]

how bad is josh huestis offensively? dude has < 10% usage and still struggling to stay above 40% TS. that's wild.

< 10% usage is rare for rotation players in the nba to begin with. only 226 seasons of < 10% have more than 500 minutes played in nba history.

of those 226 seasons, huestis' current 40.3% TS would rank 215. just ahead of 37 year old ben wallace and sandwiched in between some manute bol seasons.

[bondom34]

And most important 5. Everyone sat here whining they didn't have assets to get anyone. Then is shocked when they don't get anyone. Its a kid w/o any money going to the candy store and being sad his mom didn't buy him everything he wanted.

you hate this team. you comment that you stop watching the games to avoid disappointment. why is this kind of emotional behavior right for you but wrong for everyone else.

I never said it was wrong.

And you all don't have to watch if you don't want disappointment either, I have to actually go well out of my normal way to watch them on TV.

1. I didn't?

You compared us to the Rockets and Raptors and argued that since they didn't make a move, Presti not doing anything should not be considered bad business either. Upon me arguing that you can't compare us to those teams because they have been much better overall, you cited health. That was your counter.

2. Yes, that's the definition of a ceiilng. Your best case.

And yet you need a bigger sample size to actually take anything meaningful away from stretches like that. A 'ceiling argument' loses some of its merit when the stretch you're using is a huge outlier compared to the rest of the season.

3. No, it wasn't. But none of those teams are winning a title. And you mentioned Boston and I did the Spurs who iirc they're still ahead of in SRS.

'None of those teams are winning a title' is not something that justifies the lack of roster moves this season. This is about keeping Paul George. Even if winning is a long shot, you can't just 'stay pat' because of that.

4. So again, those teams needed moves.

What teams? We were the one with the holes in the roster, not the teams ahead of us.

And most important 5. Everyone sat here whining they didn't have assets to get anyone. Then is shocked when they don't get anyone. Its a kid w/o any money going to the candy store and being sad his mom didn't buy him everything he wanted.

First of all, nobody was saying that we didn't have any assets. They were complaining that Presit wasted picks on trash players and now we were left without any picks apart from a couple of second rounders.
Furthermore, nobody was saying that we had to go after Hood or another one of those 'high profile' gets. NBA level players would have improved this roster just fine. To this day, we don't have anybody who could come in for Adams when he's in foul trouble and just provide solid Center play. Nothing fancy. Just playing some defense, getting rebounds, setting picks. That's it.
We also don't have anybody who can't get to the rim regularly besides Russ (and George to some extent). That's not some long forgotten and incredibly sought after art. Hell, even Dion Waiters would give us a huge boost in that regard.

It's not just about improving positions. it's about getting something we currently don't have. And when it comes to that, you don't need flashy names. Even G-League players might do. Two-way-players. Free agents. Somebody who is willing to play a certain role and won't do stuff he can't. Other teams have been able to find those guys. Yet here we are, 60 games into the season, without the help we need.

1. Also Boston, who I'd say has a higher ceiling due to conference.
2. Eastern conference.
3. Sure, and nothing they were doing was having an effect on PG.
4. The ones I listed.
5.
Huh? No picks and nothing but Abrines to offer is a lack of assets.

[Atomic Punk]

And most important 5. Everyone sat here whining they didn't have assets to get anyone. Then is shocked when they don't get anyone. Its a kid w/o any money going to the candy store and being sad his mom didn't buy him everything he wanted.

you hate this team. you comment that you stop watching the games to avoid disappointment. why is this kind of emotional behavior right for you but wrong for everyone else.

Actually slick, based on the incessant bitching and complaining that we constantly hear from people like you and Pillendreher I would say that you guys are the ones that hate the team. Or at least you hate the players, coach, and front office. And you know what? That’s fine. Everyone responds in different ways to these types of scenarios. My wife and I had a favorite restaurant. Then management changed and the quality of the food and service went down. My wife stoped going. I still go with some of my friends because I like the atmosphere and experience more than I care about the quality of the food and service. Which one of us is right here? We both are, relative to what we value individually.

[Kizz Fastfists]

My wife and I had a favorite restaurant. Then management changed and the quality of the food and service went down. My wife stoped going. I still go with some of my friends because I like the atmosphere and experience more than I care about the quality of the food and service. Which one of us is right here?

Your wife is right. You go to a restaurant for the food.

[Atomic Punk]

My wife and I had a favorite restaurant. Then management changed and the quality of the food and service went down. My wife stoped going. I still go with some of my friends because I like the atmosphere and experience more than I care about the quality of the food and service. Which one of us is right here?

Your wife is right. You go to a restaurant for the food.

As far as she is concerned, yes. But for me (and others) it is about the sum total of the experience, not just the individual pieces. It is the same for any form of entertainment or consumer experience.

[Kizz Fastfists]

As far as she is concerned, yes. But for me (and others) it is about the sum total of the experience, not just the individual pieces. It is the same for any form of entertainment or consumer experience.

You are casting your dollar vote for bad food and making the entire community suffer because you are allowing other restaurants to lower their standards while still staying ahead of their inferior competition. It's not just poor judgement on your part in choosing what you admit to be inferior food, but you are hurting everyone who goes out to eat. It is like drunk driving. The idiot driving drunk isn't the only one that suffers from their bad decision making. Our choices have micro and macro consequences.

[slick_watts]

Actually slick, based on the incessant bitching and complaining that we constantly hear from people like you and Pillendreher I would say that you guys are the ones that hate the team.

i enjoy basketball. the thunder are my team. i don't hate the team. it doesn't bother me that bondom34 hates the team.

[Atomic Punk]

As far as she is concerned, yes. But for me (and others) it is about the sum total of the experience, not just the individual pieces. It is the same for any form of entertainment or consumer experience.

You are casting your dollar vote for bad food and making the entire community suffer because you are allowing other restaurants to lower their standards while still staying ahead of their inferior competition. It's not just poor judgement on your part in choosing what you admit to be inferior food, but you are hurting everyone who goes out to eat. It is like drunk driving. The idiot driving drunk isn't the only one that suffers from their bad decision making. Our choices have micro and macro consequences.

Are you seriously equating drunk driving to choosing to eat at a restaurant that may serve (subjectively) inferior food? Wow. Let me ask you this; you have openly called for this team to tank, right? You are constantly criticizing them, right? Why the hell do you pay any attention at all then? Why bother? If we were to apply your “logic” here, you should only be a fan of front runner teams. To follow or support an “inferior” product would be bad for the entire community.

Pick another argument dude, yours does not apply here.

[bondom34]

Actually slick, based on the incessant bitching and complaining that we constantly hear from people like you and Pillendreher I would say that you guys are the ones that hate the team.

i enjoy basketball. the thunder are my team. i don't hate the team. it doesn't bother me that bondom34 hates the team.

Lol they're my team too. Your hatred self importance and blame casting doesn't change it.