Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two...

[theboomking]

Any thoughts on Jan Vesely? We might need to take a closer look at him as more players drop out of this draft. He looks good at catching alley-oops...that's all I got so far

Good news for our lotto tank. Wall has been suspended for one of our two winnable games against the Cavs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6278554

And in other news, I like Vesely if he can play the 3, but not as a 4. He has incredible length and athleticism for the 3 spot. I also think that he looks to have a very fiery personality, which is something we could use more of on the court. Vesely isn't a great shooter though, and hits something on the order of 57% from the FT line. That has to get better.

BTW, I am liking Barnes more and more. I don't think he will declare, but if he does, we need to look at him. We could use more guys that can't stand to lose, and cry after a loss.

The North Carolina freshman forward said after losing 76-69 to Kentucky on Sunday in the Elite Eight that he felt just like he did three years ago.

“That hurt for three months,” his mom, Shirley Barnes, said on Tuesday. “And that was the last time he lost. He has goals and I think he wants to fulfill those goals.”

Harrison Barnes, who has yet to decide whether to forgo his remaining three years of collegiate eligibility and enter the NBA Draft, said Sunday it was sad the Tar Heels did not reach their full potential.

“We could have gone so much further and done so many better things, and just to end the season the way that we did, that’s what hurts the most,” he said.

Barnes sobbed with his head draped with a white towel in the Prudential Center locker room Sunday. He raised his head to speak with the media with watered eyes and a softer-than-normal voice.

When asked if he had played his final game in a North Carolina uniform, Barnes gave no indication which way he was leaning, only that he was living in the moment that visibly consumed him.

“I’m not thinking about the NBA,” he said.

Shirley Barnes said when the time is right, her son will make his decision.

“Harrison needs to heal from this loss,” she said. “We haven’t really talked about it, honestly. It’s not pressing to us. It’s what it is.”

Barnes can declare for the draft as late as April 24, which is the deadline for all underclassmen to apply early.

http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.php/a ... mment13301

A strong work ethic has always been a core characteristic for Barnes.

As a freshman, Barnes missed several free throws late that contributed to a loss on the road to West Des Moines Dowling. Bothered by the outcome, the then-14-year-old immediately left the locker room after the postgame speech and shot free throws until the bus was ready to leave.

Onlookers tried to talk to Barnes, but he ignored the distractions and kept shooting.

"I was just trying to get better," Barnes said. "Things that most irritate me when I lose a game, or even if I have a good game, is missing free throws and playing bad defense. Especially when you miss a lot and you lose the game, that just sticks with me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiti ... id=4900463

[hands11]

Thanks CCJ - I've lurked quietly for a long time and have decided to finally take the plunge.

Give out your grungy bar shoes from college.

[Severn Hoos]

I thought this was interesting:

Unranked to Unstoppable: Derrick Williams is becoming a household name. He has been the talk of the NCAA Tournament after single-handedly beating Duke and advancing the Arizona Wildcats to the Elite Eight. He is arguably the best player in the nation and could be the top overall pick in this year's draft if he decides to leave school.

But two years ago, that would have seemed impossible.

That's because Williams was the epitome of a late bloomer. Entering his freshman year at La Mirada High, he was only 5-foot-9. Even as he grew and expanded his game, he wasn't receiving much interest from colleges.

Mid-majors such as Santa Clara and Nevada were expressing the most interest, and it appeared Williams wouldn't be able to attract interest from a top program. It wasn't until he started shining during matchups against top prospects college coaches noticed him. Coaches would come to see an opponent, such as DeMar DeRozan, and leave the game praising Williams.

However, not everyone jumped on the bandwagon. When he graduated from high school, he was still considered a three-star recruit and expectations weren't high for him at Arizona. He wasn't a McDonald's All-American and his face never graced the cover a magazine. In fact, he wasn't even ranked one of the top 150 players in the class by Scout.com. Many analysts wondered if Arizona would redshirt Williams because they weren't sure if he would be able to contribute right away. One year later, he was the face of the program, featured on billboards, benches and banners around Tucson to help ticket sales.

Because Williams developed into a dominant player so late in high school, he slipped through the cracks and he didn't receive the respect he deserved. This only motivated Williams to work harder and perform at a higher level than every player ranked above him. It didn't take long for his peers to realize that Williams was a man on a mission.

"He's extremely passionate and intense," said one forward who attended multiple camps with Williams. "He'll scream, pound his chest and seem like some mean guy, but then he's oddly nice after the game. It kind of surprises you at first, but he's actually the nicest guy on the court."

Because of his rise to stardom, he's one of the most humble players in the country. He's approachable and friendly, which has made him even more of a fan favorite than his impressive highlight reels. Williams is still shocked when people from other states recognize him, and he recently tweeted he didn't turn down a single autograph request while in Tulsa for his coming out party.

It's safe to say that Williams will be receiving more requests than ever now that he's had the opportunity to introduce himself to the world. It's about time.

Hmmm....

Overlooked recruit. Went to Arizona. Low expectations. Set out to prove the doubters wrong. Blossomed in college. Declared for Draft after Sophomore year. Still surprised by fame. Humble. Approachable. Friendly. Fan favorite.

Sounds familiar, but I just can't put my finger on why....

[pcbothwel]

Im tellin you Boom, Barnes is a kid we could easily look back on and wonder why we didnt pick him. If you took all his physical skills as a player along with his measurables you would have a 5-10 overall pick. But his personality is in the quiet and extemely hardworking area much like Kevin Durant and even a little John Wall.

He really wants to be great and he has a lot of natural athleticism that will become more explosive as he gets into the Pro workout routine(focused more on plyometrics/balance). He already can shoot and defend at at Pro level, and his rebounding and passing/court vision are coming along very well. Over the next few years he will settle into his frame and his coordination will get better with hard work thereby increasing his ball-handleing/shot creating ability.

Guys like D.Williams and Barnes will succeed in the NBA 9 out of 10 times. The fact that Barnes can defend at a near elite level (and he has a passion for doing so) gives him the slight edge for me over Williams, but both are quite impressive.

On a side note I was an exercise science major before I switched to getting my Bachelors/Master in Business. The average fan/athlete truly underestimate the benefits of a well designed, strongly performed program built explicitly for athletes. If you doubt me watch that 5'10" Justin Tucker kid who won the college Dunk contest last night. He is an exercise science guy who dedicated himself to explosive/balance/agility work. Its not just how high he jumps, but the body control he uses makes the guy look like a damn ninja.
(And man, Gilbert Brown from Pitt is an impressive specimen. I liked him before and knew he was athletic, but wow.)

[Rafael122]

DX's latest mock. We're picking 3 Euro's. http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bismack Biyombo? Darkest Euro I've ever seen, Raf. Biyombo is from the Congo. He's playing for ACB so he technically is a Euro, I guess. Bojan Bogdanovic? doc, I'll nickname him Mr. Bojangles in your honor.

Alliterative-sounding names might become a trend. Washington could also add Bradford Bishop...

Buck and Phil would get all tongue twisted if all three were in a game at once. Could you imagine trying to pronounce those and not get them confused. Say this together three times fast:

Bismack Biyombo Bojan Bogdanovic Bradford Bishop.

You probably messed up.

[Rafael122]

Bismack Biyombo? Darkest Euro I've ever seen, Raf. Biyombo is from the Congo. He's playing for ACB so he technically is a Euro, I guess. Bojan Bogdanovic? doc, I'll nickname him Mr. Bojangles in your honor.

Alliterative-sounding names might become a trend. Washington could also add Bradford Bishop...

Buck and Phil would get all tongue twisted if all three were in a game at once. Could you imagine trying to pronounce those and not get them confused. Say this together three times fast:

Bismack Biyombo Bojan Bogdanovic Bradford Bishop.

You probably messed up.

Now DX tweeted a few hours ago that it's based on how they rank the prospects not on team needs, which begs the question then why bother with a mock draft at this moment?

[Rafael122]

Chad Ford on Barnes:

UNC's Harrison Barnes continues to be on the fence however. He recently had his exit interview with head coach Roy Williams. In the interview Williams told Barnes that he would go somewhere between No. 5 and 11 in the draft, according to a source familiar with the discussion. I think Barnes will go higher -- likely in the Top 3. The bigger question will be whether Barnes wants to return to a loaded UNC team next year to try to win a championship.

[Dark Faze]

Barnes is a hard worker and I see him being slightly better than Deng as a ceiling. His inability to create off the dribble, the lack of explosion and ball handling...these things can be hard to acquire.

Williams on the otherhand...if he works hard with his tool set then he has clear all-star potential...many would disagree but I could see him being just as important to this team as Wall down the road.

And LOL at that draft express bs...oh wow

[Dat2U]

Im tellin you Boom, Barnes is a kid we could easily look back on and wonder why we didnt pick him. If you took all his physical skills as a player along with his measurables you would have a 5-10 overall pick. But his personality is in the quiet and extemely hardworking area much like Kevin Durant and even a little John Wall.

He really wants to be great and he has a lot of natural athleticism that will become more explosive as he gets into the Pro workout routine(focused more on plyometrics/balance). He already can shoot and defend at at Pro level, and his rebounding and passing/court vision are coming along very well. Over the next few years he will settle into his frame and his coordination will get better with hard work thereby increasing his ball-handleing/shot creating ability.

Guys like D.Williams and Barnes will succeed in the NBA 9 out of 10 times. The fact that Barnes can defend at a near elite level (and he has a passion for doing so) gives him the slight edge for me over Williams, but both are quite impressive.

I've not seen many cases where a player's ball handling, ability to take people off the dribble and first step explosiveness improved from college to the NBA. Either you come into the league with it or you don't have it. There may be exceptions but I'd be hard pressed to name any.

Williams is a rock solid 240 and at least the same height as Barnes. He's a better ball-handler and has better first step explosiveness off the bounce. And at least this past season, he proved to be the better shooter. So Williams is clearly ahead of Barnes in my book and there's no longer any doubt in my mind about Williams ability to play SF. The ability to play SF is why I'm much higher on Williams than before.

Barnes definitely doesn't look like a shot creator to me. Williams can create his own shot. Barnes is a spot up shooter or one coming off of a pick & having screens set for him. Barnes at most is a one to two dribble player and shoot type. And Barnes has struggled to finish around the basket. Williams just looks like the stronger, bigger and more athletic player. I really don't see anything where I'd give the clear advantage over Williams, other than maybe crying in post game interviews.

Williams - Top 3 pick
Barnes - Mid to late lottery pick.

[dobrojim]

I see that DX has Singleton now taken after our 2nd pick.

I'm with those who would be pretty happy with a draft
that included him.

[tontoz]

Bismack Biyombo? Darkest Euro I've ever seen, Raf. Biyombo is from the Congo. He's playing for ACB so he technically is a Euro, I guess. Bojan Bogdanovic? doc, I'll nickname him Mr. Bojangles in your honor.

Alliterative-sounding names might become a trend. Washington could also add Bradford Bishop...

Buck and Phil would get all tongue twisted if all three were in a game at once. Could you imagine trying to pronounce those and not get them confused. Say this together three times fast:

Bismack Biyombo Bojan Bogdanovic Bradford Bishop.

You probably messed up.

Now DX tweeted a few hours ago that it's based on how they rank the prospects not on team needs, which begs the question then why bother with a mock draft at this moment?

They won't know the draft order until after the lottery. There is no reason to take into account team needs at this point. Actually i can't think of any mock draft that is currently taking team needs into account.

[pcbothwel]

I've not seen many cases where a player's ball handling, ability to take people off the dribble and first step explosiveness improved from college to the NBA. Either you come into the league with it or you don't have it. There may be exceptions but I'd be hard pressed to name any.

Williams is a rock solid 240 and at least the same height as Barnes. He's a better ball-handler and has better first step explosiveness off the bounce. And at least this past season, he proved to be the better shooter. So Williams is clearly ahead of Barnes in my book and there's no longer any doubt in my mind about Williams ability to play SF. The ability to play SF is why I'm much higher on Williams than before.

Barnes definitely doesn't look like a shot creator to me. Williams can create his own shot. Barnes is a spot up shooter or one coming off of a pick & having screens set for him. Barnes at most is a one to two dribble player and shoot type. And Barnes has struggled to finish around the basket. Williams just looks like the stronger, bigger and more athletic player. I really don't see anything where I'd give the clear advantage over Williams, other than maybe crying in post game interviews.

Williams - Top 3 pick
Barnes - Mid to late lottery pick.

First, the reason you'd be hard pressed to find exceptions is because most ball players dont put in the work. Most of them do preacher curls and bench press once a week for a "lifting day" and the spend their time "improving" by doing a couple hundred jump shots, i.e. Blatche. A lot of these guys are so much better than there peers growing up that they dont know how to improve their body, whereas collegiate football/hockey players must do so to adjust to the physicality if the mature game. Players like Kobe, MJ, Wade, Bron, Ray, Allen, etc. have taken advantage of this by working on their body's to better handle the physical parts of their sport (attacking the basket, rebounding, defense). Barnes has that quality. Oh, and the phenom himself Lebron was not near the specimen he is now in HS. Youtube his videos now and in HS and you'd see a difference of about 20lbs of muscle and a much faster/more explosive player now. Even look at Gil just before the gun incident when he spent the summer with Grover in Chicago. He looked like a whole new player. (Since then he failed to continue that and he has fallen off hard)

Barnes is 19, not a 23 y/o Senior. He can defintley improve his explosiveness and a lot of wings with long arms take some time to control their handle better(NY is not a "hard worker" and even he tightened up his handle). Oh, and for you to think that Williams could guard a wing better than Barnes is laughable. And have you seen Barnes, I'd bet his body fat is half that of Williams while weighing about 220. Williams is a good athlete, but I would not say "rock solid @ 240". I really like Williams and I would love for us to get him, but for you to downgrade Barnes so much cuz he is not a shot creator at 19 is a little much. Barnes may never be "Elite" in explosiveness/ball handle/ shot creator, but he can and will improve. I guess time will tell.

[kirubel94]

HAHAH roy williams, 5-11 thats not happening,

BtW , Bojan Bogdanovic(reminds me of rudy fernandez) is an interesting player hes like a point forward with good shooting ablity i wouldnt mind him in the second round.

[Benjammin]

HAHAH roy williams, 5-11 thats not happening,

BtW , Bojan Bogdanovic(reminds me of rudy fernandez) is an interesting player hes like a point forward with good shooting ablity i wouldnt mind him in the second round.

Yeah, Roy showing some serious impartiality in a draft this weak stating that Barnes would likely go 5-11. In a stronger draft that would be reasonable but not in this one. Something like 2-7 would have been much more realistic.

[Rafael122]

Barnes is a top 3 player, and will not be on the board at 5 or anywhere after that. Roy's got a stacked team next year anyway, unless Henson, Zeller and Barnes all go pro.

[Dark Faze]

Barnes is 19, not a 23 y/o Senior. He can defintley improve his explosiveness and a lot of wings with long arms take some time to control their handle better(NY is not a "hard worker" and even he tightened up his handle). Oh, and for you to think that Williams could guard a wing better than Barnes is laughable. And have you seen Barnes, I'd bet his body fat is half that of Williams while weighing about 220. Williams is a good athlete, but I would not say "rock solid @ 240". I really like Williams and I would love for us to get him, but for you to downgrade Barnes so much cuz he is not a shot creator at 19 is a little much. Barnes may never be "Elite" in explosiveness/ball handle/ shot creator, but he can and will improve. I guess time will tell.

I haven't seen anything that makes me believe he is any faster than Williams. I don't see any reason to think that Barnes would guard SF's better. Williams uses his weight well, it's the reason he gets to the foul line so often instead of bouncing off of people like Barnes does in the rare amount of times he chooses to actually drive.

I am not low on Barnes as a player--I am low on using a potential top 3 pick on a guy that has tools that you can get fairly easily from free agency. He will work hard and is extremely clutch--but to think that changes him from a clever knockdown SF to a penetrating, dominant scoring second option to Wall is a dream right now, and we HAVE to get guys that be on the front of magazines, tickets, etc. Williams has the flash, IQ, and talent to make that happen right away.

[Ruzious]

When you think about it, Barnes would be a fine addition for the Wiz, because he's a talented player who should fit really well with Wall. The ideal 3 for Wall is a guy who doesn't need the ball to be effective - a volume 3 point shooter who can get 20 points a game, a good athlete, and a very good defender. And he's capable of helping on the boards. You still need a front court stud, but you put yourself in position to get that player within the next 2 offseasons.

[theboomking]

Barnes is 19, not a 23 y/o Senior. He can defintley improve his explosiveness and a lot of wings with long arms take some time to control their handle better(NY is not a "hard worker" and even he tightened up his handle). Oh, and for you to think that Williams could guard a wing better than Barnes is laughable. And have you seen Barnes, I'd bet his body fat is half that of Williams while weighing about 220. Williams is a good athlete, but I would not say "rock solid @ 240". I really like Williams and I would love for us to get him, but for you to downgrade Barnes so much cuz he is not a shot creator at 19 is a little much. Barnes may never be "Elite" in explosiveness/ball handle/ shot creator, but he can and will improve. I guess time will tell.

I haven't seen anything that makes me believe he is any faster than Williams. I don't see any reason to think that Barnes would guard SF's better. Williams uses his weight well, it's the reason he gets to the foul line so often instead of bouncing off of people like Barnes does in the rare amount of times he chooses to actually drive.

How about because Barnes has been guarding 3's all season, while Williams hasn't guarded a wing player for the majority of a single game. I understand that Williams has a lot of upside. I agree that Williams has a better 1st step than Barnes, and is a more explosive athlete. If people argued that Williams is more explosive and can get to the rim better, and draws a lot more FT''s, I would say yes. That is true, maybe he will be a better pro because of it.

My disagreement with your fixation on Williams is that I don't think it is based on accurate observations. You watched Williams for the first time when he played Texas in the tournament. Williams went 4-14, with one of those makes being a lucky circus shot. Derrick struggled to get his shot off against a 6'8" PF, Tristan Thompson, and you were ready to proclaim him to be the best player in the draft, base on that game? Williams killed it against Duke, but followed that up with a 5-13 performance against Uconn. I just don't see that as the kind of tournament performance that should inspire a drool-fest and a 1st overall draft selection.

Williams might be a better pro than Barnes. I like them both a lot. But, Williams does not have a great handle for a SF, and isn't proficient on creating shots off the dribble. Williams is a powerful, cat quick, undersized PF, that can knock down a 3, but has not demonstrated that he can be a wing player, or that he has the size and length to play against NBA 4's. Maybe he will be a great SF. We haven't seen it in the college game. Kevin Love can knock down the 3. Is he a SF? Blake Griffin is cat quick and explosive. Does that make him a SF?

Barnes is very heady, has already shown he can defend the 3, is smooth, comes up huge at the end of games, can create a shot off the dribble whenever he wants, whether it be driving in for a floater, shooting a step back J, or a turnaround. Barnes isn't as explosive as you'd like for a 1st overall pick. He doesn't have a great 1st step or get to the rim or FT line as much as you'd like.

Both players have their strengths and flaws, and I wouldn't be surprised if either one was picked before the other. It isn't as black and white as people on this board make it out to be. Also, we need to remember that we are comparing a freshman HBarnes to a sophomore DWilliams. I'm not sure the conversation on the board would have looked the same last year.

[spaceman_E]

Barnes definitely doesn't look like a shot creator to me. Williams can create his own shot. Barnes is a spot up shooter or one coming off of a pick & having screens set for him. Barnes at most is a one to two dribble player and shoot type. And Barnes has struggled to finish around the basket. Williams just looks like the stronger, bigger and more athletic player. I really don't see anything where I'd give the clear advantage over Williams, other than maybe crying in post game interviews.

Williams - Top 3 pick
Barnes - Mid to late lottery pick.

Except for defense, but don't let 50% of the game get in the way of your argument.