OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THREAD

[JustaKnickFan]

Alright, I guess I'll argue your case. First off, giving all these extremely specific examples on why Lin is great doesn't do that much justice to your point. Plenty of random and not great players have broken those kinds of specific records.

Now, Lin started his season in February while everyone else was coming off the first month of the condensed and brutal lockout season. Lin was fresh while everyone else wasn't. No teams had a chance to scout him either.

The way Lin plays is also a tough way to play. He took a beating playing like that. If he keeps doing that, who knows how much more injuries he'll get. His size also does not help the situation, since he seems like he needs to hit the weight room.

I think 25 games is not enough to justify of giving him a contract that would make him the highest paid player in 3 years.

[daba]

Taken from the Rockets board, but I think it's dead on.
Grunwald got played by Darryl Morey...

Hypothetical - Did Morey deliberately reach a lower agreement w Lin, bait the Knicks into other moves to eat cap, and then lower the Boom by jacking up the Lin deal, thus making it harder to match?

Timeline
Pre July 5 - many reports that Rockets are in negotiations w/ Lin. Terms reported to be as high as $40MM over $4 years, or equivalent to what we offered Dragic.

July 5: Reports come out that Rockets have agreed to terms w Lin for a $5MM/$5MM/$9MM contract. Clutchfans roars in approval at the pricetag, and then immediatly facepalms with the realization that the Knicks will definitely match.

Same day, Knicks reach agreement w Jason Kidd. Statements immediately follow indicating that Kidd is going there to mentor Lin, and Knicks intend to have both of them. Joy in Gotham City.

July 9: Knicks SnT for Marcus Camby, 3yrs, $10MM. In doing so, Knicks send the Rockets Tony Douglas (and pay his salary), since they don't need his ass to backup Lin. Hours later, Knicks sign Steve Novak to 4yr/15MM.

July 11: Knicks sign JR Smith for $2.8MM/1yr.

Then Boom comes the dynomite - Rockets sign Lin to the mega poison pill contract with nearly $15MM guaranteed in year 3.

Analysis
First, the timing is curious.
- After the initial reports of Lin's term sheet being a modest $5MM/$5MM/$9MM structure, the Knicks spend money and land Kidd, SnT for Camby, trade Douglas, sign Novak and JR Smith. I mean, why not -- the Lin contract is just so cheap and reasonable.
- On July 9, when Morey agreed to SnT Camby to the Knicks, I'm guessing the Knicks felt Morey did them a favor by negotiating such a reasonable contract with Lin. Morey seemingly handed Lin to the Knicks on a silver platter, with a 20% off coupon. Why not give our friend David Motet $2MM, our backup PG, a couple of 7 footers and 2 second round picks. I mean, it's the least they could do.

Second, when is the last time that a team reaches an agreement with a RFA, and then offers a significantly richer deal? None comes to mind. Can anyone remember such an instance? Particularly with a high profile player. Ever?

Third, didn't the initial report of Lin's $5MM/$5MM/$9MM offer sheet make us all scratch our heads? I know my initial reaction was -- what's the point? There's not nearly enough poison on this pill to make NY care.

So I ask the question -- Did Maori rig this whole Lin "renegotiation" to bait the Knicks into spending money and make it harder for them to match?

(Underlying this question is whether the Knicks would find it easier to match if they had not done the Kidd, Camby, Novak and Smith deals).

(of course, this is all moot if the Knicks match anyway, but I don't think they will).

If this dude is such a genius, how about he get his team into the playoffs?

Not saying he's a genius, but I do think he pulled one over on the Knicks.

[[GR]]

The fact - the real fact - is that the Rockets re-negotiated their verbal agreement. It's not "bad business" because in this case it actually gave Lin more guaranteed money. How exactly would it be "bad business" to renegotiate a deal for a player to give him more money? It's certainly not "bad business" for Lin to make more money from the Rockets than originally thought.

There's nothing they could've done, if Lin did not want to renegotiate. It's that simple. If you can't grasp that, there's nothing left to say.

Got NY on his neck. RIDE OR DIE

When did you turn into Ice-T?

[Hardaway 10]

What I think people are failing to realize is that Jeremy Lin's run wasn't just good, it was historically special. To make it clear:

-Lin scored more points in his first three, four, and five starts than any player in NBA history since the merger
-Lin was the first player in the NBA history to score 20 points with seven assists in each of his first four starts
-Lin was the first Knick to EVER average 18 PPG and 7 APG in his first 25 NBA starts
-Lin was the youngest player in NBA history to average at least 25 points and eight assists over a five-game span

That's the player we're letting walk away for absolutely nothing tonight. No cap room, no picks, no Chris Paul, nothing.

Yes, Lin had a historic first few games. Did he maintain that after?

Did teams know what he could do? Doubt teams had film on him. Miami got film and embarrassed him. Teams started playing him more physical and he wore down. Wasn't putting up the same #'s.

FWIW, I am all for matching just to maintain a trade asset. The fact that everyone is wondering what the Knicks are thinking letting him walk makes me think there is more to this than just Dolan being butthurt. Lin's knee, bad locker room guy, the religious aspect.....who knows.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

We really need to revisit this thread next summer when JR opts out and starts negotiating with other teams to try and get the Knicks to raise their offer. I have a feeling a lot of people will have to come up with a new way of gauging whether a player wants to be a Knick.

[dantian]

congratulations, mr. jr smith. you got your wish and you will be the boss of nyk this season!

[MaseInYourFace]

Alright, I guess I'll argue your case. First off, giving all these extremely specific examples on why Lin is great doesn't do that much justice to your point. Plenty of random and not great players have broken those kinds of specific records.

Now, Lin started his season in February while everyone else was coming off the first month of the condensed and brutal lockout season. Lin was fresh while everyone else wasn't. No teams had a chance to scout him either.

The way Lin plays is also a tough way to play. He took a beating playing like that. If he keeps doing that, who knows how much more injuries he'll get. His size also does not help the situation, since he seems like he needs to hit the weight room.

I think 25 games is not enough to justify of giving him a contract that would make him the highest paid player in 3 years.

He has good size. Guards who go to the basket take a beating. Its just the nature of the beast. Its unfortunate Kidd won't get to work with him because Kidd was saying he would help Lin play at different speeds and pick his spots better.

[MaseInYourFace]

What I think people are failing to realize is that Jeremy Lin's run wasn't just good, it was historically special. To make it clear:

-Lin scored more points in his first three, four, and five starts than any player in NBA history since the merger
-Lin was the first player in the NBA history to score 20 points with seven assists in each of his first four starts
-Lin was the first Knick to EVER average 18 PPG and 7 APG in his first 25 NBA starts
-Lin was the youngest player in NBA history to average at least 25 points and eight assists over a five-game span

That's the player we're letting walk away for absolutely nothing tonight. No cap room, no picks, no Chris Paul, nothing.

Yes, Lin had a historic first few games. Did he maintain that after?

Did teams know what he could do? Doubt teams had film on him. Miami got film and embarrassed him. Teams started playing him more physical and he wore down. Wasn't putting up the same #'s.

FWIW, I am all for matching just to maintain a trade asset. The fact that everyone is wondering what the Knicks are thinking letting him walk makes me think there is more to this than just Dolan being butthurt. Lin's knee, bad locker room guy, the religious aspect.....who knows.

He didnt have too many bad games.

[kron]

So the guy who opted out and didn't get any good offers is a boss now LOL!

[Kampuchea]

the Rockets overpay for the guy they cut and are a very imbalanced team. I do not think they are managing the team well.

Knicks are looking up though with a great offseason so far

[AllanHoustonFan]

[JustaKnickFan]

What I think people are failing to realize is that Jeremy Lin's run wasn't just good, it was historically special. To make it clear:

-Lin scored more points in his first three, four, and five starts than any player in NBA history since the merger
-Lin was the first player in the NBA history to score 20 points with seven assists in each of his first four starts
-Lin was the first Knick to EVER average 18 PPG and 7 APG in his first 25 NBA starts
-Lin was the youngest player in NBA history to average at least 25 points and eight assists over a five-game span

That's the player we're letting walk away for absolutely nothing tonight. No cap room, no picks, no Chris Paul, nothing.

Yes, Lin had a historic first few games. Did he maintain that after?

Did teams know what he could do? Doubt teams had film on him. Miami got film and embarrassed him. Teams started playing him more physical and he wore down. Wasn't putting up the same #'s.

FWIW, I am all for matching just to maintain a trade asset. The fact that everyone is wondering what the Knicks are thinking letting him walk makes me think there is more to this than just Dolan being butthurt. Lin's knee, bad locker room guy, the religious aspect.....who knows.

He didnt have too many bad games.

He kinda did against NO, MIA, BOS, DAL, PHI, POR, DET, and PHI.

[lazyskillz]

Alright, I guess I'll argue your case. First off, giving all these extremely specific examples on why Lin is great doesn't do that much justice to your point. Plenty of random and not great players have broken those kinds of specific records.

Now, Lin started his season in February while everyone else was coming off the first month of the condensed and brutal lockout season. Lin was fresh while everyone else wasn't. No teams had a chance to scout him either.

The way Lin plays is also a tough way to play. He took a beating playing like that. If he keeps doing that, who knows how much more injuries he'll get. His size also does not help the situation, since he seems like he needs to hit the weight room.

I think 25 games is not enough to justify of giving him a contract that would make him the highest paid player in 3 years.

You can't even argue with these guys because they can't even get their facts right. NO WHERE is it stated Lin is going to the the "highest paid player in 3 years".

These are the genius Knicks fans Dolan expects to pay the rising ticket prices.

[JustaKnickFan]

Alright, I guess I'll argue your case. First off, giving all these extremely specific examples on why Lin is great doesn't do that much justice to your point. Plenty of random and not great players have broken those kinds of specific records.

Now, Lin started his season in February while everyone else was coming off the first month of the condensed and brutal lockout season. Lin was fresh while everyone else wasn't. No teams had a chance to scout him either.

The way Lin plays is also a tough way to play. He took a beating playing like that. If he keeps doing that, who knows how much more injuries he'll get. His size also does not help the situation, since he seems like he needs to hit the weight room.

I think 25 games is not enough to justify of giving him a contract that would make him the highest paid player in 3 years.

You can't even argue with these guys because they can't even get their facts right. NO WHERE is it stated Lin is going to the the "highest paid player in 3 years".

These are the genius Knicks fans Dolan expects to pay the rising ticket prices.

With the luxury tax, in year 3 of the contract the Knicks are paying 30m for Lin.

[Hodges4Three]

What I think people are failing to realize is that Jeremy Lin's run wasn't just good, it was historically special. To make it clear:

-Lin scored more points in his first three, four, and five starts than any player in NBA history since the merger
-Lin was the first player in the NBA history to score 20 points with seven assists in each of his first four starts
-Lin was the first Knick to EVER average 18 PPG and 7 APG in his first 25 NBA starts
-Lin was the youngest player in NBA history to average at least 25 points and eight assists over a five-game span

That's the player we're letting walk away for absolutely nothing tonight. No cap room, no picks, no Chris Paul, nothing.

Yes, Lin had a historic first few games. Did he maintain that after?

Did teams know what he could do? Doubt teams had film on him. Miami got film and embarrassed him. Teams started playing him more physical and he wore down. Wasn't putting up the same #'s.

FWIW, I am all for matching just to maintain a trade asset. The fact that everyone is wondering what the Knicks are thinking letting him walk makes me think there is more to this than just Dolan being butthurt. Lin's knee, bad locker room guy, the religious aspect.....who knows.

Why does everyone bring up the Miami game where he was supposedly "exposed" but then ignore the his good games AFTER:

19 pts 13 assists 5 rebounds vs Cleveland immediately after
20 pts 4 assists 3 steals vs Spurs
20 pts 13 assists 4 steals vs Milwaukee
15 pts 8 assists 3 blocks 3 steals vs Chicago (most those steals and blocks on Rose)
19 pts 6 assists 7 rebounds vs Indiana
18 pts 10 assists vs Toronto
18 pts 4 assists 5 rebounds vs Philly, shot poorly but was 10/10 FT bailing NY out in the 4th

Keep in mind Lin was playing reduced minutes, WITH Melo, under Woodson, and was likely playing on an injured knee for many of these games. Of course he wasn't putting up LINSANITY numbers, he was deferring to Melo and was taking far less attempts per game. Given that he still put up great numbers.

Does an "exposed" player put up games like this after? Or is Miami the only team who knows how to read scouting reports?

[Mr_Perfect]

There's nothing they could've done, if Lin did not want to renegotiate. It's that simple. If you can't grasp that, there's nothing left to say.

You are saying Lin should have turned down guaranteed money from the Rockets for a worse contract offer? You're delusional dude.

I'm glad you found your way out of the argument by using this line. You have failed wholeheartedly in this entire thread. Please go back to not making sense on other topics.

[lazyskillz]

Alright, I guess I'll argue your case. First off, giving all these extremely specific examples on why Lin is great doesn't do that much justice to your point. Plenty of random and not great players have broken those kinds of specific records.

Now, Lin started his season in February while everyone else was coming off the first month of the condensed and brutal lockout season. Lin was fresh while everyone else wasn't. No teams had a chance to scout him either.

The way Lin plays is also a tough way to play. He took a beating playing like that. If he keeps doing that, who knows how much more injuries he'll get. His size also does not help the situation, since he seems like he needs to hit the weight room.

I think 25 games is not enough to justify of giving him a contract that would make him the highest paid player in 3 years.

You can't even argue with these guys because they can't even get their facts right. NO WHERE is it stated Lin is going to the the "highest paid player in 3 years".

These are the genius Knicks fans Dolan expects to pay the rising ticket prices.

With the luxury tax, in year 3 of the contract the Knicks are paying 30m for Lin.

You do know the $30 million DOESN'T go to Lin? He will be paid $14 mil in year 2015. Melo and Amare are making $20 mil each. Any luxury tax payment from the Knicks goes to the NBA.

You can't be serious.

[iLLSonChandla]

All you Lin #@!%riders need to exit stage left.


Rockets board is --------------------> way

[madbucky]

With the luxury tax, in year 3 of the contract the Knicks are paying 30m for Lin.

No, the Knicks would be paying Lin $14.9M, which would be 4th highest on the Knicks.

If the Knicks' payroll is over the cap in 2014/15, then they have to pay luxury tax to the rest of the league. The luxury tax is not for an individual player's contract, it's for the entire team's payroll. It doesn't matter if one player is making $15M or 3 players are making $5M.

[Mr_Perfect]

All you Lin #@!%riders need to exit stage left.


Rockets board is --------------------> way

Did you graduate high school?