Paul George vs Carmelo Anthony?

[Nuntius]

OKC lost in 5 games with most of their players playing up to par. NYK lost in 6 games with a lot of their players playing below their par. That alone tells me that despite the fact that Durant's numbers may have been slightly better Carmelo's play was just as effective as durant's was against an equal defensive team.

OKC's players played up to par?

That's just not true.

Serge Ibaka was horrible in the OKC series.

Ibaka scored 13.2 PPG on 61.2% TS in the RS.

In the Memphis series, he scored 12.8 PPG on 42.7% TS.

That was just horrible.

Kendrick Perkins averaged 2.4 PPG and 2.0 Turnovers in that series. He had an 28% Turnover Ratio while having a 14.4% Usage Ratio for god's shake. He posted a 55 ORtg which was a record low in league history for a player playing his minutes. He also posted a 23.3% TS.

Oh, and he was also playing without Westbrook. Reggie Jackson tried but he's nowhere near Westbrook.

Durant's team played horrible. He only had 2 solid offensive options. Nick Collison who averaged 5.2 Fouls in 17.7 MPG and thus could not play and Kevin Martin who is a huge defensive liablity.

[MeloMIracle]

OKC lost in 5 games with most of their players playing up to par. NYK lost in 6 games with a lot of their players playing below their par. That alone tells me that despite the fact that Durant's numbers may have been slightly better Carmelo's play was just as effective as durant's was against an equal defensive team.

OKC's players played up to par?

That's just not true.

Serge Ibaka was horrible in the OKC series.

Ibaka scored 13.2 PPG on 61.2% TS in the RS.

In the Memphis series, he scored 12.8 PPG on 42.7% TS.

That was just horrible.

Kendrick Perkins averaged 2.4 PPG and 2.0 Turnovers in that series. He had an 28% Turnover Ratio while having a 14.4% Usage Ratio for god's shake. He posted a 55 ORtg which was a record low in league history for a player playing his minutes. He also posted a 23.3% TS.

Oh, and he was also playing without Westbrook. Reggie Jackson tried but he's nowhere near Westbrook.

Durant's team played horrible. He only had 2 solid offensive options. Nick Collison who averaged 5.2 Fouls in 17.7 MPG and thus could not play and Kevin Martin who is a huge defensive liablity.

I disagree, I think Reggie Jackson was their mvp in the games where Kevin Durant was choking.

[Nuntius]

And Melo creates a ton of shots for his teammates. Probably just as much as KD if not more. Assists and created looks are nowhere near the same thing.

They have a correlation, though.

[Nuntius]

The Pacers aren't creating good looks right now though. The Pacers offense is the 20th ranked offense. There's no way Melo doesn't help that. He makes tough shots at a higher rate than Indiana does right now.

Actually, in the Miami series we have been able to create tons of good looks. Our ORtg in the series would actually lead the league.

The Pacers are not interested in hitting tough shots. That's not our play style.

We're interested in exploiting mismatches. We create those mismatches due to our superior size and want to create easy looks based on that. To do this, we need to move the ball.

We cannot do this if we go iso. That's why our offense fails when it goes iso. We aren't an iso team and we shouldn't attempt to be one.

NY was the third ranked offense this year. Atlanta was the number one offense the year they got Crawford. His system has led to many great offenses and if he knew how to adjust to his opponents in the playoffs I'd even say he was a great offensive coach.

Then maybe his offensive system isn't fit for the playoffs?

No they lost because other than Melo no one showed up. Prigioni played 20 minutes a game and averaged 3/1/4. Not bad from a playmaking stand point and he was way better than Kidd (who played 15 minutes a game and put up 0/2/2). Felton on the other hand had a chance and is on the long list of reasons why they lost. He averaged 11/3/4 on 41% shooting (47 TS). In the last 4 games of the series Felton had a 35 TS%. They didn't lose because 2 below average point guards didn't touch the ball. They lost because JR couldn't hit any shots (open, guarded, off the dribble, catch and shoot...). In that series a Melo iso was more efficient than anything else they tried.

Again, I'm not trying to blame Melo for NYK's loss. He wasn't the reason that you lost the series. But Woodson was a big part of the reason.

Woodson reverted to his ISO offense way too easy. As a Pacer fan, I was worried when Prigioni had the ball in his hands. I knew that he was able to create good looks and that he would cause us trouble. I was worried in that 3rd half when Shumpert and Copeland were hitting 3s.

But I wasn't worried when Woodson took the ball away from their hands in the 4th quarter. I wasn't worried when he was screaming "give the ball to Melo". I know that we're able to defend ISOs. Our defense is vulnerable when the opponent moves the ball and Woodson nullified that by reverting to ISO.

Melo played the Pacers (1st ranked defense) and the Celtics (7th ranked: 4th in games Garnett played). Comparing that to playing Houston (16th ranked) is unfair.

KD had more help than Melo and still averaged 28.8/10.6/6.6 in 45.7 mpg (22.7 pp36, 12.9 trb%, 34.1 ast%) against Memphis. Great performance but he also had a 53.1 TS and a 103 ORTG (overall he was +3 against them).

Melo averaged 28.5/7.8/1.3 in 38.9 mpg (26.4 pp36, 12.1 trb%, 7.9 ast%) against Indiana. He had a 51.3 TS% and a 102 ORTG (making him +2 overall).

Not much different performances. KD had way higher raw numbers but he scored at a way lower rate, rebounded about even, and had better teammates.

I already explained why KD didn't have more help than Melo. As bad as Melo's teammates were, KD's teammates were abominations. Still, KD helped them score way more than Melo.

Edit: Wanted to write "KD" but wrote "Melo" instead.

[E-Balla]

And Melo creates a ton of shots for his teammates. Probably just as much as KD if not more. Assists and created looks are nowhere near the same thing.

They have a correlation, though.

Not really. I can't pull up the article because the websites down but there was a study on created shots once. Rondo came out as the most overrated by assists (not many created shots but a lot of assists) and Dirk came out as the most underrated (a lot of created shots, a little assists). Melo came out in the top 10 in that study in created looks tied at 9th with Tony Parker at 9.7 created looks a game iirc.

[Nuntius]

Not really. I can't pull up the article because the websites down but there was a study on created shots once. Rondo came out as the most overrated by assists (not many created shots but a lot of assists) and Dirk came out as the most underrated (a lot of created shots, a little assists). Melo came out in the top 10 in that study in created looks tied at 9th with Tony Parker at 9.7 created looks a game iirc.

Interesting. I'd really want to take a look at this article.

However, I do believe that there is a direct correlation between created shots and assists.

[bondom34]

Not really. I can't pull up the article because the websites down but there was a study on created shots once. Rondo came out as the most overrated by assists (not many created shots but a lot of assists) and Dirk came out as the most underrated (a lot of created shots, a little assists). Melo came out in the top 10 in that study in created looks tied at 9th with Tony Parker at 9.7 created looks a game iirc.

Interesting. I'd really want to take a look at this article.

However, I do believe that there is a direct correlation between created shots and assists.

Not sure if this is the article, but if its the one ElGee wrote, here's a thread he posted it in (on Page 3):
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1249825&start=30

Rates Rondo as creating few shots, Brandon Roy and Dirk more.

[E-Balla]

We cannot do this if we go iso. That's why our offense fails when it goes iso. We aren't an iso team and we shouldn't attempt to be one.

No it's because the Pacers have some of the worst iso players in the league. George averages .76 ppp on isos. Melo averages .89. Pacers as a team average .69 (29th in the league). Melo would change that.

Then maybe his offensive system isn't fit for the playoffs?

Possible but he stuck some of the best players on the bench and still played Kidd and JR.

Woodson reverted to his ISO offense way too easy. As a Pacer fan, I was worried when Prigioni had the ball in his hands. I knew that he was able to create good looks and that he would cause us trouble. I was worried in that 3rd half when Shumpert and Copeland were hitting 3s.

That same 3rd quarter opened with Melo scoring 13 of NY's first 15 of the half to keep them in the game (isos). Prig didn't play at all and Shump was playing like crap until he hit those threes.

Melo was benched in the beginning of the 4th and they fell down by 6 when he got back in. They needed him to iso because ball movement only works when you hit shots. They weren't. IDK what game you watched but you obviously didn't notice that all NY did successfully was iso that game.

I already explained why Melo didn't have more help than Melo. As bad as Melo's teammates were, KD's teammates were abominations. Still, KD helped them score way more than Melo.

Let's look at Kd's teammates and Melo's:

Felton (11/3/4, 47TS) or Jackson (14/6/4, 58TS)
JR (13.5/5/1.5, 40TS) or Martin (14.5/3.5/1, 53 TS)

Now your probably going to say OKC's bigs played like crap but this is the first time we've seen those guys without WB. They might suck without Westbrook feeding them.

[E-Balla]

Not really. I can't pull up the article because the websites down but there was a study on created shots once. Rondo came out as the most overrated by assists (not many created shots but a lot of assists) and Dirk came out as the most underrated (a lot of created shots, a little assists). Melo came out in the top 10 in that study in created looks tied at 9th with Tony Parker at 9.7 created looks a game iirc.

Interesting. I'd really want to take a look at this article.

However, I do believe that there is a direct correlation between created shots and assists.

Not sure if this is the article, but if its the one ElGee wrote, here's a thread he posted it in (on Page 3):
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1249825&start=30

Rates Rondo as creating few shots, Brandon Roy and Dirk more.

That's it but Backpicks is down.

[Nuntius]

Not really. I can't pull up the article because the websites down but there was a study on created shots once. Rondo came out as the most overrated by assists (not many created shots but a lot of assists) and Dirk came out as the most underrated (a lot of created shots, a little assists). Melo came out in the top 10 in that study in created looks tied at 9th with Tony Parker at 9.7 created looks a game iirc.

Interesting. I'd really want to take a look at this article.

However, I do believe that there is a direct correlation between created shots and assists.

Not sure if this is the article, but if its the one ElGee wrote, here's a thread he posted it in (on Page 3):
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1249825&start=30

Rates Rondo as creating few shots, Brandon Roy and Dirk more.

I see. I'll read it. Thanks for the link

[Nuntius]

No it's because the Pacers have some of the worst iso players in the league. George averages .76 ppp on isos. Melo averages .89. Pacers as a team average .69 (29th in the league). Melo would change that.

It's definitely true that our players are not good at ISOs.

But it's also true that an offense that revolves around ISOs does not work come playoff time.

So, why would we want to play ISO? We can do better than that.

Possible but he stuck some of the best players on the bench and still played Kidd and JR.

He stuck some of his best players on the bench because playing them would require him to go away from ISO offense.

That same 3rd quarter opened with Melo scoring 13 of NY's first 15 of the half to keep them in the game (isos). Prig didn't play at all and Shump was playing like crap until he hit those threes.

Melo was benched in the beginning of the 4th and they fell down by 6 when he got back in. They needed him to iso because ball movement only works when you hit shots. They weren't. IDK what game you watched but you obviously didn't notice that all NY did successfully was iso that game.

NY wasn't ISOing when Shumpert and Copeland were hitting those 3s. They were moving the ball.

Let's look at Kd's teammates and Melo's:

Felton (11/3/4, 47TS) or Jackson (14/6/4, 58TS)
JR (13.5/5/1.5, 40TS) or Martin (14.5/3.5/1, 53 TS)

Now your probably going to say OKC's bigs played like crap but this is the first time we've seen those guys without WB. They might suck without Westbrook feeding them.

Iman Shumpert: 9.7 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 1.3 APG. 47.8% TS.

OR

Thabo Sefolosha: 4.6 PPG 3.4 RPG, 1.4 APG. 44.3% TS.

---

Chris Copeland: 6.2 PPG, 1.3 RPG, 0.5 TPG. 71.5% TS.

OR

Kendrick Perkins (his stats were posted in a previous post).

Also, one cannot overstate how awful Kevin Martin is as a defender. He is a HUGE liability. Bigger than JR was and JR was bad defensively. Kevin Martin is just much, much worse.

[Nuntius]

By the way, I read ElGee's post in that thread.

Excellent stuff. He is right about Rondo. Differences react differently on players that are a threat to shoot.

[bondom34]

Yeah, I really enjoyed that read, interesting analysis and shows how well guys really produce w/in the offense, shows how much of a bummer B Roys injury issues were too.

[JordansBulls]

Would the Pacers had been considered legit contenders from the beginning of the season with Melo instead of George at SF?

[MeloMIracle]

Would the Pacers had been considered legit contenders from the beginning of the season with Melo instead of George at SF?

Ya they would be in the finals up 1-0 right now.

[HeartBreakKid]

I actually think if Carmelo and George swapped places, both the Pacers and Knicks would be worse than they are now.

[JordansBulls]

I actually think if Carmelo and George swapped places, both the Pacers and Knicks would be worse than they are now.

No way. The Pacers would be significantly better. Hibbert, West compliment Melo well.

[Nuntius]

I actually think if Carmelo and George swapped places, both the Pacers and Knicks would be worse than they are now.

No way. The Pacers would be significantly better. Hibbert, West compliment Melo well.

West and Melo tend to occupy the same spots offensively.

[JordansBulls]

I actually think if Carmelo and George swapped places, both the Pacers and Knicks would be worse than they are now.

No way. The Pacers would be significantly better. Hibbert, West compliment Melo well.

West and Melo tend to occupy the same spots offensively.

West would need to play more down low with Melo on the squad. BTW who do you think is the better shooter?

[Nuntius]

No way. The Pacers would be significantly better. Hibbert, West compliment Melo well.

West and Melo tend to occupy the same spots offensively.

West would need to play more down low with Melo on the squad. BTW who do you think is the better shooter?

But if West would play more down low then where would Hibbert play?

It would create some spacing problems. Those problems wouldn't be as big as they are in New York, of course, but it would still be a problem.

As for your second question. You're asking who is the better shooter between West and Melo?

Well, according to B-R has only shot above 40% in Jump Shots once. He did in this past season. On the other hand, West has shot above 40% in Jump Shots in 8 of his 10 seasons (he didn't shoot well in his first two seasons but has was playing below 20 MPG as well).

So, West's jumper seems to fall through the hoop more often than Melo's. But I don't believe that this really answers the question.

Melo has 3 point range while West doesn't. Also, Melo is taking a lot more shots under pressure as the 1st option which hurts his percentages. Then again that could be just bad shot selection.