Shaq/Wade vs. TD/Kobe

[LascelleL]

There was no feuding in 05/06. Shaq was no longer his dominant self and was injured in 07 and played less then half the season and never played for the Heat again after that. So, for the two years Wade had a healthy Shaq there was no feuding, they got along perfectly, and they made it to the Finals twice taking home the chip in 06.

If Wade had a Young or Prime Shaq like Kobe had they wouldn't have had to tank in 07 and would have continued contending for Rings for years to come. Nice try though, do some research before you make an argument next time please.

Im convinced you're DreamShakeFTW's ALT troll account......You do more Harm then good to Shaq with your arguments

[shawngoat23]

I'll go with Duncan and Kobe.

I think you can argue that Shaq and Wade are more talented (close either way, probably in their favor if we're talking peak ability), but I feel much better about Duncan and Kobe's ability to mesh on the court, as well as having fewer concerns about their durability.

[yongaz]

Personally, I'd rather have Kobe from the last 3 years on my team than any version of Lebron. Lebron just doesn't have the "IT" that Kobe does. Neither did AI, TMac, or VC. Wade does, and we'll see much of it he has now that he has some help.

I think Shaq could have handled everything differently. I believe that he made an effort to reach out, but Kobe wasn't very receptive. A lot of the things that Shaq said were uncalled for. But I always point to the fact that they were said or done in response to something that he didn't agree with. I think they both are idiots for their respective roles in the breakup, because they could have retired as the best 1-2 punch in history.

I remember being pissed at Shaq for leaving the Magic. I'd grown to love that team. I was pretty pissed when he was traded to Miami also. But I'm glad I got to watch him in the finals half the time he was in LA. I just wish he could have accepted a smaller role in LA to allow Kobe to become the man (and I think that is where Phil deserves blame- he kept Shaq as the 1st option knowing Kobe was itching to step up. He could have eased Kobe along thru his coaching, but he didn't).

Anyhow, it's been real cool discussing this matter in a civil manner with a TRUE LA and Kobe fan. Thanks for the insight. It's been a pleasure, and Merry Christmas to all you guys. I'm outa here!

Fair enough, I respect how you see things. I also appreciate the amount of thought you put into your posts. Have a good holiday.

+1 to both you and jaypo.

Jaypo - much respect... sure you have your bias, as have I and all Laker fans, but I believe that it's ok to have a bias but still be able to be subjective about something. That's what makes a discussion interesting as we see opinions from different points of view.

Speaking of interesting, looks like my favorite poster just got waived!

[LascelleL]

Personally, I'd rather have Kobe from the last 3 years on my team than any version of Lebron. Lebron just doesn't have the "IT" that Kobe does. Neither did AI, TMac, or VC. Wade does, and we'll see much of it he has now that he has some help.

I think Shaq could have handled everything differently. I believe that he made an effort to reach out, but Kobe wasn't very receptive. A lot of the things that Shaq said were uncalled for. But I always point to the fact that they were said or done in response to something that he didn't agree with. I think they both are idiots for their respective roles in the breakup, because they could have retired as the best 1-2 punch in history.

I remember being pissed at Shaq for leaving the Magic. I'd grown to love that team. I was pretty pissed when he was traded to Miami also. But I'm glad I got to watch him in the finals half the time he was in LA. I just wish he could have accepted a smaller role in LA to allow Kobe to become the man (and I think that is where Phil deserves blame- he kept Shaq as the 1st option knowing Kobe was itching to step up. He could have eased Kobe along thru his coaching, but he didn't).

Anyhow, it's been real cool discussing this matter in a civil manner with a TRUE LA and Kobe fan. Thanks for the insight. It's been a pleasure, and Merry Christmas to all you guys. I'm outa here!

Fair enough, I respect how you see things. I also appreciate the amount of thought you put into your posts. Have a good holiday.

+1 to both you and jaypo.

Jaypo - much respect... sure you have your bias, as have I and all Laker fans, but I believe that it's ok to have a bias but still be able to be subjective about something. That's what makes a discussion interesting as we see opinions from different points of view.

Speaking of interesting, looks like my favorite poster just got waived!

These guys just saved the thread

[jaypo]

I just watched the officials hose the Celts, but I'm happy that Shaq was able to hold his own against Howard in limited minutes. I think in a series and with all personnel back, they'll be fine.

I also watched the cHeat bet LA in LA. The Heat's defense impressed me. They got their crap together from the last time I watched.

Merry Christmas to everybody here! I'm going to enjoy some of the wonderful presents that I got, and I hope you guys had as good of a Christmas as I did!

[nolunch]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxgl6ROVn5A&feature=related[/youtube]

[excision]

kobe duncan for me. wade and shaq are great players but it just seems that no matter where shaq is there always seem to be problems. he just about bad mouths every organization he has been with. it's like my dad used to say if you have a problem everywhere you go,then it's you. plus for all of shaq's mde duncan was right there with him in production especially when they went head to head. shaq in his younger days could not really deal with a player approaching his level long term. it happened with penny,kobe,and wade. he always found something to bitch about. wade would have to swallow so much to play with shaq,and after a while it get's old especially with shaq pulling alot of the stunts he has pulled.

True, but Wade is willing to play with Lebron so I think it shows his ability to put up with antics

[jaypo]

I agree. I find that Wade seemed to grasp the concept of winning regardless of pecking order earlier in his career than Kobe did. In Kobe's defense, when you work hardere than anyone and KNOW that you have the chance to be the best ever, you don't think that anyone should be ahead of you. And Shaq had already been the best in the league for years, so he felt that he should remain at the top until he couldn't dominate anymore. And neither was willing to back down on their stance. Wade actually WANTED to get Lebron and Bosh there. And since they figured things out, they went on a tear.

I don't think Wade would have any problem playing with a prime Shaq. As a matter of fact, I think they would both embrace it and do very well.

[Quincy]

Yeah, that's what alot of people misunderstand about Wade. I'm willing to bet he doesn't care who "The Man" or leader is on the Heat. He was just glad to get LeBron, Bosh, and company. He's already got his trophy and Finals MVP. He's had his MVP caliber season already.

His team sucked. Not it has been transformed into a possible dynasty like nothing before. He couldn't be happier methinks.

[jaypo]

I remember watching Wade in his rookie year against the Hornets in the playoffs and thinking that he would turn out to be a special player. Then I remember when I read that Shaq was traded to the Heat, and a huge smile came across my face! Turns out I was right. I was pretty pissed at the way it went down with the Lakers, but I was happy he ended up with the Heat. And looking back, even a past prime Shaq and 3rd year Wade were able to get a title (and missed another because of Wade's rib), I think that a prime Shaq and Wade would do quite well.

[Quincy]

No question they'd do well. Better than Duncan/Kobe though? Not too many duos are a better fit than that.

[LascelleL]

I remember watching Wade in his rookie year against the Hornets in the playoffs and thinking that he would turn out to be a special player. Then I remember when I read that Shaq was traded to the Heat, and a huge smile came across my face! Turns out I was right. I was pretty pissed at the way it went down with the Lakers, but I was happy he ended up with the Heat. And looking back, even a past prime Shaq and 3rd year Wade were able to get a title (and missed another because of Wade's rib), I think that a prime Shaq and Wade would do quite well.

My thoughts exactly...I was so mad when Wade went down with that injury.

[JordansBulls]

I'll go with Duncan and Kobe.

I think you can argue that Shaq and Wade are more talented (close either way, probably in their favor if we're talking peak ability), but I feel much better about Duncan and Kobe's ability to mesh on the court, as well as having fewer concerns about their durability.

+1

[finsguy939]

You've heard wrong then, or heard from the countless Kobe fans who try their hardest to revise history.

I never said Shaq wasn't a significant reason for the breakup, but I followed it closely when it happened and the main reason it got to that point was because of Kobe's massive ego and failure to understand his position on the team and do what was best for the team and not for himself.

I don't know why you keep talking about Kobe, yes I know he was one of the best guards in the league but the fact still remains that 99-05 Shaq was a far better and more valuable player and the team played much better and won when they ran the offensive through Shaq directly with Kobe playing a Pippen type role. You saw what happened in 04 when Kobe let his Ego ruin LA's chance at winning a title by hogging the ball taking far more shots then anyone else on the team while shooting 36% from the field.

yeah you still didn't address the fact that shaq is a poor leader. you compare him to jordan and say he's a goat candidate but there is a reason he's nowhere near jordan magic bird on the all time lists or at least won surpass them he wasn't a great leader of men he didn't have great work ethic he didn't add things to his game he didn't evolve i don't know how you can argue for a guy who wasn't as good as he could of been and it WAS HIS FAULT he got fat he didn't accept HIS 2nd fiddle role until it was too late and he may of made life easier for other stars(no crap thats what stars do for one another) but he really didn't make them better basketball players and a GOAT candidate should lead players and literally make them better and as lazy and injury prone he's been the 2nd half of his career i don;'t think he's above saying i'm not gonna d up and rebound unless i get my touches

Punctuation would go a long way toward making this post readable.

[Quincy]

What does talent have to with anything? Vince Carter has all the talent in the world. Intelligence, drive, and skills are more important than talent.

[jaypo]

I remember watching Wade in his rookie year against the Hornets in the playoffs and thinking that he would turn out to be a special player. Then I remember when I read that Shaq was traded to the Heat, and a huge smile came across my face! Turns out I was right. I was pretty pissed at the way it went down with the Lakers, but I was happy he ended up with the Heat. And looking back, even a past prime Shaq and 3rd year Wade were able to get a title (and missed another because of Wade's rib), I think that a prime Shaq and Wade would do quite well.

My thoughts exactly...I was so mad when Wade went down with that injury.

Imagine this scenario. In 05, Shaq had an MVP season (and was robbed). He and Wade fit perfectly, and even though Shaq was on the downside of his prime, he still put up great numbers. They made it to the ECF and were up 3-2. Then Wade goes down with an injury and was out. They lost the series. Imagine if Wade hadn't gone out with an injury. They would have beatent the Pistons, one of the greatest defensive teams this decade. They would have met the Spurs in the finals. The Spurs had no answer for Shaq or Wade. Bowen couldn't stay in front of Wade, and NOBODY could keep Shaq from putting up 20 ppg. They could have won Shaq's 4th title that year, and they DID win the title in 06. Shaq would have 5. Duncan would have 3. How would the NBA landscape have changed if not for 1 rib injury???

[Rapcity_11]

I remember watching Wade in his rookie year against the Hornets in the playoffs and thinking that he would turn out to be a special player. Then I remember when I read that Shaq was traded to the Heat, and a huge smile came across my face! Turns out I was right. I was pretty pissed at the way it went down with the Lakers, but I was happy he ended up with the Heat. And looking back, even a past prime Shaq and 3rd year Wade were able to get a title (and missed another because of Wade's rib), I think that a prime Shaq and Wade would do quite well.

My thoughts exactly...I was so mad when Wade went down with that injury.

Imagine this scenario. In 05, Shaq had an MVP season (and was robbed). He and Wade fit perfectly, and even though Shaq was on the downside of his prime, he still put up great numbers. They made it to the ECF and were up 3-2. Then Wade goes down with an injury and was out. They lost the series. Imagine if Wade hadn't gone out with an injury. They would have beatent the Pistons, one of the greatest defensive teams this decade. They would have met the Spurs in the finals. The Spurs had no answer for Shaq or Wade. Bowen couldn't stay in front of Wade, and NOBODY could keep Shaq from putting up 20 ppg. They could have won Shaq's 4th title that year, and they DID win the title in 06. Shaq would have 5. Duncan would have 3. How would the NBA landscape have changed if not for 1 rib injury???

How many times does it need to be proven to you that Shaq was not robbed of the MVP? It was a very weak year for MVP and yeah, Shaq had a case but not a very good one at that.

The Heat were far from a guarantee to win the title in 05. Don't make it seem like they were a lock.

[MMyhre]

Since I fear for Kobe going 6-24 in a potential game 7 I must choose D-Wade and The Shaqtus, 2 dominant playoff performers. Man that game 7 really killed Kobe for me, I wanna see D-Wade in a potential finals this year to see if he still kills in the finals. If so this choice becomes so much easier...

[magic1fan]

so him going 6-24 kills everything else he has done?

[USA]

Kind of like how Shaq went 4/11 for 9 points in the deciding game 6 against the Mavs. It totally washes away the fact that they won the game doing the other things needed to win. Shooting % isn't the end all be all.